A complicated situation.

[varkam]

I wanted to post here to see if you all would weigh in on something for me. I'm a sponsor, and some of the people I sponsor live in parts of the world where there are not meetings to get to - so we'll talk via Skype or e-mail. One of the people that I sponsor has been talking to someone else via e-mail who is also in recovery.

Here's the problem: the guy that I sponsor is concerned that this other person might be engaging in some pretty serious criminal activity (I'll call him Frank - I don't know what his name is or what he calls himself, but for the sake of discussion). For my money, I think that where people are at now is more important than where they have been. I know quite a few people who have committed pretty serious crimes in the past and did not get caught for them...but that was then.

The problem is that Frank doesn't seem to appreciate the gravity of the situation, the harm that he is possibly causing to others, and the risk that he is exposing himself to (in fact, I don't even know that because I don't know what sanctions the country in question has for this type of thing).

So the guy that I sponsor wrote to me looking for some idea as to what to do. I honestly I don't know. It's a complicated situation. On one hand, confidentiality and anonymity are essential to this program. If we start betraying that trust amongst ourselves, then what utility will addicts helping other addicts have?

On the other hand, we should not want to to shield ongoing criminal behavior. For example, if someone came into a meeting and said directly that they had molested their daughter repeatedly, and didn't show any signs of remorse or wanting to stop...that would likewise put me (and others) in a difficult situation.

So I guess I'm asking for any thoughts that you have on this situation.

Thanks :pals:

[dsc]

1. as a practical matter what can you do?

This would be double hearsay and useless in any court. It seems that the best that can be done is for your sponsee to bluntly speak to his sponsee. Breaking the law isn't really in our traditions as you well know. I hope for the best.

[NMDemDist2]

2. I always tell people in the program not to confess any major crimes to me

and that they should hire a lawyer or find a priest for their 5th step

I live a program of rigorous honesty and expect my friends/sponsees to strive for the same thing.

If the other guy isn't willing to come clean and take his lumps (9th step) or at least STOP doing the bad behaviors (6&7th steps) I'd tell him I wish him well, but don't talk to me until he's ready to do the work/change the behavior. If I think someone's safety is in question, I call the cops.

Enabling isn't just about drinking. Don't enable an addict, no matter what their addiction.

I know it sounds harsh, but I'm not here to cushion someone's bottom. I'm here to tell you what I did when I hit that bottom and how I got out.

There is no sponser/sponsee privilege like a priest or lawyer, if we know about a crime in progress and don't say anything we become an accessory to their crime. It's not fair for someone else to put us in a criminal postion and I don't allow it.

If it were my sponsee, I'd tell him to distance himself.

YMMV

[varkam]

3. Thanks for your thoughts. One of the aspects that makes this situation in particular complicated...

is the distance / different countries issue. With different countries come different jurisdictions and different branches of authority, as well as different requirements for reporting abuse.

I totally agree with you about enabling, as well as the fact that if you think someone's safety is in question then you need to act. The problem here, of course, is that's not even entirely clear. "Frank" hasn't come right out and said that the behavior is ongoing, or even what the behavior is - rather my sponsee has been reading between the lines a little bit.

Anyway, thanks. Just trying to think this thing trough, is all.

[NMDemDist2]

4. hmmm

'mind your own business' is another thing I live by

if 'Frank' isn't asking for help, your sponsee can't help him. if 'Frank' is trying to work a program and your baby can share his experience, strength and hope he should.

We share our ES&H, no theory, no arm chair pychology and no 'reading between the lines'

We tell folks what we did. If they can't (or won't) do what we did, there's nowhere else to go.

:shrug:

[SPKrazy]

5. It is difficult

Primary purpose is to carry the message to the addict who still suffers, personal recovery depends upon SAA unity.

SAA has no opinion on outside issues, hence the SAA name should never be brought into public controversy.

That said...

I'm in a profession that is mandated to report illegal behaviors towards minors.

Since I don't know the minors involved and don't want to, I have stayed on the side of the primary purpose is to carry the message.

One person many years ago came in and said he had raped someone, had no idea who it was, but he had also told his wife. Oddly my wife was in college in a class with a woman who talked about a good friend of hers who had been raped by someone.

My mind was in this mode, he either went to treatment (and he could easily afford it) or he was getting a dime dropped on him.

He went to treatment. Unfortunately he had little in the way of conscience. I never dropped a dime on him and wouldn't know any details as I chose not to know.

I think that while legally a person might not be protected for bringing it up in a meeting as courts have compelled testimony from 12 step members, that what is said 1:1 is between those people, and the belief or idea that is in each of their heads.

I feel that if SAA becomes a place where people are afraid to talk because of fear of retribution legally, then it will be a hard place to be. Like AA went through early on, the idea should be on encouraging people to "take their lumps" so to speak, because if they don't then unless they are sociopathic, they will likely be unable to stay sober.

(tap dancing all around it I know)

My memory is poor at what people say in meetings, and I do not recall a lot of things that I might recall given different circumstances.

However my memory is better when there is a person who is unable to be honest and forthcoming and face the consequences.

JMO

[CraftyGal]

6. Our Intergroup went through some of the very questions that you are bringing up.

What happened: there was and accusation from a member, where the member said that a 12 step caller had called Children Services about some alleged abuses on this member. It turned out that this was a false accusation, however it brought about an interesting debate because in Alberta there is a law, whereby if we even suspect child abuse we are to report. If a person works with children or in a position of authority, they are required under law to report it. I believe Intergroup left it for the individual to deal it in the way they see best. It became a Tradition 10 issue.

CraftyGal