Anyone have any opinion or experience with RTA cabinets?

[tkmorris]

My wife and I have decided to remodel our kitchen and had just about committed to some off-the-shelf but unfinished pre-made cabinets from our local big box store (Lowe's). They have oak face frames and doors and we bought a kickplate of the same material to test some stains and finishes. It came out beautifully but I am having some second thoughts about the rest of the cabinet. The box aside from the face is not plywood, but rather particle board, as are the bases.

I decided to look into RTA cabinets, but while there is a ton of "information" about these online I am finding that a great deal of it is astroturf reviews and blog posts by RTA distributors themselves. Needless to say that isn't very helpful and calls into question the veracity of any information found posted online. I know lots of people have purchased RTA cabinets, but finding out what they actually thought of them is another matter.

So, anyone ever used these? What was your experience? Quality? Recommended distributors or manufacturers? Any advice at all would be very welcome.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

1. I install those in apartment buildings because the client has a account with

lowe's. You don't see the sides when those cabinets are installed.Of course you do see the sides when you open the doors. Of course real wood is better but as to how do those cabinets look and hold up, the cabinets will look great and hold up well. As to the material-well that keeps your cost down. Particle board or press board is used in everything these days.The other way is to call some of your local cabinet shops and across your measurements get a ball park estimate . Don't squawk about press board ,just ask if the cabinets are all wood.
I don't know of any cabinet shop that would use press board.

All and all if yer not looking to spend very much money on really good ones, those cabinets will look just fine.
I almost bought the unfinished cabinets on a apartment I am currently working on,but it is too much of a hassle to stain those.So we took a stain color that I will have passed by as a rule.The client was in a lowe's across town and the decision was made over the phone, I happened to be in a lowe's buying plumbing parts.This particular client has a lowes account with my name as a user on it so on his projects I use lowes a lot.All in all it saves time which is money. Given what was there ,those will look great.

It takes about five weeks to have a order filled by a cabinet shop. On apartment turn overs thats too much time.
I usually get only two weeks notice about the job ,so theres a limit to down time. However on a residential home remodel , I would go through a cabinet shop. But than again, the customer will decide that.

You can also find discount cabinets too if you look around in the phone book and on line.

Again what you looked at will be fine and will hold up well. Not much of anything these days stands to abuse.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

2. On a short note

the renters say they love those kitchen cabinets or the kitchens. I can tell you those pre fab cabinets yer looking at are far better than the pre fabs of the eighties.I make it a point to ask because clients will ask me about that sort of thing. As an installer ,I would say those cabinets line up ok and are easy to install. Naturally I would have to say those cabinets look great because I do the install. So I gather opinions from those who live with it.

Now recently a tenant moved out of a unit I remodeled five years ago, and I went in to make minor repairs before it was turned over. Nothing needed to be done in the kitchen and those pre fab cabinets looked just as good as the day I day I did the install. So I was impressed ,there looking at the last ability and the finish look. You must consider that renters are not as a rule going to be too particularly careful ,or not careful in the same way a home owner is where it is about cabinetry and cabinets. Yer china cabinet example.

So from my experience I can tell you going back five years that those cabinets look good and hold up .I don't know if you have ever seen some of those pre fabs from the eighties, lamination over press board. you see your fronts and doors are real wood. That's the improvement in those pre fabs.Again press board is widely used in the building industry.And if you want all real wood, it comes at a cost,even if it;s china wood.Thats because of the import tax.
You can stain the press board on the sides if you want to. I never do!

Good luck with your project ,if there is anything else you wonder about pertaining to remodel, feel free to ask.

[Warpy]

9. While the top end, all wood cabinets look great while they're going in

you're really not going to see most of that wood once they're in there and the doors shut. In addition, wood can swell, shrink, and crack. Fibreboard is a pain to work with because it's so heavy, but it doesn't change with the weather and the cabinets will be rock stable no matter what the humidity is like.

I'm in the desert and will be going for the fibreboard cabinets for just that reason. Too much I have that's made out of wood has cracked in this dry climate.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

11. Some contractors I know will build everything out of particle board EXCEPT the sink base they'll use

... plywood. I suppose one could provide some extra waterproofing under the sink to protect against those once in a while leaks. I tiled my under the sink area when it started to look grubby after 10 years of spills and occasional drips.

Yes, plywood will hold up more in the long run but how long do you really need the cabinets to hold up? I just helped my neighbor repair/doctor up one of her upper cabinets after she suffered a bit of a blow-out. The sides of one of her dish cabinets buckled under the weight. The fasteners are pulling through the particle board. On the other hand, the cabinets are 15 years old and starting to look a little dated.

[Warpy]

12. I have a pretty pristine 1946 kitchen

with painted plywood cabinets. They're so out of date they're back in. They've held up through leaks and other disasters. They've got about 15 layers of paint on them, something I found when I stripped a set of doors to find out what they were made of and what I could do with them (not much besides add another coat of paint and spray paint the hardware).

Mrs. Froufrou can keep her all wood cabinets. When I replace these, they'll be particle board or plywood.

