Odd question probably regarding velocity and stopping power...'60's era...

[6th Borough]

What would a 1960's era 30-30 Remington soft point "Core-Lokt" cartridge compare to, considering modern cartridge design? 170 gr. high velocity center-fire "Kleanbore Priming"?

I'm looking to purchase some...well, slightly less than 30-40 year old rounds for my old Marlin centerfire rifle.

Thanks in advance!

[6th Borough]

1. Actually, the rifle in question might not be a Marlin...

It's stamped Winchester-94-30-30-Win.; New Haven, Conn.

To make a long story short, I've target shot with a 20-cal bolt action; this gun has recently been passed down to me and I want to take it down to the range...without using 40 year old cartridges ;-)

What modern cartridge would be best suited for this particular gun?

[madmom]

3. I follow now...

This is a model 1894 winchester lever action rifle.You need to find out the date of manufacture.This rifle is still being made but the first ones made are for black powder.You could have a valueable collecter here.Anything pre-1964 is a collecter.

[6th Borough]

7. Thanks for the info...could I find out the manufacture date by the serial

Yea, I've looked up...aka Googled... the specific rifle (the semi-famous "cowboy" rifle) and noticed a significant drop in quality in the '70's, if not before. And you are correct, it's lever action (forgot to mention that).

Is it possible to date it the firearm by the serial # stamped on the barrel? (I assume it is some sort of serial #...in any case, it's numbered).

Honestly, I've just target shot and hunted fowl; I don't know much about rifle heritage x(

[goju]

8. Find manufacture date here...

http://oldguns.net/sn_php/winmods.htm

I have a 94 also. Mine is was man. in 1953. Its well used but still in very good working condition. Depending on the stock and blueing etc, they can go as high as $700 .Of course, if its in perfect condition, you might get more but most used, but well cared for rifles can fetch between $300 and $700.

Take care of it.

[madmom]

5. Also ...

use only flat nosed bullets.Pointed bullets loaded in a tube magazine can fire each other off in the tube when the rifle recoils.

[madmom]

2. Pretty old stuff...

if it were stored in a controled environment(under 80 degrees F)it could be O.K.The best way to tell without shooting it is use a bullet puller (kinetic style is best)and smell the powder, if it smells acidic the powder has deteriorated.The higher the heat the faster the deterioration.I wouldn't waste my time or money on this.

[MrSandman]

4. If the rifle fired the Kleanbore ammo...

By design, any modern .30-30 should work. If it has been out of service a long while, I would have a competent gunsmith examine it.

[Squatch]

6. Buy new ammo.

Results with ammo that old can be unpredicatable.

[iverglas]

9. missed it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x95935

[Retired AF Dem]

10. Sure did

we were to busy hugging our guns.

[MrSandman]

11. lol...nt

[cms]

21. Nope...we just like to piss you off...

n/t

[virginia mountainman]

12. older ammunition

40 year old ammo will be fine for plinking around with; I fire LOTS of WWII era Military surplus ammunition, In .303, 30-06, 7.62 x 54R, and 8MM Mauser.

And it is 60 years old!

I order it in case lots, the .303 is dated on the head stamp, M VII 1941 to 1945 means, (Mark 7 Ball, “High Velocity Steel Core FMJ) it is loaded HOT, with Cordite powder!! WOW, what a BLAST!! BUT, about 1 or 2 rounds out of every hundred are duds

FUN AND CHEAP to shoot up!! Would never stake my life on it tho

Some of the 8mm ammo has swastika head stamps on it!! It is loaded hotter than modern store bought ammo also, but you are hindered with the FMJ bullet, cant hunt with it, but you can shoot it up as with the .303, expect a dud or 2

The 30-06 is mostly post Korea (1950’s) now, good stuff; as it ALWAYS goes “BOOM” would stake my life on it.

REMEMBER old surplus ammunition (pre 1950) is CORROSIVE; you MUST boil out the actions and barrels of you guns when you clean them.

Remington Core-lokts are good stuff, I would fire it at the range, but I would not hunt with it out deference to it age , the reference to “klean bore priming” is stating it is NON corrosive and will just need standard clean procedures after firing, no need to boil water for that ammo!

