Another annoying thread. Is it just me?

[redqueen]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x3488348

I hate that women's looks are EVERYTHING to these people... one even goes so far as to say that since cooking is sensual, it's understandable that no one wants to watch a show hosted by a 'slovenly' cook.

:grr:

[Warpy]

1. Here ya go

and yes, I really do feel that way:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3488348&mesg_id=3489170

[redqueen]

2. Kinda makes sense...

it just irks me that male cooks aren't expected to look like models... so why the hell are female cooks treated that way?

Ugh.

[Finder]

3. Most good cooks I know...

are slim. Not model types but not Dom Delouise(sp?) types for sure. Cooking(real)in itself is intense exercise. Julia Child is my ultimate role model as far as cooking--Jeff Smith was a fav too. Martha Stewart impresses me as well although I have only seen her cook a few times.

I think the term "slovenly" was meant in the slobby sense.

[redqueen]

7. Slobby? Which TV cooks are slobby?

I'm curious to know...

[geniph]

4. Well, since the only cooking show I ever watch is Jamie Oliver's

...and I don't cook...well, I'll give you three guesses why I'm watching his show. ;-)

[redqueen]

8. That's great...

however, he's not exactly what most women consider eye candy, is he?

If you were watching a cooking show with a model-looking guy as the host, it would be a better analogy.

[geniph]

29. He isn't?

Good heavens, I must have no idea of what constitutes a hottie to most women. He's a hottie in my book! (My husband thinks he is, too.)

[FizzFuzz]

35. its also not JUST how the person looks, but how they're presented

Pics of several of the women looking like they're ready to give head (the lollipop one? ARG!!) as compared to pics of men, looking dominant, king of their domain...I don't believe I've seen any pics of men, whether they are hosts of cooking shows, or any other capacity, looking like they're ready for a little muff diving.

[Beaverhausen]

5. That's the kind of thing that keeps me out of the Lounge

It's a haven for the "boys club" and the women that love them.

[Lars39]

6. There's definitely some "personalities" that I won't ever respond to now.

One in particular can slice and dice anyone he pleases,
but the few times I've spoken out, one of the more "respected" posters
always comes out of retirement to clean my clock. And yes, the defender is female!

Folks complain about how vicious GD or GDP is, but the worst I've seen has been in the lounge.

[Bunny]

10. The Lounge can be nasty.

Some people seem to think that because it's the Lounge, they have carte blanche to indulge their basest instincts. If you call them on anything, you're told "Hey, it's the Lounge - lighten up".

Many people deeply resent that they have to remain respectful, even in the Lounge. Having to be the dreaded "PC" cuts down on their god-given right to be an asshole. And woe be unto you if you call them on it.

Now, I have posted many pictures of my huge crush, Jude Law. I swoon over him routinely, and it is strictly because of his looks. I have never seen any of his films. I have no idea if he is good at his work or not, I just like the way he looks. Does this make me part of the problem, in reverse? I wonder sometimes where the line is drawn.

[redqueen]

9. I'm torn on the "boys club" stuff...

some I understand (because the women do it, too - including yours truly)... some I loathe.

:shrug:

[Heddi]

11. The lounge is a living Fart, Tit, and Ass Joke that just reinvents itself

every day.

It's Cliquish. It's for the "Kewl Kidz". Anyone who says "But annnnyyyooonee is welcome in the lounge" is most likely one of those that goes off line to chat with the other Kewl Kidz and har har and tee hee at the "Oh look who's trying to join our club" comments (I've seen them. I know that this happens).

There was a poster a few months ago that was in a quandry because he hadn't told his wife about a degenerative disease that he'd known about for the past 15 years. I felt badly for him---it was a disease that's easy to disguise, or explain away, it isn't 'constant' until later in life, and it doesn't usually even begin to affect people until they're past 50.

Well EVERYONE--I mean EVERYONE jumped on his shit. Called him a two-faced liar, this that and the other. I was one of the FEW people who actually supported him, and while I would never suggest that someone be deceitful to others they love, I can completely empathize with someone and at least understand why they would have done this.