[marybourg]

13. I'm with you, Warpy (as usual) . When my 1978 laminate -over -pressboard

cabinets finally start fraying around the edges (it hasn't started yet) I'm getting RTS. I'm old enough to remember why people were happy to get rid of wooden kitchen floors and cabinets. I recently replaced my countertop with commercial grade laminate (they had to send to CA for commercial grade. All they use in AZ is vertical grade, even on horizontal surfaces) I had it made up the old-fashioned way, cut from a wide piece of laminate, so there's no seam in the corner. No maintenance and it'll probably last the rest of my life. No stainless appliances in my kitchen either and my 6 year old floors are seamless vinyl; no maintenance either and very pretty. I think all the new kitchen and bathroom materials are a high maintenance rip-off.

[tkmorris]

3. I never worried about the look of the particle board sides

There's always facings you can apply to them if you need to, though in my kitchen it should not be necessary. I was more concerned about their durability. You seem to indicate that in your experience they hold up well, which is reassuring. You saw no swelling or warping to speak of? I cook in my kitchen, daily, so they will have to endure some abuse. I know I can make those Lowe's cabinets LOOK fantastic, I just don't want to have to replace them in 5 years. Of course I also don't want to spent $3000 for custom designed cabinets either. :evilgrin:

Thanks for your input Desk Jet.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

6. We don't want to spend on high end either.

No swelling or water stains at all. And no scratches on the fronts. I installed a hood fan over the stove ,it is attached to the upper cabinets. No staining or swelling what so ever. I put tile at the sink area all the way up to the upper cabinets The base cabinet at the sink remains in perfect condition as well. There I am also accounting for under the sink. There is where you would expect to see damage. Proper care is all it takes. Those tenants as it so happens took very good care of the unit.

I installed cabinets imported from china about a year ago on a different project, those cabinets look fine, Granite counter tops too from China. I went through a supplier so my cost was far less than yours would be. It all looked good. However the import tax has raised the prices considerably on China imports today. We see a lot of business's that sell china import stuff going out of business because of the tax hike. China tires for cars were hot sellers for example.

I think your really going to like your new kitchen.
It's this way on a remodel, you save in some places and spend some of yer saving on specialty items along the way. Little ideas that develop in the process that make your kitchen a better place !

Good Luck.
Let us know how progress goes

[Stinky The Clown]

4. We put RTAs in a house we're renovating

They're maple faces with plywood sides. These were never represented as "high end" cabinets. They're made - where else? - in China. They look terrific installed. The interiors are nicely finished and the look is kind of high end, though the price was not.

There are some downsides:

~ The fasteners are plastic. The design, however, is such that the plastic winds up not carrying any great load.

~ The shelves are finished on one side only. This bugged me. Do you put the unfinished side up so it gets stained from leaks or spills or do you put the unfinished side down so it can be seen in the upper cabinets.

~ Quality control was a bit lacking. Two of the doors have some imperfections in the center panel's face veneer. The tops and backs are just plain ugly (like the C side of plywood), but since they're hidden, who cares?

I bought these from a small dealer who sells doors, windows, and cabinets. While they were RTA, he assembled them for me, which is part of his sales pitch. Even assembled, the price was way below the big boxes and way, WAY below the cabinet specialty stores. I had to disassemble a few of the cabinets and make a few modifications to some, so I also got the feel of what it was like to work with them. Very easy.

I also have experience with very high end wood cabinets (in our master bath when we last renovated). The difference is in the finish, the thickness of the sides, and the quality of the drawers. You get what you pay for ..... sort of. The RTAs seemed a fair price for the value. The high end, in retrospect, seems like it was overpriced, even in view of their inherent higher quality.

I would do RTA again. I would also feel better if they had metal cam lock hardware instead of the plastic mine have. As I said, the design is such that the plastic, once assembled, carries almost no load, but still .... I could see them breaking during assembly. Maybe that was why my guy assembles them "free of charge".

[tkmorris]

7. As it happens I got a hands-on on some today

They were exactly as you describe but these had metal fasteners of a type I have not seen before. They have a sort of latch, with a metal flap that stands up but is rotated to be flush with the cabinet wall to lock to the cam. Impressively secure for a fastener of this type.

In any case thanks Stinky. Just the sort of feedback I was looking for.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

5. Check out this thread at JLC.

It's a professionals only site so you shouldn't join the discussion (they get REALLY pissy). Some good info though.

http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30358&highlight=cabinets

[tkmorris]

8. Thanks Hassin, I'll be quiet as a mouse.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

10. It's a pretty neat site.

I'm registered but don't post even though I could "technically" be considered a "pro". You have to be registered to view photos and links so I maintain an account.

I've learned a lot about materials, techniques and tricks of the trade. The Building Science forum can make for some interesting threads re: insulation and moisture/water management. I'm planning on building a cabin/summer house so I am always interested in that stuff. The Tools and Equipment forum is pretty cool too. They're always on the lookout for good deals and they post their finds on the forum - I've taken advantage of a few deals posted. I have a bad tool habit so the bargains help. You know, "I can't afford NOT to buy this tool" LOL.

They can be pretty brutal to the hapless homeowner who wanders through without reading the terms of service. Also, there are quite a few "Joe The Plumber" and "Going Galt" types so I would probably get banned if I did post.