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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:55 AM
Original message
Kerry on universal broadband and internet
I never heard of this blog and don't know what it has done, but this is a nice outreach for input on what the broadband future should be.

"Mike said yesterday:

This Commission has never, I believe, received a more serious charge than the one to spearhead development of a national broadband plan. Congress has made it crystal clear that it expects the best thinking and recommendations we can put together by next February. If we do our job well, this will be the most formative—indeed transformative—proceeding ever in the Commission’s history.

So when Julius joins Mike on the FCC, we’ll have some great commissioners to work with. And they need to hear from you.

They need your input on how to build an infrastructure that doesn’t just extend our current broadband, but creates the 21st century telecommunications infrastructure that we desperately need — true broadband speeds of up to 100 mbps. We need to make sure that we lock in the principle of a free and open Internet. And we need a spectrum policy that unlocks innovation and uses our airwaves in the ways that bring our country the most benefit.

snip>
Years ago, telecommunications policy was too often dominated by special interests and industry lobbyists. But through the work of so many of you, we now have a lively, democratic, and vital debate going on about the next steps in our broadband policy in this country.


http://www.savetheinternet.com/blog/2009/04/09/at-the-fcc-and-in-congress-a-new-paradigm-for-changing-media/
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. I came accross that blog site yesterday. Good things seem to be in the works.
Thanks for posting this here.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It sounds like it
I posted it on DU, but in spite of all their endless complaints on corporations and lobbyists defining legislation, there was little interest. Part of that might be the negativity that many now have on DU. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5426478&mesg_id=5426478

I put the links to the committee hearing from last year and the Daily Kos diary from then - he is very clearly an advocate of the idea that the public owns the air waves and they should be used as well as possible to benefit people. We are lucky he is chairing that committee and seems to like Obama's choice for FCC chair.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It becomes more and more impossible to have a discussion about issues on DU.
If the post does not deal with adulation/hate of Obama or the latest sensationalist news items, it falls quickly and surely.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. unfortunately true
disappointing and very superficial
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I agree with both of you. DU is a shadow of its old self. n/t
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Why do you think this is the case?
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 06:46 PM by Inuca
With a few exceptions, everybody's IQ seems to have taken a plunge. Is is simply that the main fuel for the more interesting and meaningful discussions, or even the silly but funny ones, was the need to vent against the unbearable Bush reality and now that things have changed most people seem to be like dogs running aimlessly to catch their own tails? It reminds me of people that do not know how to accept a gift or how to react to akind word... I don't know, it's kind of sad... The only threads (except the ones here, of course) where I spend more than a few seconds are the picture and first puppy ones.

On edit: did you see that the pup is going to be presented by Teddy and is of the same lineage as his own dogs? Touching.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I do not know. I think some people here have no idea what activism means.
They still think that things will happen without them, that somehow, Obama will be able to avoid the "villagers" pressure without our help.

I also think for many people, the pressure is off. Bush is far away, and it is what really mattered to them. They just do not know how to react. Either they go to meaningless rock star groupies or they go to meaningless opposition, and still seem not to understand there is such a thing as friendly disagreement or pressure.

As there are only so many threads about puppies or Michele's dresses I can stand in a day , my stay on GDP is more and more limited.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I think that before Obama won, the goal was easy and obvious
To win the Presidency

In 2005 and 2006, it was:
- fighting Bush
- starting to line up behind candidates.

The first was easy - and bound DU together - we were all uniformly of the position that Bush was doing awful things. We fought for small victories - that seemed to come only rarely - until November 2006.

The second was fun - the possibilities initially seemed more varied than they really were -leading to people postulating for runs for people who had absolutely no chance. The fun of looking at the candidates and then making a commitment was exhilarating, when everything seemed possible.

In 2007 and June 2008 it was:

- looking more realistically at who had a chance and picking the best of that set. For me, this was both far less exciting and I did not feel the level of trust for that choice that I did for Senator Kerry, but there was a sense that the winner of the Democratic party would be the winner in the GE. The goal of getting a Democratic President was very possible, but it would not be the dream of 2003 - January 2007.

