"fast seduction" BS is inherently misogynistic/Many people don't even seem to recognize misogyny

[redqueen]

I was talking about those sites with someone today, and I couldn't help thinking of how some people on this site defended that disgusting garbage as harmless or even good.

I wasn't going to complain about it here... but then I visited the Lounge and saw a thread about an incident wherein a man sent sexually explicit pictures of his ex to her relatives as a christmas card. And someone there implied that if she knew, then it was okay... someone else flat-out said how hilarious it was. Another surreptitiously asked for pics.

*sigh*

Sorry... just had to vent. Stuff like this makes me want to just give up hope.


And another thing... cheerleaders. Does anyone else find them embarrassing? Not actual cheerleaders... just the oversexualized hot-dance-moves-count-as-cheers-now,-no-really! excuses for 'cheerleaders' that are used to help market pro sports.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it sad... along with the ridiculous outfits that beach volleball players wear (notice the male volleyball players not wearing speedos)... along with pretty much any effort to objectify women's bodies in order to sell.


Sorry for ranting.

[seabeyond]

1. what are yout alking about "fest seduction". i feel like i a missing something in your post.

ya, a total wrong and only du can give it a thumbs up. (picture to x in laws)

[redqueen]

2. There's a subculture of men who use a technique...

some call themselves 'pickup artists'.

It disgusts me... it's straight-up manipulation, but when the topic has come up on DU... yep, defenders.

http://www.fastseduction.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_community

[seabeyond]

3. ha, a bunch of desperately pathetic men that cant get any.

who need to look within self. a bought pick up line isnt going to get them what they want.

just make them look foolish. kinda like the comb over, or polyester shirt open to navel with gold chains.

[redqueen]

4. That's the thing though... they're not using lines...

they're using psychology. They target "vulnerable" women.

It's truly abhorrent... but that's the society we live in today.

[seabeyond]

5. eeew. so like predators. feeding. eeeew. eeeew, again. nt

[redqueen]

6. Yep... predators.

Spot on.

[get the red out]

7. That's all disgusting

To be honest, some of the men on DU are far worse misogynists than some Republicans I know. I believe they think that liberal really means having to have no regard for others, do what you want, and if you give lip service to a woman's right to choose once in a while then that means you are pro-woman so you can do what you want to women. Some don't even bother to be pro-choice!!!!

I could vent all day, cheerleaders bother me as well, and I have also wondered why beach volleyball players wear nothing while university volleyball teams dress like athletes.

[redqueen]

8. I don't think ideology plays a part in it.

I think some men just enjoy having the upper hand (and all the primitive perks that go along with it), and they seem to try very hard not to consciously address the shit they're participating in / endorsing. Hence the defensiveness/hostility/whatever.

As for having female athletes dress like that, it's all marketing. I love that cheerleaders are rare across the pond. Makes supporting real football all the more pleasant. :)

[seabeyond]

10. all in the self esteem. and is telling. maybe why these men have tough times getting women, have

to resort to upper hand attitude is their lack of self esteem that put them there in the first place.

i have always been particular about hangin with people who feel good about themselves. in that, you dont have these issues.

[ismnotwasm]

9. Generally the same ones who call prostitution empowering

What stands out to me is the idea that women need to be hunted, pursued like animals. That women need some idiot's assistance to make up their mind to be sexually active. What men are, who learn so called 'seduction techniques' are manipulates, liars, and total creeps.


There is an episode of "The X-files" that comes to mind and is kind of an analogy; A man with some sort of genetic abnormality finds larger women on-line and kills them by excreting a substance that removes their fat. Which he then eats. The actor playing the part of the killer is does a very good job showing these 'seduction techniques', while being a monster preying on vulnerable women. Scully, who is one of my favorite female characters, tells him tells him off at the end, addressing the mental damage he did. Of course the monster would have denied that he hated women, "he gave them want they wanted, they gave him what he needed"


My guess is the majority of these men are lousy lays as well, although they learn 'forceful' sexual techniques that a women who hasn't learned to express her own needs, or even what they are, might mistake for good sex. These guys probably learn about foreplay from the foreshortened versions on porn.

