If it's this easy to terrify liberal men with talk of periods

[Book Lover]

why aren't we in the army, waving our pads and tampons at the enemy?!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2335135

[noamnety]

1. I thought I threatened to do that once.

Back when that crazy legislator guy (in Maryland? Virginia?) was trying to define all eggs that don't implant as human life and wanting to do death certificates for them as miscarriages, I thought I wrote a letter to him about sending him all my used tampons for inspection, because really I wouldn't know if there was an egg there or not ... maybe he could have a crime lab check them out for me to be safe.

But now that I'm looking through my old letter file, I don't see it. :(

I do have an old letter to Ashcroft about my breasts, though. Me and Ashcroft, we were like penpals back in the day, except for the part where he never wrote back.


Jul 25 '04

Dear Mr. Ashcroft,

Last week I received my mammogram results from my doctor, and I thought of you. I’ve heard about suspected terrorists Ms. McGarry and Colleen Carboy, who attempted to bring a suspicious substance that they referred to as “breast milk” on board an airplane. I am thankful that security screeners were on their toes in both cases, and made the women sample the liquid before boarding, to assure our safety.

My mammogram came back negative, but it made me stop and think. If a woman can smuggle weapons of mass destruction in her breast milk after it’s been expressed, what’s to keep her from smuggling them in her milk while it’s still in her breast? I know that I would feel more secure if your office could screen all mammogram records, and check for suspicious lumps. Perhaps women who have these lumps could be added to your no-fly lists. And women who don’t have a mammogram on file with your office could be pulled aside for a breast-exam by one of your screeners. You will probably get a few liberals protesting this, but be assured they are out of touch with mainstream America. The majority of women welcome the government into our private lives, if that’s the cost of freedom.

Proud to serve as your eyes and ears (and breasts!).

[Katherine Brengle]

2. That guy

_______ is a whackadoo.

"Women aren't unclean but their menstrual fluid is."

[gollygee]

3. We're so filthy and disgusting

how does the world tolerate our existence? :eyes:

*sigh*

I get really angry reading that kind of talk. I mean really and truly angry.

I wonder if these idiots are throwing away their sheets after any male emissions due to how DISGUSTING bodily fluids are? Somehow I doubt it.

[Branjor]

4. I notice he said everything was "gross"

except semen.

But what is "spooge"? Is that semen?

[gollygee]

5. I think so

but note that he is opposed to any contact with a bodily fluid unless it's his wife's contact with his "spooge". He just personally doesn't like to touch "spooge". Fine if she does. Same for the babies' dipes. I bet he's a great help with the kids. :eyes:

[noamnety]

14. The more I thought about that

the more absurd it got.

Nobody was asking HIM to touch anything. Not his own spooge, not his wife's pads. He's comparing his wife touching his fluids to her touching her own fluids, and one he finds sexually arousing, presumably (I mean, he has kids), and the other he is repulsed beyond belief by. So he's saying it's gross for his wife to touch her fluids, but not his. That's just weird, you'd think touching someone else's would be worse - I mean that's where you have a chance to be contaminated with someone else's germs.

On top of that, I don't know if he gets that when we use pads, the blood is already touching us, just not our fingers.

But it's worse than that, cause nobody was even telling him to have his wife switch to reusable pads. It was just an idea for people who were interested, and nobody's forcing it on anyone.

So he's actually just grossed out at the thought that somewhere in the world some other woman who he doesn't even know might be using a reusable pad. That leaves me scratching my head ... because as someone pointed out, that's all women before WWI, and a good number of the women in the world now. He knows that, right? So what is the problem? That there are 1,000,000,300 women using reusable products vs. 1,000,000,000 using reusable products? Is it that us "civilized" women aren't supposed to use these things, just primitive women?

