My husband is a narcissist and can't stop cheating or lying

[The Hope Mobile]

even though he often snaps into the reality that its wrong and that he is lying. He tells them that I withhold intimacy when its actually him that withholds from me. We have 4 kids. I'm overwhelmed.

[mdmc]

1. sounds like a very horrible situation.

my thoughts and prayers are with you and yours.

[The Hope Mobile]

2. Thank you so much. I was up VERY late last night reading DU because

I just couldn't sleep in the same room as him knowing what I know . . . and I felt I needed to say something to somebody about it because I caught him again yesterday, totally red handed and he STILL can't acknowledge it. It breaks my heart for my kids. We can certainly use all the prayers and thoughts available. We have amazing children and they have been through it all. I gave him an ultimatum today. We'll see what comes of it.
Thanks again!! Nice to hear a kind word.

[mdmc]

19. yesterday my dad told me life is too short

Why should we increase our suffering? Why don't we adjust our lives to reduce suffering and promote our happiness?

I'm askin...

[EFerrari]

3. HI there, NoMoreLurking.

I'm sorry you're going through this. But, you're sure not alone -- a lot of us have been in those places.

Who is in your corner right now?

[The Hope Mobile]

4. The few friends that have been able to hang in . . . the ones I've stood by in equally

difficult situations. We have a counselor but I'm not sure he gets it 100%. Being a narcissist, of course, he is VERY charming. He's also very bright so he can rationalize better than ANYONE I've ever known and that's definitely saying something. He has broken every vow imaginable and he really doesn't understand the impact that has on the rest of us, or even on himself. His father did the same things to his mother.
My husband is going to twelve step meetings (SA but really its about the compulsion to lie, to defend himself excessively, to escape via relationships that don't make him own his responsibility in his life)and I was going to AlAnon but didn't find it terribly helpful though I have other friends who attend.
I wrote this late late late a few nights ago when I found out that once again he was communicating with the girl he has slept with and hid from me in the past . . . though we were separated then, we had agreed not to get involved until the papers were signed . . . and they weren't signed. He was still staying here on occasion.
We have 4 kids and their lives have been pretty hellish. They're unbelievably off-the-chart, smart, athletic, socially (and politically) aware leadership types of kids. In fact, our 11 yr old daughter has been invited to Washington DC for the Junior National Youth Leadership Conference. We can't afford it because our finances are trashed from all the years of lying and horrible communication . . . BUT thankfully the mayor's office is stepping in and helping her get there.
Anyway, as a mother, the fact that they have all this amazing potential (not to mention that I love them more than I can ever put in words)and yet live in utter chaos MOST of the time (his recovery seemed to be taking hold from January to July of this year) has been the most significant factor in my depression. I'm better right now, but if he continues on the road he's been on for the last couple of months it will be very difficult to hold it together much longer.
Thanks for taking the time to be supportive. You've actually written me once before about a year ago. I know you can relate and I appreciate that.

edited to hopefully be more coherent

[EFerrari]

9. You know, there are times when it is completely appropriate

to draw down intimacy with your partner.

One of those times is when the trust in the relationship has been violated.

I had people telling me that, too, and had to point out to them that intimacy is not a given -- it's based on trust. They were asking the wrong question when there was a more basic question or issue that needed attention.

:hug:

[The Hope Mobile]

11. Absolutely agreed.

There never has been a lot. The men in his family are mostly physically intimate with women other than the mothers of their children. The madonna/whore syndrome.

He renewed his promise to keep his vows this morning but its clear he still feels that he is a victim of my unreasonable expectations (unbroken vows and respected boundaries). There's NOTHING unusual about them . . . honesty, communication, respect, etc. Its clearly SO foreign to him and it scares the crap out of him to be truly intimate emotionally.

In some ways, I am very sad for him. How damaged is he to run from one of the best things in life?

[EFerrari]

14. It may be beyond his ability at the moment.

I learned to comfort and right myself by trying to remember that the person I was hurt by and angry with didn't exactly exist.

In other words, my ex presented a persona to me and I married that persona. But, that wasn't him. Not where he really lived. That was the ideal we both wanted for him, to be more precise.

I've gotten angry with that person that doesn't actually exist many times, and that's a no winner. I had to deal with Doug as he was and with his real limits before we got anywhere, even to get to a separation.