For DU it was teams of people - supporting their team, attacking the other. This was easy to do and understand.

What it really wasn't - that I didn't see until after the election - was a serious interest in issues. For example, during the Al Gore will swoop into the race and save us phase, global warming was the end all and be all of all issues. Yet, this year serious posts on Poznan or good hearings sink like a stone. The Edwards people spoke poverty, poverty, poverty - but where were they on threads where Michelle Obama met with the Youthbuild people or went to a soup kitchen.

On other issues, there was a complete lack of understanding. Now, there are people shocked at Obama's position on Afghanistan - which is consistent with what he said in the campaign. There are people stunned that he moved out the dead line on Iraq - something he was always open to. (In fact, I suspected in 2008 that he shifted his position in 2007 to a slightly longer timeline version of Kerry/Feingold more because he saw it as the political sweet spot. Between him and Kerry there was a difference in intensity on this issue.

Now, it is a more complicated situation. There is NO big race in the future. Obama will be the 2012 nominee. 2010 is upcoming - but with big majorities already and the Presidency - it doesn't have the excitement of 2006. So, without the easy construct of a race which will have a winner and the goal to have your "horse" win, what is there?

Every day, the Obama administration makes real news. However often before the Obama administration has a chance to do something, supposed details of the Obama plan are leaked and there is a huge amount of consternation and horror that he is abandoning a pledge or doing something wrong. Yet MANY times, when Obama does really come out out with a statement or a plan - it is usually far more acceptable than the leaked account. Unfortunately, on DU the more sensational - usually the fake leak gets far more attention and comments than what really happened. The media seems to enjoy stories saying Obama is over exposed or that his base is unhappy etc In reality, even though there have been those negative undertones - his poll numbers have stayed pretty constant and he is getting his plans passed.

In addition to the reaction to stories that turn out to be false, there are the threads that reflect the fact that some really thought that electing a Democrat led us to nirvana and things would immediately be better than anyone ever promised. For some, the actual is compared to their never really possible pie in the sky. (ie - during the primaries there were fights over the nearly identical health care plans, but everyone was happy that if the Dems won, we would expand health insurance. Now a huge proportion of people are saying that only single payer or only free healthcare - neither ever promised and both unlikely to pass are the only thing that will make them happy.) They forget that in 2008, SCHIP passed by nearly a veto proof majority. In 2009, it was an easy victory - one that would have caused elation in 2008 had Bush decided it was too politically damaging to fail. That and all the other real victories that we have had this year NEED to be savored, not knocked for being not the full thing wanted.

I still think it worth while to be here - because the more people trying to put things in real context the better. I think that we (not limited to JK people) who try to do that are needed to somehow pull people back to reality.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Your post karyn
and the fact that there are still a few similar gems out there (in addition to in here) is why I keep dropping by almost every day.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. I agree with most of your post. However, I cannot agree with the fact that
Edited on Sun Apr-12-09 08:30 AM by Mass
it is irrealist to ask for "single payer" or other things like that just because they seem out of reach (if it is indeed what you say). Obviously, saying Obama is a liar because he does not propose it is silly. Asking him and other politicians to look at it seriously and not discard out of hand is NOT. Making clear there is a much bigger support for something like (or for real change in the financial systems, or for a real change in the school systems), and making these issues real discussions rather than letting the discussion field to the right is a GOOD thing. I do not care if Obama or Kerry supports gay marriage or not. These discussions need to happen and we should not avoid them. We can, however, have them with some civility and not call those who disagree traitors and liars. But what worries me the most these days is that any threads with some substance either falls or becomes hijacked by some people who think all has to do with personalities.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I agree with you
I didn't mean to say that single payer should not be discussed. I was reacting to the views that anything other than that is a failure and in one thread - even single payer was called a failure because you still had to pay for insurance.

