How quickly they're ready to sell our rights up the river

[Heddi]

It seems like things around here are always cyclical, eh?

So now Sandra Day O'Connor is retiring. And prominent DU'ers (majority, far majority, male) have gleeful twinkles in their eyes at the mere idea that abortion rights will be overturned or strictly curtailed.

But, see, it'll be a WIN in the END because we'll get more MODERATES to our side, possibly, maybe, and even possibly perhaps a few REPUBLICANS, see, so really, girls, no need for you to worry your pretty little heads about not having access to such trivial things like appropriate health care, safe and regulated abortion services, unfettered access to contraceptives of your choice....by giving up just a few rights...and really they're quite insignificant...can't you see that you are HELPING the MAJORITY of PEOPLE in this COUNTRY by giving us something that we can supposedly FIGHT for, you know, because we sit behind our computers and type messages into a white box...we're activists, by god, even if only on a computer screen.

So see, gals, there's a silver lining to this O'Connor retiring thing. The silver lining is that FINALLY...FINALLY you will have little to no rights at all...and for the BETTERMENT of the COuntry! Doesn't that make you feel GOOD? You should be PROUD that white, heterosexual males are more than willing to sell YOUR rights up the river so that we can be faux activists and pretend to be all aghast and such.

You should feel PROUD that you, my dears, are the sacrifical lambs in this debate. I mean, *I* am a man, and *I* would never have an abortion....and if the Republicans say you shouldn't well...they're probably right. And, as we all know, We're a STRONGER Democratic party when we agree line by line with everything the Republicans say. Because, in the end, we may JUST gain one or two moderates and in the end, isn't that what it's all about---getting votes?

Who wants to be a party who actually *gasp* stands up for civil liberties? Who wants to be THAT party? Not me, for sure!

[VelmaD]

1. If you haven't already posted this...

on Will's thread in GD...you should.

[noamnety]

2. It makes me ill

I hope his silver lining is large enough to line the caskets of all the women that are going to need it.

I can't imagine looking at photos of slaughtered Iraqi children and saying "chin up, there's a silver lining" or reacting to people dying because they can't afford to take medicine AND eat, by saying "well, there's an upside - most people oppose this."

[Hello_Kitty]

3. How about this one?

No forced birther candidate gets my vote or support. Ever. Period. Granted, I've been forced to hold my nose and pull the lever for those who went along with travesties like the late term abortion ban or the Laci Peterson law. But no one who describes themselves as anti-choice. I'll vote for a pro-choice Republican with far right economic views before I'll vote for an anti choice Dem with impeccable credentials otherwise.

Therefore, I'm often admonished for being a "single issue" voter, usually by males who tell me that I should put things in perspective and, you know, compromise "for the big picture".

Nope. No can do. If I ain't got control over my reproduction, I ain't got shit.

[MuseRider]

4. Well you know

if we can't get abortions that are safe and legal or access to birth control then they do not HAVE to have sex.

Somehow I think that they think that nothing will change for them. Always willing to sell us out but how will they feel when sex becomes even more dangerous and we decide the risk is just too big? Hmmmmm boys? Still think this is just the ticket to pick up those moderate votes?

[VelmaD]

5. After thinking about this and talking about it with people...

I have at least figured out what they're thinking even if I don't agree with it. They're thinking that if the repubs over-reach here and their party fractures that we will win big in the '06 mid-terms (and eventually the 08 Presidential election) and then Congress can repeal some of the bad stuff that has been enacted over the last few years and pass new laws that protect choice and a lot of other issues we hold dear.

Like I said, I'm not sure I buy it and I'm inclined not to - I've heard the whole "the repubs are coming unglued" thing one too many times...but I've finally at least figured out what they're arguing for...which to borrow a quote from our pretzeldent was "hard work" since even Pitt does a piss poor job of explaining it.

For my next trick...I'll figure out a way of explaining to them why we don't believe our rights would only be sacrificed for a short-term.

[Heddi]

9. I understand their position

I just think it's the wrong position to take and they're really placing all their eggs in one basket...all of MY eggs in one basket, to be precise.

If the USSC does ANYTHING to the right to receive abortion services, there are NUMEROUS states that would make abortions illegal unless the health of the mother is in danger (altho the last part is really just conjecture because they could give two shits about the life of a 'woman'). I live in Washington State---very liberal. I don't forsee abortion access being done away with here.

However, I'm not willing to be complacent about the rights of women that live in states like SOuth Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, Kansas...because THEIR rights WILL be compromised more than they already are. Just because I have access to abortion providers doesn't mean that they will---and that's the issue.

Of course, these men puff out their chest and offer empty platitudes like 'well, ANY liberal who lives in the SOUTH deserves blah blah blah." As if it's just so fucking easy to pack up everything you own and move to another state. Yeah. Piece of fucking cake.

Straight
White
Males

willing to sell out the rights of anyone who isn't
STraight
White
Male

They blamed the loss in last year's elections on:

Gay Rights (not straight)
Affirmative Action (not white)
Abortion rights (not male)

Strange.

I've asked this before at least 5 times and have gotten no answers as of yet:

WHAT RIGHTS are STRAIGHT WHITE MALES willing to give up so that we can win some votes? When are STRAIGHT WHITE MALES going to offer up some of the peice of their fucking pie so that we can win an election or three?

Why always Minorities, Gays, and Women? Why are WE constantly the sacrificial lambs?

Gays were told prior to the election to stop being so POLARIZING with their gay marriage bullshit.

Women were told prior to the election to stop being so POLARIZING with their abortion bullshit.