And during the thread (which was so vicious that it wasn't even funny. You'd have thought he was asking peopel for money or something) he was PM'ing me, thanking me for my support. And I told him then, and I stand by my statement, that had one of the Lounge Regulars come out and said the SAME FUCKING THING, the praise and empathy and sorrow and "Oh you poor wounded dove...here, let me lick your wounds" would have been just pouring out for hundreds and hundreds of posts.

But this dude--I'd only seen him in passing in GD. He's not a "regular". Not one of the "Old Tymers" who can list every single post they've ever made in the 123o984293874108764240958309842-309846 years they've been on DU and MY GOD THEY HAVE 198298374923874 posts so that AUTOMATICALLY makes them a good person :eyes:

---

If you see a thread in the lounge that's offensive, and you make a comment about it, you're uptight, need to get laid, probably ugly or unsexed, probably fat, probably lonely, blah blah blah.

God forbid you make a comment about one of the Kewl Kidz...their little gang of Keyboard Kommandos will come out of the woodwork and hound you NOT ONLY on a thread, but via PM's as well.

The Lounge, imo, is the equivalent of the "Cool" lunch table at high school. Sure, they may let you sit there for lunch, but they'll make you wish you never thought of it, and they'll remind you every minute of your fucking life that you are not, and never will be part of their little secret enclave of coolness and smarm and blech.

[Beaverhausen]

12. It reminds me of high school too, but I don't find it "cool" at all

I think the sexism in the lounge is rampant. Not in all threads but a lot of them. It does seem to be accepted in there.

And really, most of those people should know better. People on DU are supposed to be progressive and more liberal in their views and actions, right? I just can't stand that kind of sexism. And fortunately I can ignore it by just staying out of there.

If anyone here hangs in the lounge well, more power to you. No more for me. I left high school a looooooong time ago.

[Heddi]

20. I don't find it "cool" either...

but then again, I was never one to fawn over the cheerleaders and other self-proclaimed "Popular" crowd in High School either.

These people *should* know better---and it really makes me question their "liberalism"---it's bad to say Nigger. It's bad to call someone a Raghead. But it's okay to talk about tight ass and huge tits and how trashy Brittney looks in this and how Hottttt!!! Angelina Jolie looks and oh how I'd like to put HER use to lips (wink! wink! nudge! nudge!) Bitch needs to get laid! Tom Cruise needs to be bitch-slapped. Mannn Coulter. Fat Actress....it goes on and on

The other day, someone had a pic in their sigline that said "While you're down there, how about sucking my dick"

That was the day that I turned off the signature option. I don't need that bullshit in my fucking day. "While you're down there, how about sucking my dick"---real fucking classy AND *so* liberal to boot :eyes:

I think alot of these people (ahem--boys AND girls) in the lounge have bought into the bullshit Right-Wing talking points about what being Politically Correct is and isn't.

It's not "PC" to tell someone thank you.

It IS PC to not use the word "nigger"

It's not PC to stop doing something that someone finds offensive. It's called "politeness". Or "not rude". It seems that "polite" or "not rude" or "not an asshole" are concepts that just fly above the heads of the neandertals that inhabit the lounge. What? you're offended by "Bitch?" Well! I'm not gonna be hounded by some POLITICALLY CORRECT NAZI FEMINIST...I'm a woman..I'm not offended by Bitch, therefore, YOU SHOULDN'T EITHER. :eyes:

But I guess they've found that you can be a charmer in GD, but let it all hang out in the Lounge. Some of the most prolific and mysogonist posters claim to be the pinnacle of Liberalism. Sorry, but that shit don't fly in my book, and when I see them waxing poetic about the plight of the blacks, adn the gays, and this group and that group, I just have to laugh considering they were just oogling Pamela Anderson in the lounge and flaming people who get upset with the constant sexisim. Real fucking progressive.

The funny thing is----all of these oogling males----where are THEIR pictures posted? They have half-hidden face shots in the Lounge. Come on, big guy....let's see YOU in a speedo. Let's see YOUR perfect fucking body.

:crickets chirping:

[Beaverhausen]

21. THANK YOU!!! Great post

Another thing I notice is how many of the people who populate the lounge are never seen anywhere else on the site. I guess politics isn't their main concern. Not that I mind not running into them on the other forums. I'm glad I don't have to.

[lukasahero]

31. Re: the assumption that "progressive" means "progress"

I have one point that, I hope, might bring some insight into the phenomenon. My ex-husband will go to his death bed claiming to be a "progressive" because he wants pot legalized.