Anyway, here is a story from Uganda - where cheap disposable pads are making it possible for some girls to finish school:

The price of imported sanitary pads – around US$1.50 for a pack of ten – puts them beyond the reach of Uganda’s poorest families. Accordingly, many disadvantaged girls skip school during their periods, creating a vicious cycle in which the poorest fall furthest behind in their education. Noticing this trend in Kampala, Dr Musaazi Moses set himself the goal of producing sanitary pads that could be sold for no more than US$0.27 per pack. He was able to keep costs down by using locally sourced materials – papyrus and paper – and manufacturing the pads on a cottage industry basis. The current rate of production stands at around 1,500 pads per day – and Dr Moses expects this to increase over time. Since its foundation in 2004, MakaPads have benefited hundreds of girls in Kampala and beyond.

and here are some comments from their discussion board:

Just wanted to add some information about the sanitary pads developed in Uganda. I live and work here and recently visited a school where Dr. Musaazi had provided MakaPads to the school. For the first time, the girls were having discussions about menstruation and the girls outnumbered the boys in enrollment. I didn't realize that many girls drop out of school because they simply cannot afford pads and the banana leaves that they use are too unreliable to be out in public. Menstruation in many countries is the end of education and the beginning of too early motherhood. I have visited the place where the pads are made. It's an amazing story and a wonderful support to young woman in Uganda.

... A solution at last for the thousands of young girls in Uganda that have always looked at menstruation as a curse and ironically a 'man' finds us the solution! I belong to a professional women's network 'PULSE' in Uganda and we hold public health talks in disadvantaged schools, and the issue of menstruation still arose in all our talks with the young pupils. Besides providing a solution to the 'problem' this initiative adds another dimension that has caught my attention - providing employment opprotunities and income to rural households through this intervention! Bravo Dr Musaazi, and please continue to innovate as we need Ugandans like yourself to pull out of the poverty trap!

... Hi, I've been a volunteer working along side Jo and Dr. Musaazi this year in Uganda. I've seen and heard the differences in the lives of many girls and women who are introduced to the MakaPads. I personally have used the MakaPads and have been wildly impressed with their absorption, along with knowing that they are made of environmentally sustainable papyrus and recycled post-consumer paper waste. Once used, they can be incinerated to harmless ash that can be used in gardens as a natural harmless pesticide! Empowering the women of Africa with education, mobility and proper hygiene is essential.

They are in an area where soap and clean water isn't always available, so the fabric pads were a poor choice for them. But it raises a few points. One is that even those who are stuck on disposable products could make an effort to push for more environmentally friendly materials, and they don't need to be so freaking expensive or controlled solely by large corporations. The other, more importantly, is that it brings home the idea of how privileged we are. We have women who are appalled at the idea that they might come in contact with their own blood, they are way too good for that, while meanwhile girls in other countries are dropping out of school and being condemned to a life of poverty because of their periods ... they should be so lucky to have to deal with the "disgusting horror" of using reusable pads that are tossed into a washing machine and pop out magically clean at no cost to us, with virtually no effort.

[Book Lover]

16. Thank you for this information

I am particularly impressed by your final paragraph, discussing the range of privilege in this world...

[noamnety]

18. I forgot to post the link

http://www.theworldchallenge.co.uk/2007_finalists.php

Some interesting reading in all the finalist write-ups.

[bliss_eternal]

28. Wow.

I had NO idea. Thank you for this (and the link below). :thumbsup: Great information.

[noamnety]

6. I'm sure if they play sports

they throw out their shirts afterwards. They get all sweaty, you know. Ewwwww at reusing clothes that get sweaty! Gross!

[Book Lover]

7. I reread the thread this morning

and I am way more saddened and appalled by the women who call their monthly flow disgusting. OK, guys don't have to deal, and perhaps they didn't pay as much attention in sex ed as one would hope, but the women who have periods every month... throwing away underwear if they get blood on them? Flow is as disgusting as feces? Blood and connective tissue, sisters! My goodness, what do they do if they have an actual problem, like a yeast infection? Faint away?

[gollygee]

8. How can they help but internalize it

if they at some point date someone like the guys in that thread who thought it was so disgusting? Let's say you're 18 and not confident, and you date a guy who thinks menstruation is that icky. What happens to your opinion? Or what if your dad has issues and talks about it like that?

:(

[bliss_eternal]

11. ...or their mothers, aunts, grandmothers.

:shrug:

Not to bash or blame women, because ultimately the shame and disgust around menstruation seems rooted in male institutions that say your period is _________(fill in the blank--gross, problematic, painful, etc." (ie. Religion, medicine, pharmaceuticals, advertising, etc.) I think it's worthy of discussing women with ideas like this, that simply aren't aware that they've been brainwashed.

I'm fascinated by how menstruation is treated within families. I'm frequently stunned at how different some families handle the issue and what they consequently teach their daughters in the process.

