I think I might be too picky on this one...

[gaspee]

And I am NOT calling anyone out before the Mod-ly types try to lock this thread. It's happening everywhere, not just on DU.

It really bugs me - and I mean really - when all of the male candidates are referred to by their last name and Senator Clinton is called Hillary. It happens all over the MSM, on DU and almost any other website.

I can't be the only one it bothers.

Keith Olbermann, not exactly a bastion of feminism, was reading off his lines the other night (one night last week) and stopped in the middle of his lines to ask his writers why Senator Clinton was "Hillary" when the others were Obama, Edwards, Kucinich, Huckabee, etc.

This really bugs me and to me, at least, speaks to the fundamental disrespect shown to women in positions of power. it's like when Obama or McCain or Edwards or Huckabee says something like - "I'm going to win" - it's called confidence, but if Clinton says something along those lines, she's called on entitlement thinking.

I wish I could support Senator Clinton, but we're too far apart on too many issues. I'm practically a socialist these days anyway.

None of the candidates do it for me, really, but that's life as an atheist, radical feminist, lesbian-leaning bisexual woman in 2008 America.

[gollygee]

1. I complained, and I even was very gentle with my complaint

and I still got blasted for being too sensitive.

There are some thick-skulled people here at DU.

[ThomCat]

2. That's why I almost always refer to her as HRC.

Refer to the male democratic candidates as Barack and John, and people might notice the disconnect.

I give some people credit for referring to her by her last name. But then they get snarked for not specificying if they're talking about Bill or Hillary. Which leads right back to referring to her by her first name.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

10. I usually go by Sen. Clinton. nt

[Branjor]

3. Yeah...

***it's like when Obama or McCain or Edwards or Huckabee says something like - "I'm going to win" - it's called confidence, but if Clinton says something along those lines, she's called on entitlement thinking.***

It's because Obama, McCain, Edwards and Huckabee are agreed to be entitled by the ones doing the calling but Clinton isn't.

[Gormy Cuss]

4. "Oh, it's because we'd think people were talking about Bill otherwise."

That's the defense I hear most frequently. Of course, only someone utterly out of touch would think the "Clinton '08" campaign was a reference to Bill.

At first I thought it was just because of her gender but now I'm inclined to think that it's about her gender and her role as a political wife. The latter can even be used as a positive by her campaign since Clinton was such a popular president.


I refer to her as Clinton or Sen. Clinton, but not Hillary.

[spooky3]

5. The other excuse is "her own website refers to her as 'Hillary'!"

Well, several replies to that:

1) is she trying to offset the sexist stereotyping of powerful women as cold and unfriendly? That shouldn't give media a pass to address her in a way they would not use with men.
2) isn't it damned if you do, and damned if you don't for her? If she's "Clinton", she's cold and unfriendly, but if she's "Hillary" she does not get the same status as male candidates, even those that are less viable. Sociologists have long pointed out how the higher status people are addressed by title, but they are free to address lower status people by first names.
3) why does it matter what a website calls the candidate with respect to first vs. last names? Wouldn't it be better to use a consistent way of referring to all candidates? Use the website to correct mispronunciations, etc.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

9. Guiliani calls himself Rudy all over his campaign materials.

Yet I don't hear him being referred to by his first name only when it's not called for.

[spooky3]

11. good point

[ismnotwasm]

6. The other potential problem with that

Is kind of a nightmare landscape where our first woman president is referred to as "President Hillary"

Gods.

[ismnotwasm]

7. Oh shit.

I see now that Senator Clinton shed tears in public. There are umpteen threads already. (And like you gaspee, I'm not interested in calling anyone out, or debating Senator Clinton's politics.)


Now, here's the questions. Can anyone think of a few male politicians who teared up(I know there have been a few) and exactly how much publicity THEY got?

[gaspee]

8. My ignore list

Now has over 70 people on it. I haven't figured out why, just yet, most of them seem to be Obama supporters.

The blatant sexism is no surprise. But just try to point it out to these people and see what happens.

I might have to avoid DU until primary season is over. This place is seriously toxic these days.

[femrap]

14. I have never added so many people to my

Ignore list as I have in the past few days.

There's a thread out there discussing how the Media has selected our candidates...I think it goes beyond that. I think the Media is merely the Puppet of The Corporates/Mega-wealthy/Rothschild-types. The are utilizing that wonderful tactic of 'divide and conquer' and pitting a white male (who ironically has the most left-leaning message), a white woman, and a black man against each other. And these Rothschild-types are enjoying the circus.

