If a get a small dumpster for my bathroom remodel,

[wildeyed]

will I get tagged by the building inspector for not having a permit? I am not sure that I need a permit, but it seems like the building inspector can always find something to make your life difficult. And if they see a dumpster, they will know we are doing some serious renovating and maybe come knocking on our door.

The thing is, the cement and lathe behind the tile is so heavy, I don't know exactly how else we will be able to get rid of it. Normally, I haul the detritus of our various homeowner projects to work and put it in the dumpster there. But this stuff is ridiculous! We pulled off a small 2 1/2 by 3 1/2 bit today, and it took two of us two trips to move just that little bit. The stuff must be nearly 6" thick. :crazy:

[Kingshakabobo]

1. It depends on how "sleuthy" your particular building departmen.....

.....wants to be.

I did outside concrete work for 4 summers during college. We almost never pulled permits and only got caught once. Even if you do get busted, which is unlikely, most towns don't fine do-it-your-selfers. They just make you pull permits. The trick is, make sure everything you do is up to code- or better.


I have a similar dilemma as you, only worse. I'm looking to build a roof-top deck on my place in Chicago and getting a permit is next to impossible. If I get caught in the act, I could be forced to tear the thing down. There are decks all over my neighborhood and I know most of them were done without permits.

[wildeyed]

2. I am using a certified electrician and plumber

for that work. We are doing the demo and tiling ourselves. The only really dicey thing we plan to do ourselves is replace one of the walls surrounding the shower with glass brick. Glass brick is heavy and will require some minor structural work under the house. Since I don't want the wall to fall through the floor, I intend to be careful with that anyway ;)

Good luck with the deck. It would be frustrating to do all that work, then be forced to remove it.

[Berserker]

4. Building permits

are very important for the reason it protects not only your safety but the next person to buy that home. I have seen some real dangerous and sloppy work done by homeowners not wanting to get a permit.
Permits pay for inspections. Wouldn't you like to know the next home you put your family in has been inspected and not wired by a homeowner with a wiring book from Homedepot?

[wildeyed]

5. Um, I said I was using a certified electrician.

I have worked with him before, extensively. He is very competent. So what's the problem? :shrug: But if I felt confident in our ability to do wiring, I would. But I don't so I won't. I stay away from everything but the simplest plumbing projects, too. There is a reason those guys make the big bucks.

Besides, we don't do dangerous or sloppy work, and we don't get in over our heads. We have been renovating for years, with nary a problem or accident, plus we have done extensive building projects at work, working with a variety of contractors.

[Kingshakabobo]

7. I agree. I always do work ABOVE code.

It doesn't make any sense to skimp on materials or cut corners when you are doing the work your self. Also, if you get pinched, you won't have any problem with the village.

Besides, I'm not too impressed with inspectors anyway when it comes to looking out for me. I've seen plenty of shoddy work get passed inspectors. I guess when you are dealing with a clueless homeowner they are better than nothing.

[Warpy]

3. The best thing is to call your local building department

and tell them exactly what you're doing: retiling and replacing old fixtures. They may not require a building permit unless plumbing, electrical, walls, and/or windows are being relocated.

I had a HUGE 30 cubic yard dumpster delivered in Florida, and never got a knock on my door from anybody officia. I filled the sucker, too.

[wildeyed]

6. We are not making any layout changes.

The only major change is to the electrical system, and I have a competent electrician lined up for that. Currently, all we have in there is one outlet, one vanity light and no vent. I want to add can lights, a vent and a heat lamp.

I don't think I will bother with a permit. We are not doing anything all that complicated. If they want to look at the work, I doubt there will be any problems. I did go ahead and hire a small dumpster.

[troubleinwinter]

8. Does your electrician say the work requires a permit?

It may or may not. If he is a licensed contractor, he should know. Often times a 'home-owner contracted' remodel does not require one, if you are not changing the footprint of the home, merely 'updating' and 'not making structural changes'.

Knowing the political vernacular can get you past the dept. We did a MAJOR addition/remodel... including transforming a 2BR/1BA to a 3BR/2BA. We were on septic, and they said that if we added bedrooms, we'd have to upgrade the septic (huge $$$$$$). We could add 95 bathrooms, they only counted bedrooms! So we drew a 5' open doorway to one (bedroom) and labeled the room on the plans "Study", figuring we could retrofit it to a normal door after the inspector left. Once the building dept. approved the drawings, the inspector didn't give a damned and we built it as we originally intended. A lot of inspectors are home remodelers themselves. Only a few are wanna-be-cop assholes.

I wouldn't worry in the least about the dumpster... for all they know, you are simply replacing vanity cabinets, tile, sink, fixtures, faucet, linoleum, tile ("redecorating")... none needs a permit.