He also called himself an "environmentalist" but he wanted no environmental regulations (EPA "interference") on fishing (his hobby). He supported the NRA and called environmentalists who would put restrictions on where he could fish in order to minimize ecogological destruction of the habitat or the extinction of a species, "eco-terrorists".

And then there's the whole part about him routinely beating the crap out of me when I wouldn't "put out" because he believed it was his "right" and my "duty" as his wife to have sex with him whenever and however he wanted regardless of how I was feeling at the time. He claimed to be a "feminist" because, as he declared to my brother-in-law, "I can't wait until she's making $60k so I can quit my job and fish all day."

But yeah, he's "progressive." :eyes:

[FizzFuzz]

36. wow, lukasa, now I know how you got to be so strong

I mean, you come across as a very strong woman.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, I HATE the prevalence of violence against women in this country, and the macho attitudes that nurture it.

And the point you bring up is perfect.

I've brought up a similar issue many times, trying to make a clear comparison, getting the sexist to see that he wouldn't say Nigger....etc.

The blindness to sexism drives me nuts.

I go to the Lounge because I like absurd humor and there are a few hilarious people there; and some of those same people say some sexist shit. (Others don't, glad to say)

I also notice a distinct cold shoulder towards me, I assume because I've pointed out sexism alot.

After awhile I do get tired of seeing nothing change, though.

[noamnety]

34. I remember that thread

I was right in there next to you.

The general tone in there horrified me.

[Finder]

13. I don't hang in the lounge but...

it is meant to be laid back and fun. I feel uncomfortable reading some of these posts slamming the lounge.(wow) Many a time I have been pissed off or down and a dose of Matcom or Catwoman cheered me right up.

Unlike high school cliques, they are pretty welcoming, IMO.

I see it very akin to going out for a drink at the neighborhood bar.

[redqueen]

14. That's how I see it as well.

Some days I stay in LBN reading, or in GD... but sometimes I need a break and I find the Lounge an amusing place to de-stress.

[Bunny]

15. I have also had my share of hijinks in the Lounge.

It is lots of fun some days. In fact, I spend at least half of my DU time there.

But there are times when people lose control and behave inappropriately. Pointing that out isn't necessarily "slamming" the Lounge.

[Finder]

18. "Inappropriately"?

Adults can act any way they choose. Judging the behavior of others is inappropriate. IMO

[Bunny]

19. Fine. Whatever.

[Beaverhausen]

22. You might want to read the mission statement of this group

just an idea.

[Bunny]

24. Thank you!

Good idea.

[chicaloca]

26. Judging somebody based solely on their looks or gender is inappropriate

IMO.

And oh yeah, what if somebody's behavior includes beating his wife? Is it inappropriate then to judge their behavior? How else are we supposed to decide what we think of a person, if not by their behavior?

[Finder]

27. Messageboard behavior...

of fellow DUers is what I was referring to. Most notably talking behind the backs of such.

[Bunny]

28. Can you possibly elaborate on this?

Who talks about who behind their backs?

[Kipepeo]

41. inappropriate as in blatantly Sexist

but I guess adults can "act anywhay they choose" or how does it go...boys will be boys?

You don't see how making excuses for it helps to silence any people (specifically *women* in the case of sexist posts) who take issue with it?

I enjoy posting nonsense in the lounge as much as the next person, but I do notice that whenever something is blatantly sexist and someone calls it out that person is immediately told to chill out, or is called a prude in so many words, etc. I usually stay away from those threads now because I feel it's not worth it.

[Beaverhausen]

16. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am

I personally think the tone of the thread that started THIS thread is insulting to women as I find many threads in the lounge to be. I don't think it's "laid back and fun" for a bunch of grown men to discuss women's bodies and looks, etc. If people were talking like that in a bar I was in I would surely not participate in the conversation and I would most likely sit as far away from them as possible.

You don't have a problem with it. That's fine. Have fun in the Lounge. I'm staying out. :hi:

[Heddi]

23. A neighborhood bar filled with jerks, perhaps

See, my friends (the people I go to bars with and hang out with) don't sit for hours criticising people on their looks, their weight, their height, their tits, their ass. They don't make fun of people who are fat, or skinny, or ugly.

