DailyKos diary to rec & comment.

[beachmom]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/10/7/84651/3497?new=true

Kerry's exchange with McCain at WH yesterday. Re: war powers.

[karynnj]

1. Nice diary

[beachmom]

2. Thanks. It is currently on the Rec List, and some are engaging in debate

on Afghanistan right now. The opponents of the war are commenting. I just find the Kuccinich position as simplistic as the GOP one. It has nothing to do with reality. OTOH, that site has not really debated Afghanistan much. And thing is, it is a big issue.

[beachmom]

3. I've put in a couple more updates, one on war powers of both branches of Congress,

and another from TPM which has more details on the Kerry/McCain exchange.

Frankly, I am appalled by the number of commenters siding with McCain. I think to a certain extent, John Kerry is asserting a "power grab" of sorts for the Congress, that most aren't used to. Thing is, this is normal and has happened over the course of our history. But folks over at DailyKos tend to think of everything as either black & white or partisan. The Constitution is not always black or white; it is subject to interpretation. And McCain is wrong not because he is a Republication but because he is an executive power monger.

Any insights people can contribute to the conversation are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[ProSense]

4. Good diary.

What's ironic is the number of people who want Obama to act like Bush. Posted an excerpt from the diary here.

[beachmom]

5. Thanks, Prosense. I think I am going to disengage from the diary

A lot of attacks (on JK & my diary), and frankly, I don't have the skills to debate constitutional law & war powers to that level of detail. I put some stuff out there but people don't want to look at the debate, but just assert Obama's power, I guess. Oh, and diss Obama & Kerry and Democrats who don't hold an Out Now position. One just said Kerry should be primaried. Sigh.

[karynnj]

6. I don't really have the skills on that either - but I will go over to try to help on issues I can

find substance to counter. (I do think they are right - at least in practice - that the President can do almost anything he chooses. The fact is that though Congress has oversight and controls the money, we saw how that works. It is completely unlikely that Congress will actually cut money when troops are employed - and I think the Pentagon has the ability to shift money to some extent even if they did. In reality, with a Democratic President, it is likely even less likely that the war would be defunded. The Republicans will not do - and Democrats have less reason to.

So, what are they left with:
Oversight can make arguments that can change opinion of both the President (best case) and the public - if clear and well supported. From various accounts, Obama is listening to at least 2 Senators, Kerry and Reed. I would bet that Obama and his people either watched or read summaries of Kerry's hearings.

Primarying Kerry - who is not up to 2014 - is pretty asinine. Even with residual anger over the IWR vote and his posturing on gay marriage and the angry Clinton people, he got almost 70% of the vote. Not to mention, even if he weren't outstanding, would they really want 2 freshman Senators?

[beachmom]

7. Yeah, it is just a subtle argument that won't work on such a platform.

In that sense it is a pain to write for DailyKos where you have to write about someone smacking down someone else. I mean, I agree with Kerry's position, and he thinks that constitutionally he is within his rights. McCain is basically for a unitary executive (although interestingly, in 2008 he semi-backed the Baker/Christopher proposal). But it is not a game of one upmanship. But that is the only thing valued on both cable and on the blogs. Like the original hearing on this topic got zero play on the blogs. Yet by inserting McCain into the equation and creating conflict, suddenly it is a story everyone wants to hear.

I read the recent Time cover story on Glenn Beck and it had an insight in it that I think cast a bad light not just on the Right/Fox News set but on the Left as well. It is the manufactured outrage machine industry. We are talking a lot of money, and a lot of hits (i.e. ad revenue). It is like the prominent left blogs NEED Beck and other right wing nuts to feed on in order to survive. Folks seem to love to be outraged. But where does it get us? I got a lot of comments on my diary insulting McCain. I received insults on Kerry and the substance of my diary. But I can count on one hand the number of comments that provided any insight on either war powers or the war in Afghanistan (one lady whose son deployed to Afghanistan was great, but a rare good comment).

I feel deflated by the whole experience. The level of discourse in this country is at an all time low. Sure the Right is worse, but the Left is not much better. Every time Beck says something outrageous Media Matters makes more money. That is all that matters to most powerful parties on the left and right.

Makes me remember The Joke. Not just about the election but about being "outraged" in order to make a buck.

[karynnj]

8. I don't think you should feel deflated -

Your analysis is spot on. There have virtually NO rec list diaries on Afghanistan and making it a McCain attack succeeded in getting it out. I think you are right that there really were very few substantive comments on war powers - likely it really is mostly the President. But,as the the war in Afghanistan, it did actually get some intelligent content - more than I've seen in the blogosphere.

I think the "outrage" whether the RW or Rachel Maddow or Olberman is one of the worst things that has happened to American news. It has no depth and no seriousness - instead looking for the awkward comment and repeating it ad nauseum ignoring the context and the actual positions. It is sickening. I am still absolutely disgusted at anyone who used the joke against a serious, thoughtful man, like Kerry.