Help! I don't understand...

[bliss_eternal]

how anyone could use the bible (or any text) to justify denying gays civil rights?

Recently spoke to a friend I had lost contact with. We got into this conversation, and it just frustrates me. She is so adamant that while they don't condone those that are abusive to gays or would try to harm them in any way--she won't advocate their entitlement to civil rights. (????)

She goes on and on quoting me chapter and verse about god stating in the bible that gays are not promised the kingdom of heaven and their riches. (Something in I Corinthian, I believe--sorry, I guess I block it because I disagree and dislike hearing the bible used this way).

She goes on to speak in a very suspicious way of the 'gay agenda' of the last ten years or so--and why she'll never say that they are entitled to civil rights based on the bible.

It really makes me angry!

It reminds me of watching Mississippi Burning where people used the bible to deny blacks civil rights (some still do).

I just don't think I can remain friends with someone that is so willing to deny people rights based on who they have sex with--it just feels inhumane and cruel to me...

I don't understand at all. How can someone be so dogmatic, and use the bible in such a way?

Oh--and she's concerned about my spiritual well being, because I no longer go to church. Too much bush praise for my taste...

[RevCheesehead]

1. She's concerned that you aren't drinking the Kool-Aid.

Yes, there are passages in scripture that speak against homosexual behavior - but there are a few things to remember:
1. The passage in Leviticus is part of the Law. If you're going to adhere to that, then you need to follow ALL of Leviticus. No pork, no cheeseburgers, etc., if your child sasses you, have them put to death, and so on.
2. Paul's interpretation of homosexual behavior is not directly related to a sexual orientation. He is condemning ancient cultic and societal practices of sex with temple priests/priestesses, and the practice of pederasty (a man/boy relationship) - a relationship that one could in no way consider to be between two consenting adults.
3. Jesus NEVER speaks about homosexuality at all. But he does have a lot to say about loving one another, and accepting the outcasts. Something tells me that if he welcomed tax collectors and prostitutes, he would welcome homosexuals... and why not? After all, he's accepted ME. :)

[bliss_eternal]

2. LOL--I like the way you put that Rev!

...and no, I guess I'm not drinking it.

Well, she does eat pork, cheeseburgers and may have to kill herself for sassing her parents. LOL!

Sunday school WAS a looong time ago for me, so I never am a good person to fight those 'scriptural battles' with people. Seeing as I no longer attend church, one could probably just write me off as a heathen anyway. LOL. Which she probably does.

I just can't buy into that perspective (and won't) no matter what evidence she presents. I think THAT'S wrong.

I don't want to label human beings as 'right' or 'wrong' in the sight of god, and then damn them to hell... it doesn't feel appropriate by any means to me. :(

I guess I will never understand how or why it's so easy for some to write off human beings and justify their intolerance with 'biblical texts' and god.

But thank you very much for the proof and encouragement--I appreciate it! :hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

3. Most of the condemnations of homosexuality are based on Leviticus,

which is so clearly the lawbook of one ancient society that it's almost like an anthropological description.

Anyone who uses Leviticus to condemn gays needs to know the following as well:

1. During menstruation and for a couple of weeks after childbirth, everything a woman touches becomes unclean.

2. No meat and milk together, and no shellfish.

3. If a young girl who is not betrothed is raped, she has to marry her rapist. However, if she was raped in town, where she could have cried for help, she's guilty of unchastity and must be stoned to death.

4. Houses can get leprosy.

5. No one who has a disability can enter the house of God.

[bliss_eternal]

4. Wow--

So isn't it incredibly limiting to live according to the 'old book' so to speak?

[RevCheesehead]

5. That's the point Jesus was trying to drive home to the Pharisees.

But he also said (rightly), "I have come not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it."

The whole eye for eye thing, for example.... "You have heard it said,... but I say to you...." Over and over, Jesus is reminding them that they are the ones who have made the Law into something punitive - a needless burden which no one could carry. And, of course, the great commandment: Love God and neighbor. Upon this hangs the Law and the Prophets.

Pharisees didn't get it then (except Nicodemus, and later, Paul); and the Fundies don't get it now. They want it to be an exclusive club, where only the best of certain people go. All the rest go to hell, in their eyes.

Damned liberal Jesus - trying to lower the standards so that everyone can get in. He just doesn't understand good business practice.