As to gay marriage, I definately think it needs to be discussed and the gains this month have been impressive and great news. I also think that Kerry's position is less negative than "doesn't support". I wish he would drop the need to say that he doesn't personally support it because saying that clouds the fact that he really does support other people's rights.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. A different generation brought up on nothing but entertainment and
celebrity. They no very little about issues unless these issues affect them directly. However, ask them about what to wear and who is hot or who has a baby bump and they are well informed.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I hope you are
Edited on Sun Apr-12-09 06:43 AM by Inuca
at least partially wrong. Or that it is only a characterization of the young armchair warriors on DU and other similar virtual meeting places. I spent altogether only roughly a week knocking doors, etc. during the campaign, but I met a few young people that really impressed and/or touched me, and I just cannot believe that now they are obsessing about dresses or bows. Like the guy that took the semester off from school in St. Louis and was heading the local office in the small MO town where I went the week-end before the election. Or the black girl I canvassed with in IN just before the primary, full of questions and dreams, who seemed to want to ask "is this really possible?". She was singing softly as we were walking from house to house, and gave me a big hug when we said good bye. Well... maybe I am just a naive softy in spite of my advanced age... :-).
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. She sounds like a wonderful girl. I bet she doesn't post at DU though. n/t
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. That is not fair or true
The best of that generation have been more serious about their education and were pushed far more than us baby boomers. The kids I have met at the schools my kids attend are very serious and incredibly informed. These are the days when double majors are common place and kids come into school already having done work than many of us didn't get to until after our Freshman year in college.

The fact is that we were as informed about the lives of the Beatles and the other rock stars as they are with the current stars. We also all dressed to fit the image we wanted.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I have children too- all different. One is smart and serious and the other
has not a clue what goes on around her- nor does she care. She likes Obama because he is cool. One is a college grad already and the other is near graduation.
I was not saying all the younger generation is as I portrayed them, but if you take a good look at many of the recent threads in DUG and DUP they are filled with nonsense. You can not deny what appears as entertainment on TV and who does the watching. Sure there are serious students who attend college, but there are also college students who have no interest in what goes on around them. You child appears to have serious minded friends- that is great.

This is my explanation for the decline of DU, you are certainly free to disagree. I would like to ask you though, what is your explanation for the lack of thought provoking or even intelligent posting at DU.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Do any of these students you mention ever post at DU or other blogs?
Edited on Sun Apr-12-09 01:53 PM by wisteria
And, frankly, you will have to speak for yourself about what we did in "our generation". I was raised differently and college was a luxury my father was not going to lavish on me-a girl. I went to school at night and worked as an insurance clerk making very little during the day. I dressed as I wanted to- not as fashion dictated because I could not afford to be fashionable. I created my own style back then. As for music- I love it, but never was that into the Beetles that they swayed me to behave one way or another. I still maintain we were on a whole much more serious minded back then.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. I'm sorry I should have written that more carefully
Edited on Mon Apr-13-09 09:03 AM by karynnj
There were of course, serious people in the 1960s as well - I was one of them. I had an easier time affording college than you did, not because of family wealth, but because oddly enough Indiana's state constitution included the provision that state supported education be affordable - and this was interpreted to mean through college. Therefore, there was a "Hoosier Scholarship" available based on need for all students with over 1000 in SATs and at least a B average. For me and most of my siblings, it paid the full tuition at a state university. I earned the money for housing etc through a job at a shipping office of a steel mill - where my family knew the right people. I was raised as one of 9 kids and my dad was a milkman. My parents very strongly pushed all nine of us to go to college and we all did. As to fashion, we did follow it. My mom was incredible and made most of our clothes. We might not have looked the height of fashion in certain areas of NYC but we were following the fashions of the time that we liked.

