So, how do you deal with the 'imnotafeministbut' crowd?

[geniph]

You know who I mean - most of them are women, and they always start any conversation about women's issues with that statement. "I'm not a feminist, but..." and then go on to say that they think women should have access to the same health care as men, they should be paid the same for equal work, they should have equal access to opportunity, etc. What, precisely, do these people think feminism IS? Having hairy armpits? Berating all men for having penises?

These women baffle me more than male misogynists. How do YOU deal with them?

[Solly Mack]

1. I tell them they're in denial.

Cause they are feminists...but they have had their world viewed shaped by idiots who use the word feminist in a negative way. So I let them know they're still allowing sexism to define them as women.

[Chovexani]

2. There was a terrific essay on Tomato Nation about this

Yes, You Are
So much for the dress code.


feminism n (1895) 1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes 2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests -- feminist n or adj -- feministic adj



Above, the dictionary definition of feminism -- the entire dictionary definition of feminism. It is quite straightforward and concise. If you believe in, support, look fondly on, hope for, and/or work towards equality of the sexes, you are a feminist.

Yes, you are.

The definition of feminism does not ask for two forms of photo ID. It does not care what you look like. It does not care what color skin you have, or whether that skin is clear, or how much you weigh, or what you do with your hair. You can bite your nails, or you can get them done once a week. You can spend two hours on your makeup, or five minutes, or the time it takes to find a Chapstick without any lint sticking to it. You can rock a cord mini, or khakis, or a sari, and you can layer all three. The definition of feminism does not include a mandatory leg-hair check; wax on, wax off, whatever you want. If you believe in, support, look fondly on, hope for, and/or work towards equality of the sexes, you are a feminist.

Yes, you are.
http://www.tomatonation.com/youare.shtml/page.html
--

One of the many reasons why Sars is one of my favorite people on the internets. This is printed out and on my fridge.

[BlueIris]

8. Ah, yes. I was wondering if I would need to link to that, but nope.

Silly, Iris. I forget how big a fan base she has.

[geniph]

11. "the time it takes to find a Chapstick without any lint"

...hey, that's me! :D

[efhmc]

3. Then don't vote, don't work outside the home, don't own property,

don't hold public office, etc. Otherwise you are a feminist or a moocher off of the hard fought for rights of feminists.

[cally]

4. I ask them what they think being a feminist means

and why they are against it? I then point out all feminists have fought for and gained for women.

[Eloriel]

5. Well, as someone who once used to SAY just that --

and I remembered what came on the other end of the "but:" I believe in equal pay.

The proper response to me at that time would have been a gentle, nurturing, sisterly:

"Well, of course you're a feminist then. A feminist is simply someone who believes women should have the same rights and opportunities as men. Here are the names of some books that will explain much more to you if you'd like the truth. I'm afraid the media has distorted both feminists and feminism so you'll have to go to original source material for an accurate depiction and explanation."

[preciousdove]

6. Amen and...

This is occurring because some women, either naive to what they were saying or who actually hated all men, misused feminism. Although it is true that the media wrongly gave these women voice over those who were truly concerned with the rights of women as a necessary means to a good, just, successful and productive society that is a perception that mainstream Americans often hold.

I have a tendency to cringe when I hear someone start a statement "I am a feminist and" but I always hear them out. But then at my age I am suspicious of anyone who claims to have an agenda until I learn more (sigh).

Hope this forum is a good thing and welcome.

:toast:

[BlueIris]

7. I ask them: "Do you believe in equality for and empowerment of

women?" If they say yes, I say, "Congratulations, you're a feminist!" I haven't had anyone have the guts to admit to my face that they don't believe in that simple concept yet. If it's a stranger, that's all I can do, especially if we're not in a place where it's an option to open a dialogue and have a long conversation. I've worked harder to convince women in my life who have not yet explored or embraced feminism even though they admit that "of course" they believe in at least feminism's most basic concepts that they should at least do some reading.

[PassingFair]

9. Donning flame-retardant suit, but here goes....

It seems to me that the real objection, stated or implied (sometimes subconsciously) is the draft issue.
Most women I know who fit into "feminist" mode, but claim not to be, are tripped up by women in the military, specifically, they don't believe that women should be drafted.
I tend to agree (someone has to see that children's best interests are paramount, and usually that's the mother).
Just my take on this.....
P.S., I'm a PROUD feminist!

[xmas74]

10. I don't think that anyone should be drafted, at least not right now.

As to the children's best interest-that could just as easily be the father. We don't know in that situation. The person that should be drafted should be the person who has the best qualifications for becoming a good soldier whether they are male or female. What would have to be decided in that situation is which family member would go and which would stay home. It's as simple as that.
btw-I would never flame you. I hate flaming in general.

[geniph]

12. I'd rather no one was drafted,

but with equal rights must come equal responsibilities. If boys have to register for Selective Service at 18, then so should girls. However, I'd much prefer NO ONE had to register.

[lukasahero]

13. I also don't believe anyone should be forced to go to war

But if we have a draft, it should be for both men and women. It's both what's fair and the only thing that could give the wing nut war-mongers pause since so many war-mongers also seem to think of women as "delicate flowers".

[DoveTurnedHawk]

14. "Feminist" Has Effectively Been Demonized Just Like the Word "Liberal"

And it's not just the RW doing it, it's also the media and even some "traditional" women, sadly. People flee from the word, which is too bad, because equality in truth for all people ought to be a fundamental priority for all Americans.

DTH

[chicaloca]

15. I've actually had really good luck converting my female friends

(Although I don't know if it could really be called "converting," since most such women already are feminists in theory but are just afraid of the word or misunderstand it.) I honestly couldn't tell you for sure why I succeed so often, though. I just tend to communicate really well with women, but with men I seem to be anathema in political debates. I usually don't challenge I'mnotafeministbut women's assertion that they're not feminists right away, but I just engage them in a mutual kvetching session about aspects of women's lives that are really unjust. Beauty standards are a great way to start, I've found, as are double standards for male and female sexual behavior. In summer, street harassment is also an issue that a lot of women worry about but often don't bring up. Basically, I try to find common ground with them rather than arguing, and then at some point in my friendship with that person, I'll mention really offhandedly that I support feminism. Then, at a later point, I'll come right out and say that I'm a feminist. It actually worked really well with my current roommate, who said in our first few months of living together that she's not a feminist but.... And then guess who joined an online feminist group about a week ago? (A real one, not an ifeminist group, thankyouverymuch.) I think women are just so used to not having their ideas and concerns taken seriously, even by other women, that it's really validating when another person takes their concerns so seriously and empathize with them. And when they find out that person is a feminist, they begin to question their assumptions about what a feminist really is. Overall, I just try to be really pro-woman in all my dealings with any woman, no matter what her ideas are, and not judge, because a lot of us have pretty much been brainwashed into accepting our own oppression, which is one of the most brilliant tactics of patriarchy. In my experience, almost-feminist women just need to know that somebody else out there thinks the same things that they're afraid to say, and they need to know that feminists are the ones who are fighting to change those things.

[Kenneth ken]

16. I say, "Oh, I am"

yay a place in this group for me to post, finally. I've been reading a number of the threads here. Good stuff, but I haven't had anything to add until this thread.

[Chovexani]

17. Glad to have you Ken

Look forward to seeing your thoughts on things. :hi:

[Kenneth ken]

18. thanks much

:hi:

I'm not sure I have all that many thoughts, but I do like learning.

[Chovexani]

19. This group is really cool

If you want to learn you've come to the right place. I've been learning ever since it started. :)