Discussion on labels

[dmallind]

As a follow on to the survey and my resulting poll a question arises that is worth discussion

Other than the obvious stigma and possible repercussions, what other reasons are there why so few seemingly are willing to use the word atheist to describe themselves as nonbelievers?

Even if we dispute the survey linked here http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/documents/aris030609.pdf as to methodology or definitions, it is hardly the first to show a much smaller ratio using the word atheist to accurately describe themselves than those who prefer other labels such as "secular" or "nonbeliever" or "no interest" etc.

Is it just the carefully constructed and constantly reinforced negative loading of the word as used by the believing majority? Or are we facing other reasons for lack of acceptability such as simple ignorance of terminology, or a desire to avoid offending, or hedge bets etc?

Why do so few atheists accept that they are atheists?

[darkstar3]

1. I'll take all of the above.

By far the biggest hurdle atheists have to accepting their atheism is the set of negative connotations that have been heaped onto the word over the years. The source of that set of negative connotations can be easily traced back to Christianity, here in the US, but what's most important to realize is the reason why the connotations stick. People are ignorant of what the term really means. People are terrified that if they don't "go along to get along" they'll end up left behind the pack and alone. Most importantly, people are conditioned in our society to fear death, to fear the unknown, and to flee from infinite possibility. Accepting one's atheism requires deep contemplation of things most people are afraid to inspect too closely.

Let me put it another way...Aside from all the shit people say about us, to be atheists we must do the following:

Accept that we are responsible for every aspect of our lives.
Accept that we don't know shit about the afterlife and that one day we may well die, for good.
Accept that we don't know why we're here, and more importantly that there may be no rhyme or reason to our existence.
Accept that we are not special, that we are not somehow chosen in the mind of an ultimate being, that we are insignificant in the scope of the universe.
And after all of that, to "get up in the morning and go to fuckin' work."

In short, there's quite a lot of growing up involved.

[lazarus]

2. it's the negative load

the same reason people now claim to be progressive instead of liberal. Atheist has been defined as solely consisting of strong atheism, whilst most atheists are weak atheists (don't believe vs believe there is not a god).

I think the same thing explains why so many opt for the wishy-washy "agnostic", too.

[rrneck]

3. Well, lets see what you think.

You are free to apply any label you want. I guarantee you won't hurt my feelings.

I have no use whatsoever for every organized religion on the face of the earth. None of 'em. Sooner or later every last damn one of them winds up feeding off the people they are supposed to serve.

There is no proof of any deity, there never has been, there never will be.

I have enjoyed the pleasure of near crippling depression for most of my life. I can't begin to count the number of days that I have opened my eyes in the morning wanting to die. At that moment there is no hope. There is no faith in anything or anyone. But I'm not dead yet. It might well be said that I create a new god every day because I generate my own hope out of wit, spit and grit. Or maybe just out of habit. I don't know.

So, what am I creating here that gets me through the day? Am I an atheist because I have no use for anybody else's god? Am I a true believer because I manufacture hope whole cloth when I wake up every morning? I really don't know. And I'm not too worried about it.

What am I?

[lazarus]

4. you're an atheist

unless you want to start defining god as "hope".

[rrneck]

9. Well, if I'm an atheist I'm in good company.

Of course, in a world where all you have to do is repeat the same ritual more than once and get somebody else to do it with you to create a religion, and hence a god, it's not too hard to imagine calling hope "god". I guess that's what prompted the question. For all I know, my daily ritual could be how people make gods, they just don't notice it because it comes naturally.

[dmallind]

7. Your challenges, while harrowing, are irrelevant to be honest

The only thing that matters here is one simple question. Do you have any belief in the existence of gods? If yes you are a theist. If no you are an atheist, What you think about religions or the quality of proof is incidental at best to the basic question, as is what you hope or wish for. Atheism vs. theism is only concerned with belief.

[rrneck]

10. Like I said above,

if I'm an atheist, I'm in good company.

I guess what prompted the question is that since I have been posting here I have found myself arguing in favor of faith, which was a bit of a surprise since I spend a fair bit of time and foul language on references to religion in general deities in particular.

I was thinking that maybe I do by force of will what most people do naturally. I just happen to notice it because of my brain chemistry.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack your thread. Thanks for the honest answer. Maybe I'll take the question over to the christian forum and see if I get cussed.

[realisticphish]

5. there's no turning back

or at least, that's the assumption. When you're a "non-believer" or "agnostic," you can still feel at least vaguely connected with your old faith. "Non-practicing religionist." When you finally call yourself an atheist, you're cutting the ties.

It's all semantics, obviously, but there's a legitimate concern for some people. In many parts of America, and the world in general, the word "atheist" gets the same reaction as "child molester." For them, atheism is just this massive cloud of evil, and no one ever thinks about what it actually means.

I've only recently finally admitted to myself that I'm an atheist, and have been for a while. It really is hard to make that final leap, even when there's no shred of belief left.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

6. If I admitted to my atheism in public, I would be out of work

I learned a long time ago not to broadcast it too openly because of the potential repercussions. That's why I like the anonymity of DU, where I'm free to express my frustrations over my lack of acceptance in the real world were I to come out of the closet, so to speak, regarding my lack of belief.

[trotsky]

12. Yup.

And the most frustrating part is the huge number of Christians right here on DU (not to mention more than a few "athiests") who are in absolute denial that being "out" about one's atheism could cause any kind of social problems.

There's a reason a lot of us are vocal and opinionated on the Internet - we have to stifle it everywhere else we go.

[darkstar3]

13. They're not in denial, they're flat out blind.

They express their belief every day in their places of work, play, and sleep. They're trained to from an early age, and here in the Bible belt they're louder about it than in some other places. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "praise the lord" used as a form of punctuation at work. Half the people in my office go to the same church and have lengthy discussions about last Sunday's sermon during lunch and break times.

My point: Privilege. They sit in a position of incredible religious privilege, and they simply don't see that people who disagree with them are marginalized and even persecuted (with job loss and other things). They are blind, and they are trained weekly to remain blind.

[realisticphish]

14. this

it's a casual thing. It's just assumed that everyone is a christian. If you speak up, you're being "obnoxious." Even here, in a fairly liberal college town, I've heard otherwise normal-acting people suddenly bust into witnessing, and I'm expected to just go along with it. If I don't, I'm violating their religious freedom, or something.

[Odin2005]

17. heh, I say phrases like "oh good God in heaven" and "OMG" out of habit and social convention.

[mr blur]

15. As a Brit I find this astonishing.

I can't imagine anyone I've ever worked for/with caring whether or not I believe in gods.

[awoke_in_2003]

16. you come from

a relatively civilized country. This country is still backwoods stupid.

[iris27]

8. "I'm not a feminist, but..."

It's the same sort of phenomenon, IMO. People associate both words with all sorts of negativity and militancy that are neither relevant nor present in most people who accept those labels as self-identification.

[YankeyMCC]

11. I call myself atheists however,

only when asked specifically about a belief in gods. The word means that I don't hold certain beliefs which isn't really an effective label in describing myself to others. I'd rather talk about what I am, what I do, what I believe, what I do have faith in, such as myself, scientific method, loved ones, compassion, shared humanity, etc...

[Odin2005]

18. Social stigma.

Coming out openly as an Atheist could get you fired, ostracized, and even assaulted. I've heard many stores of teens getting thrown out of the house and disowned when they came out as atheists.