If they did (which they don't), they then don't go and accuse other people who overheard the conversation of being fat, or ugly, or repressed themselves (Because, you know, you can only be upset at sexism if you're a repressed female, and you can only be upset at people calling another 'ugly' if you're ugly yourself).

No, it's not like any bar I'd go to. It's like those bars frequented by frat boys and sorority girls who love nothing more than the sound of their own voice, and make sure that they'll ALWAYS laugh at their own lame jokes, even if no one else does.

The lounge, for me, is neither laid back nor fun. It makes me very uncomfortable to be around CONSTANT posts about WHO IS THE HOTTEST DUer? WHO DO YOU HAVE A DU CRUSH ON? WHO IS THE SEXIEST DU'er? You're telling me that's not exclusionary? You're telling me that's not done as an ego-trip?

It's not fun to constantly see posts about who is hot and who is not, and how I, in no way, meet the oh-so-high standards of a 35 year old man who's never had a date and whose only interaction with women is when Mommy brings home the bridge club on Tuesday afternoons. I see that shit on television, I see it in magazines, I see it in movies and videos and EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF MY LIFE. I don't think it's wrong to call it out when I see it in advertising, and it's equally not wrong to call it out when it's in the lounge.

I don't let sexism, racism, ageism, or other forms of bigotry go uncalled in my day to day life. But I guess I'm supposed to hang my hat at the door because Hey! It's the lounge!

fuck
that
shit
.

[Book Lover]

17. No, it's not just you

I'm so glad this poster is OK with non-anorexic (but not *too* fat, please) women...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3488348&mesg_id=3489050

[redqueen]

25. Stuff like that makes me cringe.

I'm not too "mature" to appreciate a man's good looks in a bawdy lounge thread, but there's a line that's too often crossed when a woman's looks are the subject.

[Vladimir]

30. I think the problem is one of context

If I was watching a TV show by myself, I would notice how attractive the presenter (most of the female ones and some of the male ones) was almost all the time. If I was sitting and talking about it with a group of friends, yeah, I might comment that she is 'hot' or what have you - to a certain extent, if they are attractive then they are attractive, although obviously one judges whether such comments will cause offence to anyone etc. But DU is neither of these things - its a public forum, and the rules are somewhat different. You wouldn't walk into a crowded lecture theatre and shout 'My god our lecturer has a nice pair of tits on her!' after all... so yeah, I think you have a point.

[geniph]

32. Well put, Vladimir...

the Lounge sometimes ends up with a distinctly locker-room feel to it. There have been times when I couldn't take the endless fighting and bitching in GD or LBN and spent most of my time in the Lounge, but it gets old pretty quickly - at least, it does if you're more than 14 years old. These days, I spend all my time in here. ;-)

But you're right, something that might be appropriate at, say, a bachelor's party is distinctly inappropriate in a business meeting. By the same token, the bachelor-party vibe of the Lounge is disconcerting to those who come to DU for serious political discussion. And vice versa.

[Beaverhausen]

33. So today's Lounge joke was about "Fat Actress"

and disguising it as "chicken"

nice.

I was spending some time there to see if it had gotten any better since I stopped going a few months ago. It didn't.

[Misunderestimator]

37. THAT's what it was about?!?

Are you serious? the chicken stuff was about Fat Actress??

[Beaverhausen]

38. I gathered that from one of the posts on Skinner's thread

but I dont' know for sure since I hardly ever go to the lounge anymore. But I think it had to do with the whole dust up surrounding "Fat Actress" and a couple of posters who were banned. I'm sure you remember that whole thing.

I could be wrong though.

[Misunderestimator]

39. Well, I don't think that's what it was about...

Though coincidentally, I did change my avatar to Kirstie Alley last night for kicks... that's why your post startled me. Would be really weird if that's what the chicken stuff was about and there I am with Fat Actress avatar. I have a feeling maybe you saw my avatar and made the connection that way? :shrug: I certainly didn't mean to imply there was a connection, other than it being a similar ridiculous subject for a flamewar.

[Beaverhausen]

40. No I hadn't seen your avatar- I got offline at 6 PM pacific time

So I guess I'm wrong about it. My bad.

I have to remember to stay out of the lounge.