Snape is definitely a good guy.

[WMliberal]

Dumbledore trusts/ed him because he made Snape make an unbreakable vow before he took him on a a professor at Hogwarts. It was the part of Snape's repentance that was so "convincing."

The argument Harry sees Snape and Dumbledore having in the middle of the book is Snape telling Dumbledore about his newer vow to protect Malfoy/ Malfoy's mission and how to reconcile that with his vow to Dumbledore.

I think Chapter 2 and pages 616-7 are the most important regarding this. Snape will definitely prove it in the next book. My guess is that he finds the missing horcrux and destroys it.

Remember, when he kills Dumbledore, he's only doing so because to not do it would cause his own death (the Unbreakable Vow's penalty).

[Orsino]

1. Yep.

I expect him to be proven a good guy in the next book--if only because Rowling worked so hard to make him seem evil.

[dhinojosa]

2. I am getting a Jesus-Judas relationship vibe with all this too.

You know one camp says Judas betrayed Jesus, while another said Judas only did Jesus' bidding and was a good man. Looks like the same stuff here. What a ride book 7 is going to be. Dumbledore says to trust Snape, so I will.

[WMliberal]

3. I'd have no idea about that. I've never read much of the Bible

and watched most of "The Passion" on fast-forward.

I'll bet he trusts Snape because Snape would die if he broke an Unbreakable Vow-to-be-revealed in Book 7.

[dhinojosa]

4. Not really in the bible, just some tin foil speculation from...

the bible reading community. I am wondering if JK is borrowing from that.

[intheflow]

5. The potions book hints of Good Guy Snape

On p. 525 (US Scholastic) Rowling writes that the potion book "had become a kind of guide and friend."

On p. 529, Hermione & Harry have this exchange:
Hermione: "I told you there was something wrong with that Prince person.... And I was right, wasn't I?"
Harry: "No, I don't think you were."

It's obviously not coincidental that the HBP is Snape, or that the HBP's book helped Harry, or that Harry considered the book a friend and guide. I think it foreshadows a closer (or at least reconciled) connection between Harry and Snape in book seven.

[XemaSab]

6. After the occlumency lessons

Harry seemed to have some sympathy for Snape, and I think the potions book furthers that potential positive connection, but Harry's hatred of Snape may not be possible for him to overcome.

It's interesting how Rowling is able to both show the emotions of Harry, the protagonist of the series, while letting the reader know that Harry may not be right about Snape, or at least leaving it up to the reader to interpret whether Harry's feelings are valid or not.

Whose intuition and judgement do you trust? Harry's or Dumbledore's?

[intheflow]

7. Dumbledore has way more experience than Harry, so

I'm trusting his judgement & intuition over Harry's.

I think those occlumency lessons were a big forehadowing all around. The Snape-Lily speculation was started there. Harry only saw an incomplete memory of when James & friends were teasing Snape, he caught Harry "peeking" and pulled him out of the memory. I wonder if something happened after involving Lily that has to do with why DD trusts Snape.

[XemaSab]

8. Lily and Snape

didn't seem too chummy there.

She called him "Snivellus" and he called her a Mudblood.

But they probably had potions together and knew each other in the way that Draco and Hermione know each other. Especially if they were both star students in Slughorn's class. There's definitely a lot more to be learned there.

*Especially* since Rowling totally ducked the question in that interview. That's some suspicious action on her part there.

[intheflow]

11. Yes, I know what the book said, but

the point I was trying to make is that we saw only a portion of "Snape's Worst Memory." Who's to say that if there was a chapter called "Snape's Best Memory" that it wouldn't be about Lily at some later time, or that what made that his worst memory was the fact that James did it in front of Lily in the first place?


But I don't know. I've been reading the books right along, but this is the first time I've delved into fandom. :)

[XemaSab]

9. Here's a cockamamie theory:

Voldemort gave Lily a chance to live because Snape was there and he wanted her spared.

Then after she was dead, he defected from LV's side because LV killed her.

and has anyone ever suggested a snape/petunia pairing?

/baseless speculation

[intheflow]

10. Actually, someone has thought of that pairing.

:rofl: I found this while looking in fan art galleries last week. :rofl:

[XemaSab]

13. Oh my...

I think my brain just melted.

:D

[Mist]

12. It's possible both viewpoints are "true" to each character

Harry doesn't trust Snape largely because Snape is a bad teacher and picks on Harry. BUT DD knows quite a bit more about Snape than Harry does. DD's trust in Snape could be firmly based, and that still leaves room for Harry's animosity and distrust. Actually, one of my big questions throughout the series is why DD hired Snape as a teacher; DD must be aware of Snape's acute shortcomings as an instructor.

[XemaSab]

14. As far as shortcomings as an instructor go,

Snape seems to actually teach the students something, for the most part, which is more than Trelawney, Lockhart, Umbridge, Binns, the centaur, and Hagrid can say. Is it better to have a teacher who's a jerk but is highly proficient in his subject and gets the students through their OWLs and NEWTs, or a teacher who's a creampuff but is also incompetant and teaches the students nothing?

Some of the teachers who taught me the most were the hardasses. (But then again, I had teachers who were jerks who didn't teach worth a flying fig either).

[DinahMoeHum]

15. And why have Snape as head of Slytherin house if not to keep tabs

on the offspring of the DE's.

:shrug:

[Mist]

17. It's true that Hogwarts has quite a few mediocre instructors

I think I dislike Snape because he insults and intimidates a lot of students, and is unfair (subtracts points from Gryffindor when Hermione is correct, for example). Neville's so scared he can't possibly be learning anything in Potions! But I suppose Binns is worse; nobody seems to take in anything much in his classes!

[XemaSab]

18. Can't say Neville learns much

in many of his classes. Someone brought up the other day the suggestion that Neville's poor memory may be a result of some incident in his past....

[Mist]

19. True--I'd forgotton that myself! I think some have suggested

that someone in Neville's own family, his grandmother, perhaps, put a memory spell on him to help him forget the trauma of what happened to his parents.

[MountainLaurel]

20. Wasn't it Lockhart?

Who put the bad memory spell on Neville, leaving him with permanent issues? or is that something I read in some fanfic?

[XemaSab]

21. Neville has a bad memory from the moment they meet him

in the first book. If I recall correctly, the first time they meet him, he's looking for Trevor, as always.

Lockhart isn't until the second book.

Bertha Jorgens has her memory permanantly damaged by Crouch sr when she finds out about Crouch jr.

[MountainLaurel]

22. I wasn't clear -- when he was a baby

I didn't mean that Lockhart performed a charm while he was DADA professor.

The back story I am recalling was that after Neville's parents were tortured in front of him, a junior Auror performed an Obliviate charm on Neville. It was Lockhart, so of course the charm went wrong. Will dig around the HP Lexicon to see if there's anything there.

[Mist]

23. That sounds like fanfic, but interesting idea! n/t

[hertopos]

16. I have my own theory about Snape

In HBP, DD really elaborate why HP is so special. It used to sound a bit corny but now I think it is the key after all. This is the book written by a single mother. She must have a very strong opinion about the importance of love.

In HBP, there are lots of emphasis on the difference between HP and Tom Riddle. I also got un impression that Snape had decent parents. DD even knew that Maloy would not kill him. Unlike Tom Riddle, he knew mother's love. On the other hand, Tom Riddle was already damaged at the core when DD saved him.

So, what is my point. If Snape is actually a good guy and DD was right, Snape must have loved someone strongly and that has to be the reason why DD was so convinced Snape came back from the dark side. If he loved Lily, it makes sense that part of Snake really hate Harry since there are lots of things in common between him and his father.

From the beginning, love and sacrifice have been a strong undercurrent and become even stronger in later volume. I did not like OOP as much as other books when I read it for the first time. But now I think I will reread it more carefully.

There are also some other reasons why, I believe, Snape has to be a good guy. After DD's death, Harry cannot possibly defeat Tom Riddle unless there is someone who can really make a difference when Harry confront him. Only Snape has such a power because now he has established himself among the Death Eaters.

Finally, I never believe that someone like DD would be actually afraid of death.

In addition, the entire story is about Harry coming to age. He has to be on his own at some point and now he really is on his own.

Anyway, I really really loved HBP. It has the complexity of GOF and OOP and at the same time it has a flawlessness and a balance between lightheartedness and seriousness.

Hertopos

[XemaSab]

24. I think the critical chapter here

for understanding the ending is the scene at the department of mysteries in OOP... Voldemort and DD are talking about death, and DD says there are far worse things than death.

also, on reread, Harry's been consistantly off base about what Snape's up to.

futher, and this is a small detail, Snape uses sectumsempra on James in "Snape's worst memory" and this is a spell labelled "for enemies."