If a permit IS required, you might consider that if you ever intend to sell your house, it is helpful to be able to state that it was 'done with permit'. But if you were to go for a permit now, you'd need complete drawings and the plan review would probably set you back a couple of months, let alone $$$.

Yay, dumpster and certified trade contractors!

[wildeyed]

10. The electrician didn't say anything about a permit.

I asked the plumber as well, and he said he didn't think so either, but of course, don't hold him to that. The only thing that could be construed as structural is changing the one wall in the shower surround to glass brick. The glass is heavier than drywall, so it will require some changes to the foundation. According to a book I have, you need to heavy up the joist, but it didn't say anything about adding a pier, so I am good with that. We are only lukewarm on even doing that particular change, so it may not come to pass.

I had a very bad experience with an inspector when we were upfitting our commercial space at work. He got crosswise with the landlord's representative, and changed our zoning designation unfairly, requiring much more extensive upfitting for fire code. Now I thought the landlord's guy was an ass, too, but by hurting him, the inspector hurt us. And I believe he changed the zoning in retaliation for the rudeness from the landlord, not for any valid usage reason.

That is the only really bad experience I have had with inspectors, but it was horrible. Usually, we leave a bunch of small jobs undone so the inspector can make us change those instead of harassing us about something that would cost major $$$'s to change 'cause they always make you change something or they don't feel they are doing their job.

People have been getting around the inspectors forever. I toured a historic home in Wilmington, NC. Instead of a back door it had really big windows. The reason? Houses were taxed on the number of doors, but windows were free. :rofl:

[troubleinwinter]

12. Oh, you have learned the trick!!!

Most inspectors are good people. My husband is (and I was) in the building industry. hen we are remodeling at home and husband is expecting and inspection, he ALWAYS leaves a small item for the inspector to 'find'. The inspectors know the game, too, and usually smile. They know waht you're doing and help them by having a report to file, so they have 'done their jobs'.

We bought an old 1920's rural chicken-coop of a house, one asshole inspector just said, "you should tear it down". Fortunately, he retired. The inspector we had thereafter was a guy who'd been in his position for 30 years, was supportive of our project to rebuild it, and very helpful.

He said, "You know... many of the building codes are crap written by politicians in the state capitol. They keep their jobs by filling their empty time writing bullshit codes they know nothing about. The industry lobbyists wine and dine them. I look at the regulation for an electrical outlet every 6' along a wall in a bedroom. You have a bedroom with a dozen or more outlets. They are not needed, but the electrical materials supply lobby got it written into code to benefit their industry clients. The legislators should just go home and quit inventing regulations to fill up their time." This was 25 years ago, and it has always stuck in my mind about how the politicians write more and more laws that we don't need, just to show they are 'working'.

The old chicken-coop ended up a glorious, beautiful house.

[troubleinwinter]

9. Worst case:

They can 'red-tag' it to shut down the work until all is plan-approved and inspected. You are OK if everything is done to building codes, which you want anyway. Likelyhood of a home-owner remodel getting red-tagged is very small.

If something is done without a permit, and is not up to code, the consequences can be very serious... Say you build a $40,000 addition that isn't up to exact foundation specifications, or too close to a property line set-back. They can force the demolition of it.

A neighbor had built a $100,000 covered horse arena. Plans had been county approved. Turned out that it was 12" taller than permitted. County told her to tear it down, even though it was approved & rubber stamped by them! The whole neighborhood went to bat for her, and after a huge dust-up, she was granted a 'variance' after the fact.

[wildeyed]

11. Your poor neighbor!

In my old neighborhood, their were problems with people tearing down houses and building mega mansions, or doing huge additions on small houses on small lots. Some in the neighborhood group pointed out the zoning issues, and a bunch of people had to tear stuff down, even though it had been approved. The woman in charge of the neighborhood group got death threats.

[troubleinwinter]

13. We all supported her

in order to try to keep some economic viability to our rural neighborhood (rather than selling out to developers). It was just one hateful, resentful neighbor who opposed her. He thought the horse arena in our historically agricultural area would make HIS selling to developers (!) less valuable. The rest of us had horses, ducks, geese, goats, tiny vinyards. We supported her keepng our area in its traditional agricultural mode. It cost her many thousands $$$ to fight this 12" error that had been passed by the county. After she won, she put several thousands of dollars into landscaping the horse arena in order to camouflage it. It was a 'thank you' to her neighbors who stood by her.

[Warpy]

14. A call doesn't call anything

and if the county gets word of your renovations and you don't have a permit, they can make you tear it out and start over.

Get that permit if you need it.