I had friends w/relatives that didn't discuss it AT ALL. It was this big secret and when you did start to menstruate, no one told you what was happening. They just shoved a box of Kotex in your general direction and that was that. :crazy: Some of the women grew up, found feminism and realized how insane it all was and made an effort to better inform other girls and young women in their family BEFORE they reached that point in life. But sadly, this isn't always the case, and some seem to just perpetuate their negativity as opposed to turning to feminism.

If young women don't have anyone in their world talking to them about it and dealing with it in a matter of fact manner, how will all things menstruation be regarded? It seems easy to assume the worst if no one has told you otherwise.

[noamnety]

31. I was reading Feral Scholar today

And Stan has a new post up that is about Cynthia McKinney and the Green Party, but I swear parts of it read like he was following these threads and responding directly to them. He's talking about ideology here:

We aren’t born with it. We learn it. And it doesn’t all come at once, it begins with simple ideas upon which the culture builds. Moreover, those simple ideas are often passed on to us — as part of our expected nurturing — when we are very, very young — by the people whose hands we seek for love, safety, food, hygiene, play, and companionship. ...

Earlier, I said ideology serves a control function. It’s not control in the sense of someone giving a direct order. It’s the kind of control a dog experiences with one of those underground electric containment fences. The dog eventually takes the boundaries for granted and accepts her limitations as an irreducible fact… therefore beyond challenge.

With society divided between the very powerful and the variously more powerless, there are those who control the levers of our survival, those who are keepers of “special” knowledge, those who design the production of our societies, and their power translates into the power to design the production and distribution of culture, too.

The ideas and ideologies that support the status quo of power become the “invisible” dog fence in our heads… and hearts.

...The Invisible Fence keeps most people from even considering the majority of things that desperately need to be done right now to prevent all manner of horrors for us, others, the people of the future, and basically the whole planet. The reasons we need to do these things — re-tool the entire society to thrive more locally and sustainably — is outside the Fence, and might as well be a parallel universe for the vast majority of people. Among all the people who most need to understand this are Americans, because we live in the geographically defined polity that simultaneously has the most rapidly destructive practices and the geopolitical power to theoretically make the bad things stop.

http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/11/25/black-green/

[Katherine Brengle]

9. It's really sad...

The worst thing is, taking control back from the corporate "feminine hygiene" industry made it a lot easier for me to deal with, and I know a lot of others feel the same, but they're too brainwashed to even try, or consider.

[bliss_eternal]

12. I applaud the efforts...

...some of you made there. But it seems some are so entrenched in such beliefs there's no way to reach them. I was surprised to see a few that have posted progressively in regard to other women's issues join the chorus of "eeeuwww--yucky!" Really surprised. :(

It would be interesting to get a better sense of "where" and "how" the women expressing such ideas developed their views. If they learned it based on the silence and secrecy around their cycle (in their family)? Was it socially derived (religion, friends, lovers, etc.)? Or was it learned over time derived from bits of all of the above?

[Gormy Cuss]

21. Menstrual flow is icky. Not disgusting, but sometimes messy and annoying.

That said, I have no issue touching it, seeing it, or having blood on panties. It's a natural bodily function. I feel sorry for those who can't deal with it on that level, but there are people who can't accept the fact that noxious odors emanate from their rectums either.

As for guys, it was always one of my relationship tests. A man who couldn't deal with the sight of menstrual blood wasn't a keeper.

[Chovexani]

10. LOL

That thread is full of so much fail.

The saddest part is the women who have bought into that mess.

Hell I use my menstrual blood in magick. That's some powerful stuff.

[femrap]

13. Aren't muslim men totally flipped out if

menstrual blood touches them? Don't they view it as 'torture?' Hey, Book Lover, I think you are onto something. Maybe we can bring the Taliban and Al Queda to their collective knees!

How did men become so hateful of women...does it all emanate from the 3 major organized religions?

[Book Lover]

15. Oh, I don't think it's restricted to any particular religion

or gender, if you've read the thread. Maybe the world is divided into two types of people: the ones who can't deal with the fact that they live inside a water-based body system, and us.

[femrap]

22. I did read the thread and enjoyed it....

I just seem to remember that the Islam religion had something to say about women and their periods. I'm no theologian so I don't know for sure.

