Multi-ethnic relationships comparison to gay marriage issue-

[bliss_eternal]

how have you felt about that?

When this administration announced it's desire to do away w/gay marriage some gay rights activists compared gay marriage being illegal to the times in the south when it was illegal to marry interracially. As a multi-ethnic/IR relationship, do you feel it this is an appropriate comparison? Or do you feel it isn't? Please share why--

:)

[grace0418]

1. I feel like it's an excellent comparison

Consenting adults who want to enter a committed relationship should be allowed to do so. Why should anyone else care what they do in the bedroom or what color their skin is?

[kwassa]

2. I think it is a poor analogy

As much as I think that gays should be able to marry, and have exactly the same rights as anyone else, I feel about this the same way I feel about comparisons between the gay rights movement and the civil rights movement.

The great difference is that gay person can usually hide their gay sexual orientation but a black person can never hide their black skin. A gay person can appear straight, but a black person can never appear white (except for a very few people that I have met ...).

The other issue is the belief as to whether or not the concept of marriage is defined by the opposite sex and the production of children. This has nothing to do with race at all, of course. There are interracial conservative couples that would believe it immoral for gays to "marry" ; I read an interview with such a couple protesting at the CapitoL Mall.

[grace0418]

3. But just because there are conservative interracial couples

who oppose gay marriage doesn't mean they're right. In fact I think it's sad that they can't see how hypocritical it is to expect acceptance from others if you're not willing to give it yourself.

And while I understand your point about black people not being able to hide that they're black while gay people can appear straight (you apparently haven't met some of my gay friends but that's another story ;)), we're talking about interracial marriage v. gay marriage not racism v. homophobia. A gay couple can't pretend to be a straight couple any more than an interracial couple can pretend to be a single-race couple, except in a few rare instances in both cases.

[bliss_eternal]

4. ..while someone's sexual preferences aren't anyone else's business

why should someone that is gay want to hide who and what they are just to 'blend'better into society's ideals of normalcy? I don't think they should have to, even if they could.

(Just trying to support your statements grace :) )

[grace0418]

6. Thanks

I actually saw some right-wing idiot on the news say something like "We're not saying that gay people shouldn't be able to get married! We're just saying they have to marry someone of the opposite gender."

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, that makes it all okay. So a gay man is supposed to marry someone he doesn't love because the person he does love is the wrong gender. That'll make for a wonderful marriage. There's nothing a woman enjoys more than being married to a man who doesn't love her, never did and never will.

Maybe super-right wing fundie conservatives don't see anything wrong with that argument because none of them are happy at all. How can you be happy when you're afraid of living, afraid of dying, afraid of anyone who is different than you? When you're taught so much contradictory information about sex and love and acceptance and right and wrong? It's no wonder they don't understand why the rest of us actually want to have happy marriages and happy lives. They're all so bitter and scared and confused they don't know what happy is. But they think if they tear the rest of us down they might eventually find out.

[bliss_eternal]

7. You are SO right--I have yet to meet one fundie or repub

couple that are REALLY happy.

Dh and I spent some time with one of brothers and his family a while ago. What a nightmare! The way they talk to each other, the way they behave. Not once in the time we were there did I see them have a positive interaction w/each other or their children. The ONLY time they seemed anywhere near happy--they were drinking. :(

Those kids are so starved for attention--all their parents do is buy them things and shuttle them from one activity to the next. They barely talk to them. They were amazed when we spent five minutes talking to their daughter and found out what she liked and wanted as a gift--they said when they asked the kids shrugged and they didn't try to engage them in conversation further. WTF? They are YOUR children!

I wonder why they even had kids--oh wait, they are SUPPOSED to. That's what sex is for right?

My husband thinks we make them uncomfortable because it is obvious we actually like and care about each other. LOL!
;)

[kwassa]

8. I also don't think historically that there was the organized society wide

resistance to interracial couples that we are currently seeing to gay couples. Interracial marriages never had this national profile, where state after state is enacting laws against it. I would have to go back and research it, but I believe that laws against interracial couples varied widely by state, with many states having no such laws at all.

Gay couples are highly visible right now, when they chose to be public in their relationship. Looking at any gay or straight couple, though, will not tell me whether they are married or not, absent rings, of course. I see couples as couples anyways.

[davidinalameda]

9. actually people can pass for different races

you've never heard of an African-American being able to pass for white

and my ex-brother in law who is full blooded Italian got death threats during the Iranian hostage thing because people thought he was Iranian

[bliss_eternal]

10. If I may gently offer a correction dwickham--some have...

Prior to the civil rights movement in this country, there were some blacks that were bi-racial or very fair in their complexion that did 'pass for white' so to speak.

It created a great deal of resentment among the race that still exists to this day--for some blacks that have olive complexions or features that are different from what those outside the race may not recognize as 'african american or black.'

I've read some articles on the internet from those that are biracial and actually look caucasian to some. They have suffered a whole other kind of bigotry--in that they are sometimes privy to the comments of bigots that assume they are caucasian and have said racist things in front of them. I also recall reading a similiar article by a woman in Essence quite a few years ago.

Think about actress Jennifer Beals. They have actually created some interesting story lines on her show the L Word around this very issue. Where another black woman questions her 'blackness' because she doesn't necessarily look it. So she assumes (erroneously) that she hid behind that identity and didn't embrace her ethnicity.

Sorry for the book--lol.

:)

[bliss_eternal]

11. Sorry dwickham--I seem to have misunderstood your post

We seem to have been in agreement all along. I've got to stop reading and responding to posts when I haven't had much sleep.

Take care,
Bliss :)

[bliss_eternal]

5. I made this argument myself when the proposition was introduced

several years ago in CA.

People we once thought of as friends, had a big sign on their lawn endorsing the proposition (it was against gay marriage if memory serves). Anyway, dh and I tried to ignore it--but they brought it up--went on about how they were protecting married couple's rights, blah, blah. :eyes:

I asked them point blank how was it hurting our marriages. I also asked them if they personally wanted to be there to make important decisions for those that are gay and are dying when they are at the end of their lives. I asked them who should make decisions for the dying person, if they are estranged from their family of origin based on the fact that they are gay.

While they sat there blinking and looking confused,:crazy: I went on to tell them that the same arguments they were making for this bigoted proposition were the same arguments people made in this country when people that were different races wanted to get married. I asked them if they thought myself and my husband shouldn't be together because we didn't look the same.

While I didn't marry my husband to make a political statement, I have no problems at all with using our relationship and marriage as an example, to support those that are having a similiar struggle in the states (as people like us once had). I don't see it as a 'same sex' issue. I just see it as two human beings that want to love one another and have the same rights as any other human beings that love each other have.

So in that respect I completely agree with the argument that this is like IR couples being denied the right in earlier years.

Maybe this is overly simplistic of me. I don't know. This is how I feel from the heart...