I have three very different daughters - all very smart and each very much a person who moves to the beat of her own drummer. They all are far better, more expressive writers than I am. I also know the kids of many of my friends. I realize that many of these kids were among the top students in the country and are not representative. Many went on to extremely competitive colleges. One of my daughters is graduating this year and she and most of her closest friends have decided to commit a year or two to volunteer jobs before going on to graduate school. They are serious, committed to making the world better and are really good people. My husband and I were both very impressed when we sat and talked with a group of her friends in her sophomore year when we dropped by to drop off cookies on the way to Boston in December 2006. :) I know this daughter posts, but not here. In fact, posting as a 13 year old led to one of her posts being included in a book - for which she got a couple of books and $75. At 15, posts in a different place on a different topic led to a PM conversation with an author which led to a book contract and becoming a published author by her freshman year in college. As to political action, she protested the College of the Americas with a large group from her school and other colleges - something far more focused than the antiwar protests I attended in the lovely meadow in the center of the campus I was at.

However, my youngest chose a VERY non-competitive college in Idaho - a very different situation. The kids she knows are very engaged and very serious about college. They are definitely not privileged spoiled kids. My oldest is in a very liberal NYC university and I do know that she knows people who post here and elsewhere. I don't know their user names and it was weird, but nice, to have my daughter mention that one of her friends liked my posts after she told her my user name.

For the kids now in college or recently graduated, you have to think how their world looked over the last 8 years. In some ways, as one who graduated high school in 1968 - I see parallels between the two time periods. Kids graduating college this year started their high school years with 911 in their Freshman year - then the invasion of Iraq, the abysmal response to Katrina, the unbelievable unitary President actions, including allowing torture and spying on us, and now the financial crisis. All are major events where our government failed us. Even before that, as long ago as in the 1990s, it was already very true that most of them would not be as affluent as their parents even if they did everything right. For those of us graduating in 1968, the Kennedy assassination happened when we were in 8th grade, followed by the Vietnam War and Nixon's paranoia and targeting of his "enemies", the assassinations of MLK and RMK and as we graduated college, the story of Watergate was unfolding. (For those two years younger than me - they had this, more Watergate revelations and a major recession.)

For decades, 1968 was seen as one of the most volatile divisive years in US history. Had their been an internet, the immediate postings of my peers would have looked a lot like what we are seeing. Having been fascinated by the undergound newspapers then - that IU's library got and saved on microfiche, the posting may well have been worse. By their nature, many posts are done without self editing or even much reflection. This is why some can be gently pushed back to more reasonable positions.

I think part of the anger in the 1960s was that many were hurt and angry at the loss of the comforting beliefs that the world was a safe place where America was always a force for good and that doing the right things would lead to success. My daughter postulated that because of that her generation, our kids, were raised with more cynical political beliefs. This may have lead many of them to seek solutions via non-political avenues to make things better. Although Obama was able to motivate many of them last year because he was seen as different, they may still channel their energies into those alternative actions - even though they are still ecstatic that Obama is president.

Anyway - I never intended to imply that our generation was not serious or committed. I think over time the silly or most radical elements of that time have been used to stereotype both the era and us negatively. Most of us, like most of the current generation, were people working to complete their education, to find their values and to live by them. The intent was to say that I think today's kids really don't deserve the level of criticism they get.

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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I understand and I may have been to hard on this generation.
There certainly are a great many caring and informed young adults today. My one daughter is so tuned into what is going on around her and cares a great deal about what is happening in America and around the world. Then my other girl only voices concerns when they affect her directly. She is all about style and show. And, my third daughter has a very sensitive nature and she feels sorry for and wants to help everyone and every animal in need. But, she doesn't get involved in the politics of it all.

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. You got it- kids are all so different
Your daughter we met was fantastic.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. DU seems to be beginning to suffer from the same...
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 07:32 PM by YvonneCa
...problem as cable 'news'... the posts are the 'hot topic' or 'sensational' type news stories, and posts about serious issues no longer attract 'viewers.'

The reason for this is not clear to me. It could be..

...a) all the issue viewers/posters/readers left after Obama won (Mission Accomplished).