Most all “store bought’ Ammo for a 30-30 will be round nose, that will not be an issue, most 30-30’s use tubular magazines and a pointed bullet, is a disaster waiting to happen, if YOU do get some pointed rounds, they are around for the SINGLE shot 30-30’s. you can fire them, just put one in the chamber, and ONLY ONE in the tube, and you will be fine!

I would consider those rounds modern, as the state of the art in ammunition does not move rapidly.

[madmom]

13. Welcome Virginia mountainman...

Maryland mountainwomen here.Lots of good stuff in your post ,but not for a novice shooter.Old ammo as you and I know can be shot safely by a knowledgeable shooter.What does a beginner do when the round he shoots just goes phffft.He or she jacks another round in and pulls the trigger.Now we have a bullet stuck in the barrel about half way down and another on the way.Gun safety 101 NEVER SHOOT AN OBSTRUCTED BORE.Not worth it imho.Also ammo tech has moved in leaps and bounds in the last 10 yrs.Polymer tips,extreme powders,just to name two.

[NorthernSpy]

14. what would happen if...

What does a beginner do when the round he shoots just goes phffft.He or she jacks another round in and pulls the trigger.Now we have a bullet stuck in the barrel about half way down and another on the way.Gun safety 101 NEVER SHOOT AN OBSTRUCTED BORE.Not worth it imho.

Okay, but what would happen if you did it anyway? Would the gun, like, blow up or something?

:think:

[madmom]

15. yes n/t

[NorthernSpy]

18. have you ever seen that happen?

I think I'd have a heart attack.

[aikoaiko]

16. Kaboom!!!

Yep, even a small obstruction like dirt or sand (let alone a snug bullet) could potentially cause the barrel to open up like a banana.

Thats when you want you firearm to be made of steel and not plastic. (no offense intended to polymer guns -- i have them too).

[NorthernSpy]

17. must remember not to do that, then...

Yep, even a small obstruction like dirt or sand (let alone a snug bullet) could potentially cause the barrel to open up like a banana.

:think: Yikes!

Thats when you want you firearm to be made of steel and not plastic. (no offense intended to polymer guns -- i have them too).

Plastic guns? Why make guns of plastic -- to reduce the weight?

Are those the ones that supposedly won't set off metal detectors?

[aikoaiko]

19. Glock made it famous and popular to produce models with plastic frames

It does reduce weight and most of the time the plastic will hold up even under a kaboom situation. But if a kaboom ever happens, I hope its not with a plastic frame gun. Sometimes people tease Glock owners because of the potential for nasty kabooms.


FYI: No gun on the market in the US is completely made of plastic, of course. Although I think they are always looking for a better "mousetrap".

[virginia mountainman]

20. info

Thanks for the warm welcome!!

The “pffffttt” rounds, yea, after one of those, you ALWAYS check the bore! I have been lucky, in nearly 25 years of shooting; I have never had a bullet stuck in the bore.


The duds, I am talking about don’t do ANYTHING, you hold the rifle with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction for a few minuets, just in case it is a HANG fire, I have had one to go off about 45 seconds after the trigger was pulled, after a few minutes of holding it and it not going off, I lay the rifle on the ground, with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and I don’t touch it for at least 15 minuets.

I don’t worry about the finish on MOST of my firearms; most of them are PRE-Korean vintage military weapons, most are bolt action, and nearly all have seen service! So dents and dings add character!

LOL, I don’t really “dig” newer firearms, except for what I carry for self defensive purposes (Kimber 1911 .45) new rifles with scopes do NOTHING for me. But with the old military rifles, you really can feel the history when you hold them, and fire them.

It is a shame that some in our party hate them and us that own them with a passion, just think of all the votes that could be won if they fought to defend the 2nd Amendment like the do the 1st.

As for guns exploding, plastic or steel, they BOTH go “BOOM” and fragment!!

Watch out for bore obstructions, which can make for a really bad day!!!!

AS for the “plastic gun” BS our party loves so much, the Glocks actually have a much HIGHER steel content in the Barrel, and Slide, than a normally produced auto pistol's barrel and slide, IMPOSSIBLE to sneak thru a metal detector.

When our leaders start talking about “Plastic Guns” and “Assault Rifles” I hang my head in SHAME.

Andrew