Can alcoholics ever drink socially again?

[Heddi]

Hi. I'm Heddi and I'm a nursing student. I'm not an alcholoic, although my family is filled with them--some of them were able to combat their addictions, some not.

I'm asking this because I'm taking a psychology class and one of the books we're reading is "What You Can Change..And What You Can't" By Martin Seligman.

In it, he goe through a littany of things that are changeable (depression) and things that aren't (sexual orientation)

He has a chapter devoted to alcoholism as an addiction, and says that alcholics that go through successful therapy can, in some instances, be 'sober' yet still engage in social drinking without falling back into their addictions.

I was curious about this. He lists studies that followed alcoholics from youth (before they were alcoholics) through adulthood--I think the study was conducted over 50 years. And several of the alcoholics were able to stop drinking alcohol addictively, but still drink socially without falling off the wagon.

This interested me because, as I said, I have people with many addictions in my family:

My mother is addicted to pain pills

My grandmother is addicted to gambling

Her brother was an alcoholic, although now he's more of a dry-drunk

Her mother (my great-grandmother) was an alcoholic for several years and only stopped after the Dr told her her chirrosis would kill her if she drank anymore

Many members of my family are compulsive over-eaters.

Also, Seligman claims there is no such thing as an addictive personality---I don't know if I agree with this. I've seen my once-alcoholic uncle turn into a compulsive overeater and compulsive sports fan. So much that both interrupt his life in the way that alcohol did before he quit cold-turkey.

Aside from my family, I've known several alcoholics as either friends or co-workers, and none of them were able to socially drink after sobriety. One drink would lead to 10, would lead to blackouts and struggles with sobriety all over again.

What are your thoughts on this? I'm interested to know because I think that, in many cases, personal experiences are much more relevant than broad, generalized studies.

I hope you don't mind this question, but I'm honestly interested in whether this is psychobabble (I disagree with much of what he says in this book), or is actually rooted in fact

Thanks so much

hed

[Steven_S]

1. I think Seligman is right....

"Some" alcoholics in "some" instances being the qualifier. I am not one of them. I know some who can drink socially. But of course I don't know what's going on in their head as to their compulsion.

I might be able to drink socially again, but I can't guarantee it and the results might be catastrophic. Not worth the risk.

I do not agree with his assertion about the addictive personality. Many people are prone or pre-disposed to compulsions and/or addictions, and often drift from one to another in the course of their lives; and even when some are trying to get a handle on things they seem to go from one substance or behavior to another.

It was exactly that facet of my personality that needed extensive work for a number of years before I could honestly say that I was not addicted to anything.

My personal experiences consist of 15 years trying to kill myself, followed by 19 years trying to live.

[Heddi]

2. Yeah. I agree with you

I think to write a book about what you can change in your life (addictions being one of them) and then to state so casually that "hey, SOME people CAN drink socially after being alcoholics" is kind of...Idon'tknow...irresponsible? How do you know you're one of those people (or not) until you have that first drink and see what the results are? I think for people who are alcoholics, that is too great a risk to take.

To me, it's akin to saying "Here, open this box. For SOME people, there'll be $1 million inside. For all the others, there will be a bomb inside. You won't know until you open the box and either become rich, or become dead. Make the choice"

Seeing the struggles that my family members have with addiction, I can't say that I'd ever encourage anyone to 'just try one'. I don't even know if I could actually support them if they chose to do it. That, to me, would be too close to the enabling factor that enabled their addiction to begin with.

Thanks for your input, though. I really appreciate your candor on this matter.

hed

[2Design]

3. go to al anon meeting and find out - it is for the families

and from what you have said - you qualify

also you could go to aa meeting too - open meeting and find out too

[KitchenWitch]

4. My guess is that Seligman is confusing the truly alcoholic with the

situational problem drinker. I personally know people who were very heavy hitters when they were in their teens and twenties who seemed to "grow out of it" after awhile. They drank and drugged nearly as heavy as I did, but for some reason, never had the compulsion...therefore I consider them to be not truly alcoholic.

I know for myself, I can never even take just one drink, lest I end up in the gutter again.

[Heddi]

5. That's an interesting point that I never thought about

I know for myself that there are times when I can drink anyone under the rug, and I used to do alot of drinking when I was a teen and in my early 20's. I never was driven to drink, though. It was social, and it was in large quantities, but I never did it outside of social situations.

I wonder if there's such a thing as social alcoholism....like the binge drinkers in college who never really binge drink after they graduate...

I was concerned when I was younger and drinking every time I went out (which was often) knowing my own family history with addictions, particualarly alchol. I could justify it now (and then) by saying "well, I didn't drink during the day, and it really didn't affect my jobs or relationships" but I wonder if that's just because I didn't let it get to that point, or what?

Thanks so much for your honesty. I appreciate your comments and you've given me a concept to chew on that I hadn't thought about before.

Thanks again

hed

[Justpat]

6. Binge drinkers are often the most difficult to get sober.

They can always fall back on the rationalization that they are
not as bad as the daily drinkers. It works for many for a long
time.

[Heddi]

7. The book alluded to that

saying that people on the extreme ends of the alcoholism scale---the light drinkers, and those that reach rock bottom, are the ones who have the highest rate of getting sober. Those who are in the middle--the 'heavy' drinkers and 'binge' drikers have a problem that's too tough to quit on their own (like light-drinking alcoholics), and haven't hit rock-bottom like full blown alcoholics.