Now that HRC has 'cried' (I only saw maybe some tear-filled eyes, if that), they can have more folly. Just wait for them to go after Obama. My aunt is one of those crazy evangelicals so I know what they have been feeding her in the way of message about him. I don't believe the American People are tolerant and open-minded enough to accept a black man...I 'hope' I am wrong. (Now the word 'hope' bugs me...it's rather wishy-washy. Guess I'll change to 'believe.')

gaspee...you're right. I think I will take a vacation from here as well. I just get angry and frustrated at the sexist stupidity. It's something out of my control and I need to focus on those few things that I can somewhat control.

I'll be glad to see Feb. 5 come and go.

[gaspee]

15. you know

If someone told me a year ago that my irrelevant vote would be for the white southern dude in the race, I would have laughed in their face.

And the only reason my vote is for him is that he *is* the most left leaning. If I vote in the general, again because RI is completely irrelevant, I'll vote dem because every dem is better than ever repub. I'm happier with any of them than I am with any R -- and I hate that I have to disclaim everything I post these days.

Ahem, like I said, I don't want to turn this into the candidate wars, but the anti-woman vitriol seems to be coming, in large part, from Obama supporters. Not *all* obama supporters (lets use our logic and venn diagrams before we attack, please.) I didn't say that, but most of the people I'm putting on ignore for sexist and or gay bashing reasons seem to have Obama sig lines. And low post counts. But I am ignoring someone in this thread, so I guess that's not always the case. I'm also ignoring anyone who says the whole ex-gay fiasco doesn't matter. Because hello, if you're going for the bigot vote on my back, it matters to me. Let me say that again. It matters to me. The dismissiveness of the very real concerns of LGBT members of this forum is also very disconcerting. We've been made the boogieman in the last 3 elections and I will not stand for it from a dem. Any of them. To not support marriage equality is one thing, but to deliberately court the religious anti-gay bigot vote automatically disqualifies a candidate, for me.

Of course I live in a state where no candidates campaign and is about the bluest in the country, so I'm pretty irrelevant to this election.

[MuseRider]

17. I have never used my ignore list until now.

Usually I would put one person who was causing me to lose it on then take them off the next day. I have about 12 on there now, just added another and mine are mostly Obama supporters because of the McClurkin thing. How anyone could defend that is beyond me. I too have someone on ignore that I can't see in this thread, don't know who. It kills me but....

[bliss_eternal]

20. This may sound strange...

...but I've found some of the Obama supporters posts to be blatantly racist. (disclaimer--not all of course...lol). But there's a few in particular that seem to be supporting him because of his ethnicity more than anything he actually stands for, and that really disturbs me.

The posts I've seen where they've called out people of color are so beyond offensive.
I was really shocked that few seemed to truly "get" the implications of what was being said. Attempts to shame people of color for NOT supporting him also made me do double takes.

The sense of "tokenism" I read in their "support threads" really made me cringe, and wonder for a second if I'd wandered into some weird alternative universe.

[bliss_eternal]

19. Honestly...

...I haven't been here much in the last few months. When I do peek in, it's here (feminism) and pro-choice.

[bliss_eternal]

18. My list also grew...

...while reading a few "Obama support threads." Prior to primary season, I found the tone of many threads less "support Obama" and more "let's make offensive, insulting, sexist, bigoted accusations about anyone that doesn't support Obama." Some really sickening stuff that I'd rather not remember.

People with such skewed, hypocritical ideas deserve to be ignored, as far as I'm concerned.

[gaspee]

22. Stay out tonight then

Because it's ugly out there. Graceless winners and sore losers.

What can you do? When I come to DU these days, I tend to check if there's anything new here or in the GLBT forum.

I used to give people second or third chances before I hit ignore - now, it's immediate.

Some threads, I open up and it's all

ignore
ignore
ignore
ignore

It looks like some kind of code or something *VBG*

[bliss_eternal]

23. You are braver than I...

...to have ventured into the cesspool. lol.

I haven't been in glbt since the obama mess. I get angry when I see people from the main forums following glbt members there to get a few more digs in (saw people do it during the last controversy too). So rude and invasive.

[Gormy Cuss]

12. Edmund Muskie, and it cost him dearly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Muskie

I remember this because he was senator from my state when I was a kid.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

16. Bill Clinton cried like a sieve through his entire presidency.

Don't see these "progressive" doodz on DU bringing that up.

Besides, I've watched the footage several times now and I don't see what the big deal is. She got a little choked up, composed herself, and moved on. That impresses the shit out of me, because when I start crying there's no stopping the floodgate.

[BlueIris]

21. Yeah, I just mentioned that to some misogynist idiot who brought up the non-crying.

President Clinton cried at the drop of a hat. Especially if NBC was watching.

[BlueIris]

13. I tend to use that because it's the name she's chosen to market her image with.

I actually think that was a mistake on her part (made it easier for people who dismiss her simply for misogynist reasons to deem her irrelevant).