...b) there was a HUGE influx of new people with a conservative bent, who like the sensational stuff :7

...c) everyone is still reading, but are too tired to post anymore.:boring:

...d) everyone is still reading, but the issues are more complex (finance versus 'out-of-Iraq')

...e) Other. Any thoughts? :)
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. I take a, b, and what wisteria posted earlier.
Edited on Sun Apr-12-09 08:20 AM by Mass
The other thing is that people have always been personality driven. They like to acclaim their hero and blame their villain, and, surprisingly in a forum that is supposed to represent progressive politics, they do not believe that people should try to move things otherwise than by voting (may be because some people do not really know what they believe and other believe).

I also think that there is some notion that, if people discuss issues and "shoot for the moon", they will somehow hurt Obama. Single payer healthcare will only exist if people talk about it. 10 years ago, it was taboo to speak about universal healthcare and global warming. Now, these words have been co opted by the RW, and the issue for the most part becomes "market driven" vs "government driven". This would not have been possible if, for the last 10 years, activists have not been talking about it and "asking for the moon". This is why I have no problem with people asking for single payer even if we know it will not happen today. We need these talks and these demands in order to make sure systems like Medicare and Medicaid will be expanded, not limited. But you can make these demands because you believe in them, not because you love or hate somebody. What gets me mad is when I see somebody strongly advocate something, then change their mind because their hero has gone in the other direction.

Can we go back to understand politics as what it meant originally and not some strange "American Idol" version. It is not about Obama, Kerry, Clinton, or whoever we want. It is about US.

The same thing happened to me on a very different forum, where they expanded their scope from a very focused public to everybody. Eventually, the dialogue went from very specific topics I cared about to very generic questions that I try to avoid by not having cable. Eventually, I stopped going there more than a couple times a month and now I have stopped going at all. I feel the same way here. I still come regularly for this forum and a handful of thoughtful people on DU, but I do not come on blogs to fight with people. I find it highly inefficient to fight against people you do not know, and I have never seen a post that changed my mind about something. So, I feel less and less like coming on DU. Just have not find the right forum yet.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. I agree, especially about the 'American Idol'...
...part. That has always made me crazy. :)

One thing you said strikes me as very true, currently, about DU: "Eventually, the dialog went from very specific topics I cared about to very generic questions that I try to avoid by not having cable." That's what I see happening in GD and GDP...the posts that are the most sensational or 'pop culturey' (to borrow from Rachel Maddow) are the ones being discussed, and they are not usually the most important topics.


I wish the 'powers that be' here at DU would rename them...General Discussion and General Discussion POLITICS...like they used to be. Then at least GDP would be more focused. Right now, with the 'Presidential' title, everything goes (to Michelle's fashion sense to puppies). IMHO those belong in GD. Maybe some of us could request a change...??? :7

My other thought on this...and one of the reasons (besides everyone here in DUJK ) I stay is that I refuse to surrender this forum.:) I think it's really a valuable place to start getting the facts out there (for me, that's mostly on education issues). Even when posts fall, they make tiny dents. :7 The successful posts stir things up. (Remember JK saying we need to shake things up in this country? I still believe that...each in our own way.)

And now the begging part...PLEASE don't go!!!! :cry: We need you. :grouphug:
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-14-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. That is an excellent way to say it- "I refuse to surrender this forum."
That is why I come back, but I never got as far as to put it all into perspective.
And, as for the"powers that be" maybe it would be a good idea to contact them about changing a couple of things. I often wonder if their numbers have declined in the last year or two. I can't recall seeing as many posters I recognize anymore. I wonder where they have gone?
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-14-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Thanks, wisteria...
...and I'm glad you come back. I'd bet some other posters are still around...just not so visible. I hope people see the value in perseverance. :hi:
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. About posters
some have changed their names recently which I find frustrating. I used to scan long threads for names I knew, now I lost a few.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Yes, that is frustrating.
The only way to recognize a few is through their postings.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. I agree. I never want to just post to pick a fight.
And, unfortunately, for the most part that seems to be the case at DU. I have had people in the past make me think about something in another way and even eventually change my mind, but now there seems little room for discussion- just put downs and attacks.
In between the nonsense of course.
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