[bliss_eternal]

24. Same here...

...it's a great thread in the information provided. It's also cool to see so many people interested in the divacup. I'd say there were more pro than con.

I had religious studies years ago, and don't recall which had the issue w/women's periods, but you may be right in saying it's Islam. I remember that women weren't "allowed" to worship in Temple if they were menstruating, in the religion that had the issue. I also remember that it pissed me off to learn that at 18.

[Book Lover]

29. Did a little searching

It seems that in Islam women are only prohibited from intercourse while having their periods. They can perform all other religious functions. http://www.submission.org/women/hygiene.html

But I also learned this regarding Hinduism:
Hindu religion defines the terrain of sensuality for women further. During menstruation, a Hindu woman is considered "polluting", "dirty" or "impure" and the Manusmriti prescribes a ritual bath after menstruation ceases. Menstruating women do not attend temple services and a ritual bath is taken when bleeding ceases. Since menstruation is seen as "dirty", Hindu women do not even light the lamp in the shrines of their homes. The lighting of the lamp is an important part of ritual life. These religious restrictions cause women to feel "impure". The religious and cultural belief that menstruation is contaminating has serious implications for the way women view themselves and their bodies. In my study, over half the Hindu women described themselves as being "contaminated" and "dirty" during menstruation and consequently did not want to be part of certain religious and cultural events. They rarely questioned the cultural belief of impurity during menstruation. http://web.uct.ac.za/org/agi/pubs/newsletters/vol7/sherne.htm

and this regarding Japanese buddhism
More importantly, according the Menstruation Sutra (Ketsubon kyo), which was widely read in Japan from the time of Muju until the end of the nineteenth century <2>, every time a woman bled, she polluted the ground and the waters that were used to make offerings to the Buddhas and severely offended them. As a result she was constantly accruing negative karma, the result of which was rebirth in the 'Bloodpond Hell'. http://www.westernbuddhistreview.com/vol4/mirror_for_women.html
though I don't know if that carries through to other iterations of buddhism as well.

I am sure more research would find stuff to contradict the stuff I found here; if there's one thing you can count on in religion, it's that nobody agrees.

[femrap]

30. Organized religions cause more

problems than they are worth. War, War, and more wars...all for God.

And nowadays it's the women and children who are murdered en masse instead of the warriors. I sure hope there is reincarnation...I have a reservation for the Unisex Planet in our neighboring galaxy! lol.

[bliss_eternal]

32. Whoa--

The Hindu beliefs around menstruation are harsh. :scared:

Interesting to read about Japanese Buddhism, as well.
Japanese women seem to suffer a variety of culturally imposed abuses.

[bliss_eternal]

17. Biological infectious waste...?

When did the product of menses become the equivalent of biological infectious waste?

Geezus, why hasn't the industry tapped into this and sold special "hazardous waste gloves" to be worn when placing and removing tampons or to when handling sanitary napkins?

:eyes:
What a depressing fucking comment.

[noamnety]

20. New product line

I don't normally design clothing, but I was thinking there might be a market for this on DU:

[bliss_eternal]

26. LOL!

:rofl:

After reading that term, I had images of the acid expelled by the creature in the Alien films.

[BlueIris]

19. Sigh. The fear of women and women's bodies is never so odious as it is on DU.

[gollygee]

23. The good news

I've had bunches of people send me private messages asking for more information about the Divacup! I think a lot of people are going to make the switch based on that thread.

[noamnety]

25. I had a couple of those messages, myself

And I've been thinking of making the pads - almost did today, and then realized, wait, I'm procrastinating on other commitments, best deal with those first. Pads for me are just a backup system - the security blanket just in case, so they generally get nothing on them at all, and go into the trash. That's especially ignorant and wasteful on my part. I almost bought them when I bought The Keeper, but I was too cheap to pay the going price when I knew I had everything at home that I needed to make them for free.

[bliss_eternal]

27. That's great news...!

I'm glad I wasn't the only one seeking more information about the divacup. :hi:

The more ads I see about "feminine hygiene" the more disturbed I am about helping to make that industry richer. The environmental aspect tips the decision scale that much more for me. It's something I've thought and wondered a great deal about--and bothered me every month when I used those items. Clearly the menstrual product industry isn't going "green" anytime in the near future.

[noamnety]

33. Not sure how I ended up here today

but I know it belongs in this thread:



http://www.tamponcrafts.com/gun.html