Denial

[gaspee]

I'd like to hear some theories from the women in this group about male denial of cold hard facts about male on female violence. If the men can be civil, I wouldn't mind a few of their theories as well. As long as their theory isn't denial of denial.

Facts on violence toward women, from men, can be found at the US department of justice website. I'm sure everyone knows of a little website caled google.

Seems to me, in plain black and white, that there is no denial of violence against women perpetrated by men. But when it is pointed out, there is immediate outrage that such statistics be used to say, "hey, this is wrong! What can we do about it!"

So, why do guys jump all over threads where this is discussed?

Do they think if they acknowledge the truth, they are somehow complicit because they do nothing to stop it? Do they think because they've never been arrested, this issue isn't about them? WTF is the problem? Seriously, I want theories.

These same people, when confronted with institutional racism howl over the injustice of situations like in Jena, yet they refuse to even accept that male violence is something that women have to live with. So what gives?

[Katherine Brengle]

1. The social order depends on the status quo in order to survive --

and frankly, men have it good, they're comfortable in their privilege - why would they want to give it up?

That doesn't make them right, but it makes sense if you factor in for outright pathetic selfishness.

[ThomCat]

2. Yes. It is very EASY to accept violence against women.

It's very easy to play along and accept that women are things. It's very easy to ignore the bad stuff and take the good stuff because women pay the costs.
:(

It takes sustained effort to look for our own responsibility, and all the ways we benefit individually and collectively. And it takes more sustained effort, and a lot of resistance from other guys, to challenge it.

I think the resistance from other guys is a big factor limiting how many guys are willing to support feminism. Most of the guys I know who are feminists don't have strong networks of guy friends, so there is limited blow-back.

[ismnotwasm]

3. I don't know

Outside of an inability to confront violence within themselves. A reluctance toward self reflection. What I hear is "I'd never hit a woman" or "I'd kick the ass of anyone who would hit a woman" an attempt to separate from those that would. When it comes to violence against women, it's more of what you said--denial, or blame the victim-OrMenGetBeatToo than actually standing up and doing something about it. And as KB said. It's part of a system male's benefit from.

Even the term intimate partner violence brings out the deniers. Can't make them happy, can't make them want to stand up and say enough.

There was some TV show I caught the end of the title was "(forgot the name)has your back" The guy sets up situations that people deal with in real life and tapes them. This particular show had a date rape in the segment I caught. (Latch key kids were in the second)He started his show with interviews with real date rape victims.

The show guy went to two bars, picked more or less at random, but bars that attract young people. One in New York and one in New Jersey. He used a very attractive female actor. When the actor stepped out of hearing, he told young men he befriended that he was going to drug the woman and have sex with her. He was very clear. In both cases, not one man stood up and told him he was wrong, told him They'd kick his ass, none of it. They seemed to think it was very funny. One tipsy young man said "Dude, you roofied her? I've always wanted to do that."
In another scenario, he told a man at the bar he was "finished" and the woman on the beach under some sort of pier, sleeping it off. This man, who did nothing to stop the rape, seemed concerned, and wanted to see "if she was ok" The last shot showed him staggering down the beach looking for this (non-existent)passed out woman. The guy who does the show said he "hoped" the guy WAS going down to see if she was alright--not so subtly hinting the guy was not. He was also quick to say his show was not "a scientific study" closed the segment with how women can "protect" themselves from being drugged and raped.

The show grossed me out, but didn't surprise me.

[defendandprotect]

4. An important question -- !!! In fact, male violence in our society is totally ignored--!!!

One part of this -- and I don't know the total answer -- is that MEN stick together to defend one another, while women don't naturally do that.

If men are being attacked -- no matter how truthful the situation may be -- men will support the guy.
They "understand" that an attack on one of them is an attack on all of them.

And, I think that there is something of that thinking in response to domestic violence --

But, overall, our society fails to acknowledge the reality of male violence --