well, he stayed calm

[mopinko]

at the therapist, even though it was a sticky discussion, so i am grateful for that. of course, he insisted that he is fine and i am nuts. apparently trying to figure out what is wrong with someone is now considered impersonating a doctor, and proof that you are nuts. believing that people can be screwed up by horrible sleep is also a clear sign of insanity. and most of all, sharing your pills with someone, on the unofficial advice of a psychiatrist, is the most heinous sin of all.
worst of all, tho, they both agreed that my wanting to talk about what to do if he wigs out was worthless and unnecessary. thank you doc.

[mopinko]

1. still talking

stinging a little over some things from the session, but see the value of them for him. her goal was to open up a space for him to talk, and that happened.
but these people do not know how lucky they are that i am not as crazy as they think. it is a real relief to us both that i am feeling well enough to be patient, and not have to react to his muddle. i do so feel for him. i have been in the exact spot before. that is a lot of what we are talking about. how i know how he is feeling, and how angry i was getting that no one would help him. i think i have been able to calm some of his fears, and assure him that i just want to help. making a big effort to just let him talk, and not always make a deal out of things i don't agree with, or that i think he is distorting. he'll get to it eventually.

[no name no slogan]

2. man, I can relate

my ex-wife is a former therapist, and therefore is totally convinced that all our problems are related to me, the crazy one.

First, she gets rid of me, thinking that will fix her problems. Guess what? They're still there. Next, she tries to take advantage of my weakened state and sell the house out from under me-- thinking that will fix everything. Well, it won't.

Pretty soon, all traces of me will be out of her life, and she'll be out of excuses. She'll still have problems, and they won't be my fault. For her sake, I hope she realizes it sooner, rather than later.

[mopinko]

3. i am appalled

by the number of professionals, and friends, who jump to the conclusion that a divorce would be the answer, here. oy.

[EFerrari]

4. mopinko, I've not been keeping up with the forum. So, feel

like I walked in in the middle of a conversation.

But, lol, the half I'm hearing sounds really familiar.

My husband reports his discomforts as problems in the relationship, and he's been having the same relationship over and over and over his whole life.

(Except, we've actually managed to take a step or two.)

Sometimes I get really pissed off at the therapist for letting all this be assigned to me, and for talking to me that way sometimes. (Once she had a bunch of advice for stuff that she thought I was doing/suffering because it was reported to her. That was hard for me to take.)

And, sometimes I understand that Doug's relationship to me is important to him, and that the therapist may frame all of this in terms of "us" or even of "me" because she knows he cares a great deal about us and me. And is more likely to try something that is really, really hard for him, because he cares so much.

I don't know if that makes any sense at all.

Do know, I have to keep taking care of my position as part of the solution, not part of the problem, Lonely work sometimes.

:hi:

[mopinko]

5. lonely indeed

i said in another thread that i am kinda glad that i went through this with a kid first, because no one thought of abandoning her as the logical solution. no one thought i was crazy because i still loved her and thought she loved me even thought she was telling people i was the wicked witch of the west. people even had the sense to take that with a grain of salt. and if i was crazy, that didn't make her sane, that made her in more need of help. now it seems to be some sick either/or question.
but at least i had him then. this week i had the dogs. and my loneliness was one more reason why it could be me that is crazy.

[EFerrari]

6. I think it gets airborne.

And at that point, sure, I'm crazy, and it's good to have the dog and the cats :)

I agree. When people are dealing with a parent/child, they see a family. When they're dealing with a partnership, they see something disposable. When people used to tell me to dump Doug, or question my motives or some whacky thing, I learned to ask, "Why do you think it's all right to disrespect my FAMILY?" Reframing helps clarify the stakes for everyone.

And as you point out, the temptation to blame one partner or the other just doesn't happen as much when the relationship is a parent/child.

I never realized how reactive people could be until I tried to handle this situation. It has been amazing.

Somehow, the Universe gave me this solution, to embrace the "problem" as OURS. Then, "divide and conquer" wasn't an option and everyone sort of had to get on board or be left behind. Everyone, sheepskinned or not. A version of "it doesn't matter who gets the credit". You're either with us on this adventure, or we wish you well and we move on.

This positioning required a lot of practice and reinforcing in the beginning but, it was the most freeing move.

This has worked well for us most of the time. Not always, but most of the time. And I get no disrespectful and gratutious opinions about my life choices or my "sanity" any more. It's my choice, after all.

Sometimes I think this whole deal has been in part about me learning to respect me.



take good care,
Beth

[DemExpat]

7. I find in the years (25!) that I have stayed in a rocky relationship

with the father of our 2 kids that the line is very blurry indeed for us between staying together out of love,strength and support, and staying together out of weakness(fear of abandonment/loneliness) and co-dependency.

I am still not certain if what we have done was the best solution, but, hey, it is our life, this life, and this is how it IS!

:hug: :hi: :hug:

And lots of it are not too bad....:evilgrin:

DemEx

edit: Bottom line:
We had 2 great kids through our relationship
We have definitely helped each other survive with our handicaps(even though it often seems like tearing each other down)
We both see our relationship as a soul pact to mirror each others' deepest feelings and conflicts to force a clear vision - painful and helpful at the same time.

[EFerrari]

8. Hey, DemEx.

I really don't like that whole "co-dependency" thing. It just seems to focus on all the negative stuff -- which just enlarges it, give it power. Reminds me of those old rubber dish washing gloves inside out -- remember the netting and how creepy that looks? lol

Every relationship has moments of destructive agreements. Why define a relationship by those moments? Sort of like calling a dog a hairy flea nest. :)

I don't know anyone else that would not think it weird if I got up in the middle of the night to look something up, or spent a day working on a verse or who wouldn't feel embarrassed if I talk to the crows on the telephone wires. I scored. :evilgrin:


/typin'

[DemExpat]

9. I also have aversion to the whole co-dependency view....

but do see some truth in it....just one piece of a puzzle.

I think that all relationships are, or become, co-dependent, so it is not an aberration to be fixed, if you know what I mean.

It does illuminate some (negative) aspects though, and worthy of examination IMO.

:hi:

DemEx

[EFerrari]

10. Sure. Reality is a welcome guest here.

Two things for us, anyway. Doug's major challenge is relating at all, so the notion that we're co-dependent just assumes 'way more relating than is actually going on. LOL! It just set me back, how easy the word was for people to roll out.

On the other hand, it is really useful to lookit the stuff we agree to, mostly without talking about, that isn't good for us. In our case, we probably won't ever sit down and talk them out. But it is helpful to look and to bring it up as we can, in our own way, to see what we can do about 'em.

Hey, I (re)found this great site today for folks dealing with Asperger's -- www.tonyattwood.com. In particular, there is a great checklist for "friendship skills" on the homepage at the bottom left corner. I can't figure out how to link it directly. But, I emailed it to Doug's doc, and it looks like she found it helpful. (Her area is harm reduction and substance abuse.) I love Tony. He's just so expansive, and his site is really useful for people dealing with the autism spectrum as adults.

:hug:

Beth