Sending sexual pictures like the ones you described is a mean-ass thing to do, period. It's not funny, it's plain shitty. Making jokes about it is shitty. Wanting to see those pictures for entertainment is shitty. Sometimes I think people who are 'followers' don't always recognize that certain behavior isn't really what they want to participate in, they just follow. Weak willed or something.

The funny thing about cheerleaders is that in college, they're more like athletes, at least from what I observed. I used to work security at different games at a University. Those cheerleader, male and female, worked their assess off, they were incredible. So you move on to professional football, and rather than athletes, you get female eye candy and calenders. You bet it's just another thing for a franchise to sell. Women's bodies sell just about everything.

[redqueen]

11. "manipulates, liars, and total creeps"... agreed.

Yet there are people like this woman (http://tinyurl.com/ylmf36g) who seems to be saying that manipulation is impossible, because women have already made up their minds immediately... which would seem to lend credibility to crap like that 'fast seduction' nonsense. (She must have wanted it, women decide immediately!)

As for those who make jokes about what the guy did... perhaps the followers are weak willed, perhaps... but more importantly IMO they are thoughtless.

And I agree about cheerleaders. The ones in college are still actual cheerleaders. It's the ones in pro-sports who are simply T&A put on display in order to help sell the game. There's a restaurant around here called Twin Peaks. My daughter saw the sign and for whatever reason asked me to look it up... it's a Hooters knock off... only it's T&A selling burgers and fries instead of chicken wings. Loved explaining that one.

[BlueIris]

12. Oh, lord. I'm so frightened to have read a reference to the X-Files ep, "2 Shy," in here.

And yes, Timothy Cartwright rocked the part of the killer in that one. "2 Shy" has always stuck out in my mind as the episode in which Scully finally has a bigger gun (instead of the tiny .22 she carried around for two seasons). When she had to draw it for her showdown with Evil Fat Sucker Dude at the end, I was like, "Thank god. It's about time you had a better weapon."

[ismnotwasm]

13. I'm actually watching all of it

I never had time to watch it regulary back when it was on, but I always loved the premise. I'm just starting season five.


You're right, Scully's character had to evolve. From what I've read, Gillian Anderson wasn't their first pick--not 'sexy' enough. I often wonder how much she had to do with the developing complexity and strength of her character. None of the new CSI type shows come even close.

She does get rescued --tiresomely-- over and over by Mulder, but she saves his ass too. 2Shy is a predatory character of course, and how he slimes his way in to those women's lives I thought fairly realistic.


(I think they could do an entire new X files based on the Bush administration)

[bliss_eternal]

14. not sure if you're aware of this, redqueen....

...but i recently learned that two of the men discussed in this op ed article (posted in august):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=341x14501

...were part of the seduction community. :scared::puke::( it makes perfect sense, but blew my mind just the same, that creeps like this were enabled by other men who've created a women hating community on-line.

sorry i'm so late to post about this. just an fyi. :hi:

[wildflower]

15. I was just trying to remember the name of that guy

In response to a thread in which people are discussing why "nice guys" can't attract women. They often seem to be angry that women have rejected them and perceive themselves as "nice."

[bliss_eternal]

16. "nice guys"

I've actually been privy to some of the crap from the Super Special, Suck-Ass Loser Club (as I like to call them--seduction my ass). I also like the "Serial Killer Training Ground." I find it truly frightening that these dudes think they are so nice, and are so misunderstood. :crazy: Talk about delusions of grandeur. :eyes:

Clearly congregating on a forum with other anti-social, misogynistic losers, spewing porn fueled fantasies, while obsessing over the dream of making some woman his personal (and sadly I quote) "cum dumpster," only to can kick her to the curb, and revel in the triumph on their Super Special, Suck-Ass Loser board, is inherently "nice." :eyes:

Um...yeah, asshole--meet mirror....and buy a fuckin' clue. :eyes: