Man held in McCartney case

[two gun sid]

From The Guardian:

Angelique Chrisafis, Ireland correspondent
Tuesday April 5, 2005
The Guardian

Police were last night questioning a 31-year-old man in connection with the murder of Robert McCartney, who was stabbed to death after a row with republicans in a Belfast bar.

The man, believed to be from the nationalist Markets area of Belfast, walked into a police station outside Belfast with his solicitor to be interviewed.

McCartney, 33, a father-of- two, died when he was attacked by IRA men outside Magennis's Bar on January 30. The IRA later expelled three of its members over what it termed the "brutal" killing. Sinn Féin has suspended seven members while police investigate.

Despite the Sinn Féin leadership's calls for the killers to give themselves up, police have not yet charged anyone in connection with the murder. So far, 12 people have been questioned and released.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,2763,1452401,00.html

[Maeve]

1. He's been released

Can't find the original, but it's mentioned here:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0405/mccartneyr.html

Meanwhile, police in Belfast have released a man without charge after questioning him about the murder.

The 31-year-old, who is understood to be from the Markets area of the city, had walked into a police station with a solicitor yesterday to be interviewed.

[two gun sid]

2. Man, PSNI really knows how to crack a case.

No doubt it's all Sinn Fein's fault that the former RUC can't do it's job.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

3. Ain't that the truth, Sid..

Maybe they should get Andy and Barney Fife on the case.

Pathetic, absolutely pathetic....

[RogueTrooper]

4. All the forensic evidence was cleaned

the pub was scrubbed after the murder. With no witnessess of value coming forward and no forensice evidence there is little that the police can do.

[two gun sid]

5. Yes, that's what I have read....

what I don't understand is how they can tell the media so much about the 'Ra's involvement yet, they have no evidence? It's all been scrubbed. It seems to me they are attempting to discredit the republican movement, Sinn Fein and the IRA. They don't give a damn about McCartney's death.

Over the last month all that I have read and heard leads me to believe that it is just PSNI playing politics with this issue and the bank heist. If they have no evidence that is what they need to say. How are the republicans ever going to trust them if all they do is play politics with issues that need to be addressed in a professional manner?

Ireland and her people deserve better than this.

<edit for less offensive language>

[RogueTrooper]

9. Ireland and Northern Ireland in particular

are small communities. The pub was a Republican pub in a Republican area of NI. What you know and what you can prove are not always the same thing.

We know George W. Bush went AWOL during his time in TANG but we do not have the proof of his law breaking to take him to court.

The bank raid has certainly been used by the establishment ( particularly the Irish government ) for political gain. This has been done by the main political parties in both the north and the south. The mainland UK parties have, for the most part, let the NI parties carry the water on this one.

The McCartney murder has also been used for political gain but the driving force has been the McCarthey sisters. I am not going to pretend to be an expert in the sentiment of Republican communities but, from what I have gathered, their is a view that the catholic community has beaten back one totalitarian evironment just to have it replaced with another.

The Bank raid affected SF's credibility and relationships with powerblocks outside their own community. The McCartney affected SF's credibility and relationships within their own community. It amplified those problems outside.

The PSNI, unlike the reviled RUC, is %50 Catholic for it's police officers. Unfortunatly, it still does not have credibility with all elements of the various NI communities( both Protestant and Catholic as it happens ). I would not be surprised if the PSNI starts to gain more credibility over the medium term.

[Maeve]

10. Correction--the goal is 50% Catholic recruitment

The actual application rate since 2001 has been 36% Catholic. Civilian staff percentage of Catholic has risen from 12.3% in 1999 to only 14.4% in 2004. (Overseeing the Proposed Revisions for the Policing Services of Northern Ireland - Report 12 - Published 14.12.2004)
http://www.oversightcommissioner.org/reports/default.asp?page=reports

[RogueTrooper]

11. Corrected

I will take your word for it Maeve. I got my info from The Irish Times but I could have been mistaken in what I read.