This is a very interesting discussion. I really appreciate everyone's input and candor with regards to their own personal situation. I really do appreciate it!!!

heddi

[Justpat]

8. That's what we are here for.

[NMDemDist2]

9. agreed. n/t

[Joe Chi Minh]

18. It seems pretty clear, doesn't it,

that a heavy drinker is not necessarily an alcoholic. There are probably far more heavy drinkers, who could stop immediately, if they felt a fraction of the shame and self-loathing many alcoholics I imagine, feel.

[NMDemDist2]

10. as a nursing student, do some research on the studies done of the

liver function differences in alcoholics and non alkies

AA had a Doctor back in the 30's that saw alcoholism as an "allergy" and studies since then seem to show that many alcoholics are missing a liver enzyme present in most "normal" drinkers.

An interesting topic of study no doubt.

and good luck with your mom, it's a difficult situation :hug:

[astral]

11. If you are alcoholic, and are concerned about your drinking,

then you should not even ask the question, "maybe I can drink 'NORMALLLY' later on?" because the point is, if alcohol is that important to you obviously it's not going to work.

Yes I have known one to announce he is an "Ex-alcoholic," and from time to time will taunt his fate by having a "FEW" beers and then stopping.

Hats off to him, as they say, I am just happy I don't HAVE to drink, and would never play Russian roullette with MY gift of sobriety.

It does take all kinds, though, Heddi, and you know, the black-and-white answer that what works for AA followers does not have to work for others.

The truth is the truth for me, and if it is something different to someone else, I find that very interesting.

The miracle begins when you wake up in the morning, one day, and realize you have not been thinking about drinking at all for quite some time now, you have only been thinking about living. That's when you realize you have your freedom without alcohol, and that alcohol had you in prison. You want some more? It's always your choice.

Some can do it alone, some can do it with a good book or a good church, but the important thing to realize is that it is something you "DO," it is not something that just "happens" to you.

(I use the term "you" as in nobody in particular, not meaning to be directing it at Heddi who started this thread.)

[Heddi]

14. There was a quote in the book

that was a Chinese proverb. it went something like this:

At first, the man takes the drink
then the drink takes the drink
then the drink takes the man.

As I've said throughout this thread, I appreciate everyone's candor with regards to this subject.

You've all given me an insight into this that we've not covered in school (perhaps later, when we discuss addictions and mental illness), and things I've not thought about when dealing with the addictions in my own family.

Thank you. I've been really educated here :)

[Heddi]

15. Interesting thought

I've not heard of that, but it makes sense to me in a cursory way. I'm intrigued and plan to do more research on it.

Thanks for the wishes for my mom. I appreciate it :)

[wildeyed]

17. That is what I read, too.

That alcoholic's liver function is different, and that in the later stages of the disease, the alcoholics reaction to alcohol has more in common with a normal person's reaction to heroin that a normal person's reaction to alcohol.

I tried to drink moderately for years. The result was as predictable as the sun rising. I ended up drunk, blacked out and hung over.

[stepnw1f]

12. Not This Alcoholic

Everytime I picked up a drink, I didn't want to stop... and didn't. Not until I passed out was just too sick to drink more.

[sam sarrha]

13. "If" you are an "Alcoholic" you can't drink again again. if you can take

it or leave it you are not an alcoholic.. or you are in denial and you are only fooling yourself you can leave it..

addiction is generally described as..'a behavior that you will continue to perform even thou you know the next time you do it it can very well kill you.'

the people that can drink or not drink are not alcoholics.. an alcoholic is addicted to alcohol. that means that they are not in control of its use.

I have known people who were drunks, but not alcoholics.. they were in control of not using it.. I have 30 years of alcoholism to back up my stand. I COULD NOT STOP DRINKING. IT WAS NOT POSSABLE..

i managed to stop using by Meditation,an ounce of weed and with the support of my wife and friends i was able to break the cycle.

i have not used any drug in the last 5 years no have i wanted to..

dont delude yourself if you and your family has a problem of alcohol, it isn't worth the risk

Drinking is like Russian Roulette, except you keep pulling the trigger.

[sandnsea]

16. slight variation

I have always heard addiction described as a behavior that you continue to perform, despite the fact that it is interfering with or destroying aspects of your daily life. The next time I get in a car, I could very well die, but it's not an addiction.

[LearnedHand]

19. When I first stopped drinking 2 years and five months ago,

...all I could think about was whether I could ever drink socially, for pleasure, again. My sober buds kept telling me not to worry about whether I could drink again down the road. I just needed to make it past the next 24 hours sober. "You can always drink tomorrow," they'd say.

After stringing together more than 700 tomorrows without drinking, I finally realized that I NEVER want to pick up a drink again. It probably wouldn't kill me, I might even be able to drink one drink and walk away from it. But I would drink for EXACTLY the same reason I did before I stopped: to stop the emotional pain. THAT's the journey I don't want to start all over again.

I've got way the hell too much teeth-gritting time without my emotional crutch to start all over again.

[Mikimouse]

20. One day at a time, my friend...hugs to you...

and a big welcome from your local friendly recovering drunk.