why isn't stopping illegal immigration a dem issue?

[Krinkov]

Not sure why this is a conservative issue aside from racism -- cheap labor without benefits and few rights, and little or no power to unionize seems like an ideal situation for many conservatives. In fact, the farther economically right you go, the more support there is for open borders.

It doesn't make sense that anyone who supports social programs, where we try to produce as much good for as many needy citizens as possible with as little money as necessary, could be lax on non citizens who arent here legally adding to the number of people that have to be provided for. Not to mention the effect illegals have on labor situation in this country, the high percentage of illegals costing tax dollars to imprison, emergency medical care, etc..

They need to crack down on companies that hire them while adequately funding border security and patching up the holes.

Its also patently unfair to immigrants who have gone through all the waiting and bureaucracy to become legitimate residents, or those that have finally taken that oath and become Americans.

Amnesty might be inevitable (i cant see us splitting up/ejecting families where the kids are born here, or deporting illegal armed servicemen) but the only way it will mean anything is if it comes after a total shutdown on undocumented immigrants coming in. You want a peice of America, you have to come in the old fashioned way like every other (non mayflower and non african american) person.
I'm surprised that after september 11th it wasn't one of the first things to be done. Well, not really, but i won't stray off topic.

[BuyingThyme]

1. Republicans want to lower the labor rates....

...and Democrats want to help those who need help.

But claiming that "nobody will do the work, otherwise" is a load of garbage, and it denigrates American labor.

Americans will be perfectly willing to do the harvesting or cleaning or whatever as long as the employers pay market rates. The jobs that people would rather not do are the jobs that should pay MORE, not less.

SHAME on the Democrats who denigrate American labor. SHAME on the Democrats who undermine capitalism. SHAME on the democrats who work against the needs of their legitimate constituents.

[blurp]

2. Stopping "macho" immigration, not just illegal, is important.

I'm especially concerned with the culture of homophobia south of the border.

It's very true. There is a strong "macho" tradition and general intolerance.

This is one area where Republicans are making connections with Hispanics.

On social issues, Republicans and Hispanics (men especially) are very similar.

[Krinkov]

8. uuhhh..

would that become a criteria on immigration forms?

I'm not talking about stopping latin men, or blocking certain cultures from immigrating..

i'm talking about illegals, most of whom happen to be coming in from the south.

[bowens43]

3. Wow. I don't know what to say.

You really have swallowed the anti Hispanic lies hook line and sinker.
If being xenophobic ever does become a Democratic issue , I will leave the party.

BTW , speaking of 911,, did you realize that most of those involved were here legally?

There other lies, distortions and misconceptions in you post but I feel sudden need for a shower so I won't respond.

[Krinkov]

9. this isn't about xenophobia

LEGAL immigration is a great part of our nation. My post is about ILLEGALS.

I'd like to hear your arguments, when you're done cleaning yourself off.

[DrGonzoLives]

14. Blah blah blah racist blah blah blah

Come up with something original to say next time.

[Mr.Green93]

4. Because

it is their country.

[SHRED]

6. Really...

The U.S. belongs to India?

[illflem]

5. After farming for over 40 years

I can honestly say that if I had to depend on non-Hispanic Americans to do the harvest it wouldn't happen. There are definitely jobs Americans don't want to do. When my workers go by piece rate a good worker makes over $200 a day, hourly rates in my area are $2/hr over minimum wage so pay isn't the problem.
This is why when Reagan enacted immigration reform in the '80s that in order for an illegal to be granted amnesty they were required to work in agriculture for five years. After they become citizens Hispanics don't want to do Ag work either. This is why the trend in Ag is rapidly going towards mechanization but there will always be less than desirable jobs that a machine will never be able to do.

[Wright Patman]

7. The taxpayers subsidized

you massively over a 40-year period, even if you didn't participate in any of the federal farm subsidy programs.

The cost of unreimbursed health care alone--much less public education, prisons, etc.--makes undocumented immigrant labor a losing proposition for the rest of us.

I don't eat enough (usually only one meal a day) for you to say the lower cost of food makes up for what I've paid out in taxes.

Someone else mentioned amnesty followed by border control. That's what was promised in 1986. It didn't happen. Lucy is the federal government holding the football and the rest of us are Charlie Brown.

As for the 'anti-xenophobe' (a misnomer as there is nothing xenophobic about honoring citizenship and enforcing the law) who will leave the party should the Democrats support measures to stop illegal immigration, I would say there will be millions of new Democrats to take your place. Buh-bye.

[Gene Starwind]

10. Immigration should be automatically legal.

In my opinion, not only is there not a need to crack down on illegal immigration, but it is wrong to do so. If it is numbers one is worried about, then making immigration automatically legal would eliminate this problem. It would also help to keep companies from exploiting these immigrants because all workers would be legal. I see no justification for a crackdown on the borders.

[rememberingGandhi]

11. Maybe legal is impractical...

Oftentimes, when the legal is impractical that creates incentives to break the law. I do not think one can simply say "illegal" immigration is wrong. Yes, it is... but... the more fundamental question is: what ground rules and principles should apply to immigration?

[Pooka Fey]

12. The answer IMHO is that we Americans of all racial backgrounds

are not ALLOWED to talk about illegal immigration. The minute the subject comes up any person in the vicinity of the conversation will immediately be labeled a racist. Notice how you did not not mention ANY particular group in your post, yet you were immediately subjected to a pointed and heated personal criticism labeling you a xenophobe against Hispanics. This is because you DARED to mention that American taxpaying citizens might have an opinion about how their social programs should best be utilized, and by whom.

Americans now have no voice in determining how illegal immigration is affecting our culture, because we will be labeled "racists" if we say anything about it. I have an obstacle to finding employment in the social/public services of the state & city government in my area because most agencies state "bilingual preferred". Although I am bilingual, I'm not English / Spanish bilingual. In this area, the U.S. Southwest, bilingual has come to mean Spanish/English; although this nation has a long history of immigration from all parts of the world & people speaking multitudes of languages - so really bilingual should mean English and any out of thousands of languages.

Immigration, legal or illegal, has an effect on our culture and our society. People who scream racism smother the dialog that would help us collectively determine what changes benefit us as Americans, and which changes do not.

I'm sure the person who had to shower will be taking out the hatchet on me very shortly, and then re-showering. :evilgrin:

[erpowers]

13. I Think It Is

I think it is. Democrats just have different ideas about how to end illegal immgration. Democrats do not want to do the extreme things like putting up walls on the borders. John Kerry brought up the issue during the election. I do not remember what he said, but I know he talked about the issue.

[SHRED]

15. If the Dems...

were out front in stopping illegal immigration (from all countries) they would gain so many new voters. I live in SoCal.
Seems to me that the our Dem leaders need to become more inline with the labor unions on this issue and quit being wishy washy on issues like driver's licenses.

Solutions?
(1) Determine which jobs we will allow for immigrant work.
(2) Develop a tamper-proof National I.D. card.
(3) Enact very strict employer sanctions much like the drug war. Loss of
property/business license/supplies and prison time.
(4) Place agents in the field for random checks.

We need to go after the bastards that are using cheap illegal labor at our expense. Dry up the source.

[Joanne98]

17. A three-strikes and you out law for employers.

On the third strike you lose your business license. I'm from CA two. Imperial Beach San Diego.

[Joanne98]

16. I think illegal immigration is one of our worse issues.

In fact it's stupid. The republicans love the illegal work force. They lower our wages, bankrupt our social programs and bust up our unions. Democrats think all these illegals are going to be dems some day but alot of them are really religious and there turning out to be VALUE VOTERS. This is another idiotic idea. If you look at the polling data legal immigrates voted for that bill in Arizona. The dems are clueless.