Similarly, giving him ultimatums were just mostly frightening for him and he mostly just acted out at those times. The persona could handle it with some drama, but the real guy was just scared witless and the cycle kept going. I hope you have a better outcome.

[The Hope Mobile]

15. I think you're dead on. With 4 kids I feel like I have to try. He actually

went for 7 whole months doing quite well and pffft, the good guy disappeared again. So sad, because he really wanted to be a good guy. He liked living with integrity. There was a change in his posture, facial expressions, all around body language. There was in mine and the kids' too. I know my smile has pretty much slid off my face again. Exasperating. I care about him enough that I want this for him too. I know he's scared and hurting. But so are my kids.

edited for punctuation.

[EFerrari]

16. What you are trying to do takes a lot of strength.

I hope you all have the support you need as you walk though this.

What I eventually learned about Doug is that his bonds to me and to our family were pretty shallow. Not because he was a bad person but because those were the bonds he could form. I made my peace with that and, it was damaging for me and for my kids although, in the long run, Doug probably got to a better place and more consistently there because we tried. That's a good thing.

We fought a good fight, anyway. We did our best to keep everyone safe and to stand together. That's all anyone can really try to do. That and every day as kindly as possible.

Take care of you. :hug:

[The Hope Mobile]

17. Thank you.

I know that he has come to better understand what family/relationship/commitment mean as he had NO idea when we got together. Whether he will ever be able to engage completely in all of the benefits of a family and relationship its hard to know. And it is draining re-parenting a narcissist. Some days I just can't do it because he pushes my buttons so hard. If it weren't for the kids I wouldn't even try.

I always appreciate your thoughts on this board in general. You have some serenity in your perspective that I used to have, still have glimpses of and know that I will regain some day.

[elleng]

5. 'Projection'

"In psychology, psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions to others. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them. The theory was developed by Sigmund Freud and further refined by his daughter Anna Freud, and for this reason, it is sometimes referred to as "Freudian Projection"<1> <2>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

My husband (separated) practices it often, and I just noticed it in our older daughter, who accused her younger sister of attributes I had just noted in the older! I gulped, and kept my mouth shut.

[The Hope Mobile]

6. Yes, he constantly projects things on me and I'm very familiar with

the mechanism. He's also extremely passive aggressive. Projection is one of, if not THE, most primitive defense mechanisms. It says everything about where a person's emotional development is. A person who feels compelled to project (though usually totally subconscious) is about as immature as they can be emotionally.
Good luck with your husband. I just gave mine the ultimatum. He stops or he goes. We've been separated several times but there will be no turning back this time and he knows it.

[elleng]

8. Passive aggressive too.

No going back to him, I left wonderful house because I knew I couldn't actually throw him out. But have to have regular contacts because he's daughters' father.

Then, seeing this trait in my daughter whom I recognize to be emotionally troubled is causing me much concern.

[The Hope Mobile]

10. It is very discouraging seeing the damage to your children.

I know. My 12 yr old is so angry about this but yet he repeats dad's verbally abusive, passive aggressive, narcissistic behavior. He is also very charming. It breaks my heart to see him so hurt and confused.

[elleng]

12. Its awful.

I never could pretend I agreed with the b.s., bad advice etc, coming from his mouth, and daughters know we disagreed; stating it regularly tho caused huge firestorms, so I largely remained silent.

Daughters recognized his 'bad' behavior and didn't repeat it, fortunately, but NOW, at age 23, I'm noticing some similar behavior from older daughter; continually giving unsolicited advice in situations where it clearly would do nothing but aggravate situation. (and THEN calling her sister 'controlling!' Thought I might die laughing, but NOT funny!)

[The Hope Mobile]

13. Its usually when they form relationships with significant others that

the symptoms start really manifesting I think. I can't agree with mine either and it creates so much tension.

[The Hope Mobile]

7. Your name is highly coincidental!?!?

Its the name that his not very bright but most frequent affair likes to call herself. She buys the whole thing hook, line, and sinker and as they say, that's why men cheat. I'm sure this is a thousand times more the case for narcissists. He wants to be with someone who believes his lies at least sometimes, but not permanently.

[blueraven95]

18. ...

:hug: