Lord of the Rings discussion: Tom Bombadil.

[RevolutionaryActs]

Discuss, I want to hear your thoughts and theories! :D

[lazarus]

1. Bombadil

Ah, Tom. Great character.

I think he's a Maia gone to earth, sort of like Melian.

I've heard a theory that he's actually the manifestation of Iluvatar. I dunno, I guess it's possible. But then, who's Goldberry?

[Crunchy Frog]

2. I think he's intended to be an enigma

and is pretty successful on that score. I really have no idea who or what he is.

I actually read somewhere that Tom Bombadil was originally a doll that belonged to Tolkien's children, and that he at some point got flushed down the toilet and had to be rescued. Sort of an irony then that he would end up with a River Woman's daughter.

Goldberry is the River Woman's daughter. I would assume that the River Woman is some sort of Maia?:shrug:

[lazarus]

3. On second thought

He's Aule.

Check out this essay. The writer makes a damned good case.

[LWolf]

4. Fascinating essay.

While I read the Silmarillion once or twice many years ago, I can't say that I "studied" the background of Tolkien's work; I don't know or remember much of what the article discussed, but I was fascinated by it anyway.

Personally, I always thought of Bombadil as a sort of avatar or archetype for the creator. The first, the last, there before all, and therefore outside the battle of light vs dark, the eras of elves vs men.

If I had to personify him somehow, I'd equate him with the Greenman, who has a wealth of aspects, names, and personalities in human history.

And Goldberry? His literal other "half," as all of creation was divided. The creator as a whole would not be male or female, but both, in one. Tom is the "father" half. In material form on earth, he would take both forms, like the rest of creation. Just my take.

I was appalled at his having been excised from the films; as the first and last, and obviously the most powerful, he lends foundation to the tale as a place in the whole story of middle earth.

As a matter of fact, my two favorite "Rings" characters, Treebeard and Tom, were both marginalized in the film; one excised completely, and one dumbed down almost beyond recognition.

If I could materialize in the pages of a book to meet and converse with just one character, Tom would be it. If I could be a character myself, I would have been an Ent; or, I guess, an Entwife. ;-)

[lazarus]

5. you know who should have played Bombadil?

I think John Lithgow would have been perfect.

[LWolf]

7. I never thought about it;

but the idea of Lithgow gives me a chuckle.

I don't see enough movies to know who is really out there, but I would have looked for a man who:

*is ageless. Not too young, not too old, could be any age.
*is, or can play, a relatively large-framed but nimble man; Bombadil is "larger than life." A powerful, yet gentle and friendly, physical presence.
*a rich, warm voice and great laugh.

[Withywindle]

16. I agree with you about Treebeard.

I've always thought I would love to read a whole LOTR-sized novel (which would just be a little pamphlet to them of course) about the Ents and the Huorns (And Yavanna! And are Laurelin and Telperion like Eve and Adam to them? )

My username betrays me as having a special fondness for that part of the book too. The Old Forest, the Barrow-wights...that whole part. It's just as well it was skipped in the movie. My mental images are intact.


I'm still trying to find this essay or letter or whatever it was, but I have a memory of coming across something that Tolkien wrote about Tom in LOTR as a sort of spirit of "pure science" in that he sought to understand nature, but not to try to control it in any way. The sort of personality content to study flowers for centuries and do nothing to try to use knowledge as power over nature--simply because knowledge of things is worthwhile for its own sake. The Ring had no effect on him because the very idea of power was alien to him.

So, yes, the Green Man. Nature as it is when left alone. How wonderful!

[Walt Starr]

6. He's a children's character that Tolkien entertained his kids with

why he was added to the LOTR is unknown. I think more to drive people crazy than anything else.

Best scenes to cut out of the movies, IMO.

[blindpig]

8. according to what I can remember

from the Silmarillion he was of order of the Maia(sp?), as were Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron and Mellian(sp?) Thingol Greycloak's wife. As was the case with such quasi-deity types he became more "bound" to Middle Earth the longer he resided there. He was a Power of sorts, but not of much use for fighting a Ring War.

His absence from the movie, which at the release I was willing to accept for the cause of brevity, was a warning sign for great disappointments to come.

[lazarus]

9. nope

He wasn't mentioned in the Silmarillion at all (I just finished it).

And he was never positively identified as anything in any of Tolkien's work, intentionally.

[blindpig]

10. ok

It must have been that book that came after, Lost Tales or something. I've got it at home, let you know tomorrow.

[lazarus]

11. Yeah

either that or Unfinished Tales.

Mine are in storage. Sigh.

I'm setting out this year to get all 10 Lost Tales volumes in hardcover. Figure they'll look great with my Argonath bookends I got in the Fellowship DVD gift package.

[blindpig]

12. ooops

not in Unfinished Tales. Must have been in the Lost Tales volume that I borrowed from the library last summer. Won't be able to get there until next week due to my peculiar lifestyle(don't drive).Swear that's what I read. Get back at ya.

[tibbiit]

13. I always saw

Tom Bombadil as Jimmy? the Grownup leader of the first set of Mouseketeers on the original mickey mouse.
lol
I just realized that when I read the idea of John Lithgow. lol
It would have to be Jimmy (one of my first loves:) ha ha.
tib

On edit: did Tom go to the grey havens too? I cant remember anymore since it has been mamy years since I read any tolkien.

[porkrind]

14. What was the point of his character?

Tom Bombadil seemed like an aside. A story within a larger story. I thought he was pointless, and didn't add to the story.

[lazarus]

15. He was a mystery

At first, he was put in because he matched a doll Tolkien's kids had.

Read some of the links in my posts upthread, there's a lot of discussion about this. I've bought into the Tom = Aule camp myself.

[Love Bug]

17. This seems like a good place for this:

[LWolf]

18. lol

:D