[Maeve]

12. I really do hope they meet their goal

And that the sectarian police issue disappears into the dustbin where it belongs. I also wish they would put an end to the use of plastic bullets altogether, instead of switching to "kinder, gentler" bullets.

I admit to a nationalist/republican bias and I know I tend to get a bit passionate on the subject. I'm glad you haven't given up talking back to me! :toast:

[Maeve]

6. Long record of bad police work

Four men were just arrested this week in the murder of Patsy Kelly from 1974, the first arrest ever in the investigation and that with loyalist paramilitaries taking credit for the killing.

In 1999, former UDR soldier David Jordan broke down in a bar and told people present that he had been present the night that his UDR colleagues murdered Mr Kelly. Mr Jordan named the men involved.

Mr Jordan died in 2001 but there have been calls for his body to be exhumed for postmortem because of the suspicious circumstances in which he died.

There were serious shortcomings in the original RUC investigation into Mr Kelly’s killing. The RUC was accused of colluding with the UDR to protect Mr Kelly’s murderers.

Pat Fahy, the Kelly family’s solicitor, said fingerprints at the murder scene had never been checked. Nothing was done to investigate footprints matching those of army-issue boots, he said.

Daily Ireland

And then there's Gary Campbell, gunned down by the UVF in 1990. And Blair is now making sure the government links to the death of Pat Finucane in 1989 won't come out--hearings will be held in secret....


Feh.

[mrgorth]

7. C'mon guys

I'm as pro-RA as the next guy but they offered to shoot the fucks. They were renegade volunteers.

[Maeve]

8. I'd really like to know the context of that offer

If it were a serious, "we could take care of it ourselves" thing or a "we kicked them out, what do we have to do to make you happy? Shoot them?" sort of offer... :shrug:

I'm waiting to see the response to Gerry Adams call for the Army to become peaceful fighters and take back the initiative on the peace process. Politics is the "bearna bhaoil", the gap of danger, point of battle, now.

[Guy_Montag]

13. Here you go:

Taken directly from the IRA statement

*snip*
The IRA representatives detailed the outcome of the internal disciplinary proceedings thus far and stated in clear terms that the IRA was prepared to shoot the people directly involved in the killing of Robert McCartney.

The McCartney family raised their concerns with the IRA representatives.

These included: Firstly, the family made it clear that they did not want physical action taken against those involved. They stated that they wanted those individuals to give a full account of their actions in court.
*snip*

From:

http://breaking.tcm.ie/text/story.asp?j=101182200&p=yxyy8z7z5&n=101182802&x=

[Maeve]

14. Actually, that still isn't context

Just reporting--and rather dry, at that.

However, from other sources, I gather that the IRA thinks of itself as an army/governmental entity and takes the attitude that it has the same rights as other armies/governments--while they will punish criminality in their own ranks using their own methods, they will not turn members over to another system for trial, especially one that they see as an "enemy" force. Ironically, this leads to the same sort of abuses they decry in the British government (in the murders of Pat Finucane and Rosemary Nelson, for example). As long as military groups regard themselves as a law unto themselves, such abuses will continue.

As I have stated elsewhere, I think the time has come for the IRA to stand down entirely, and the republican movement should stick to political means.

[Guy_Montag]

15. Sorry I should have made it clear, the link contains the full statement

but I really don't want to infringe IRA copyright.

[Maeve]

16. Oh, I read the full statement

I just don't think it places the offer in context because the IRA writer doesn't see past his own POV and doesn't realize how it appears to someone outside the IRA box. That is what I was trying to explain in my last post--how they see it. It's not quite the same as an American wiseguy "We could whack 'em for ya" offer, but still outside the realm of acceptable civil society (IMO, so is the US Army's death sentence for Akbar, for that matter).

I firmly believe in the need to understand how the various sides see themselves to get beyond the fighting (Hell, I even try to figure out Paisley! He seems to think he's another Churchill, but doesn't want to admit he's as Irish as Gerry Adams)