Minorities were encouraged to stop harping about Affirmative Action because it was so POLARIZING.

I've yet to see ONE poll that shows that if Dems would back down on gay rights, abortion, or Afirm. Act. that moderates would come to our side in DROVES. Not ONE poll shows that. NOT ONE>

So let's say we give up Abortion to win. We give up gay rights to win. We give up affirmative action, and welfare rights, and all kinds of nasty little things like civil rights, etc, to win.

But what happens if, even after we've sold our country up the river for the all fucking mighty VOTE...what happens if *gasp* we DON'T win? That the moderates and centrists and fence-sitters didn't come over in droves? What if they came over in enough droves, but the backwards steps of the democratic party forced women, minorities, and homosexuals to do something so crazy like VOTE THIRD PARTY?

Of course, we'd STILL be blamed for not holding our noses and voting for 'their guy' even though 'our guy' stood up for our rights.

It's a no-win situation. What *I* see people on DU advocating today (and after the 2004 election) is to basically be liberal republicans. Just left of center republicans. Forget about equal rights, dammit! We need to win some fucking elections.

Sorry.

Not this time, bub.

I voted for JOhn Kerry even though I couldn't stand the man. But I did it. I did my duty and voted with my finger instead of my conscience.

Never
Again.

They wanna sell MY fucking uterus up the fucking river? Go ahead, boys. You think that's gonna end all your pesky wimmin problems? Go ahead...see how much YOU like having to choose between Republican and Republican...because when you sell MY rights up the river, that's what you've become...a fucking Republican in a Liberal's clothing.

[VelmaD]

13. I agree with you 100 percent...

But I would like to be able to give some of the guys on DU the benefit of the doubt. I think some of them honestly do believe that the republicans won't really ban abortions because they do need it as a wedge issue to drive their base. It's just easier for them to believe that way since it won't really effect them if they're wrong.

I want to think that they honestly believe that this strategy will win us the 06 mid-terms, not by dragging "moderate" republicans into our party...but by turning them off to the repubs so much that they just don't vote for them. I want to think they really aren't talking about sacrificing anyone's rights...but rather winning back Congress so we can protect those rights.

But it's hard. I do believe some of them are operating in good faith and they are genuinely hurt that we don't trust them or believe them. They just don't get it yet but may be educatable. But there are others who are not really liberals or progressives at heart who don't give a rat's ass about people who aren't straight white males. And sometimes it's hard to know who falls in each camp.

This whole thing is eating me up.

[FizzFuzz]

19. what you said

:(

This isn't some abstract political game, this is women's lives,safety...

[Solly Mack]

6. Did you notice how quick they popped up after the announcement?

The let the states fight it out thinking sells out women who live in some very theocratic states.

[VelmaD]

7. I made one of the DU good guys laugh today about that...

GOPisEvil and I email back and forth at work all the time. When that whole "state's rights" nonsense got posted my comment to him was: "Ahh...State's rights...super-secret republican code for rampant racism, sexism and homophobia."

He snorted. :)

[Solly Mack]

8. lol! Some of the best comments made come in emails about threads

:)

GOPisEvil is a very good guy!

[VelmaD]

10. If he ever says something even remotely sexist...

we don't have to deal with him. I'll just forward it to his mother. She's one of those tiny little ladies who rules with an iron fist. One day I want to meet her in person just to see if she lives up to the stories he tells about her. :)

[Solly Mack]

11. lolol!

[cally]

12. I'm not sure I'm able to venture into GD today.

My stomach is upset and I'm in a cold sweat thinking about what this means for women. I can't joke about this or think about it in some abstract political sense. This is our lives and lives of our daughters.

[Heddi]

14. Completely correct

This is no laughing matter, it is a matter of life and death for millions of women in this country as well as the millions who will be born into a world so hostile to them, so hateful of their mere existence as to see them as nothing more than incubators.

I was out in my garden watering my tomatoes earlier and I just started crying. Because I don't think there's a silver lining. I don't think that a moderate who is soft on abortion will be nominated. I don't think the Democrats will use the SC nomination to fillibuster. I think that once again, women of this country have been handed a big steaming pile of shit, given a spoon and told to smile, at least you got something to eat when so many don't.

[cally]

15. I'm hoping for torture Gonzales

I think he would support Roe v. Wade, get approval, and be somewhat moderate. Any of the appointees would be horrible. All have decisions and recomendations that make me sick, literally. I think he's our only chance to protect our rights to our bodies.

[Hello_Kitty]

16. How sad is that?

Friggin Gonzales is our BEST option. :puke:

[cally]

17. Pretty awful

I hate the man.

[BlueIris]

21. You're a wise poster. It's pretty hairy.

It's up to every poster, Democrat, feminist and thinking individual to decide what, if anything, the average man on the street can do to stop what's coming; but I say save yourself the aggro and don't go near the crazies in GD for awhile.

[anitar1]

18. This will sound so far fetched to many , but if every woman

withheld sex from men, it would not take long for things to turn around. But that will never happen. I recommend reading Sherri S. Teppers book, The Fresco, it is a terific book for feminists. Fiction and absolutely delightful. It is out in paperback at Borders. Give it a try, you will love it.

[BlueIris]

20. Oh, I don't plan on having sex with anyone who isn't pro-choice

in the PUREST sense of that term ever again. I haven't compromised in a long time and I don't plan to. Actually, I won't have sex with any man still capable of impregnating me, but that's a post for another thread, I guess. THANK YOU so much for this recommendation, though. I've been thinking about telling all women everywhere to start respecting themselves and approaching their lives and relationships from the "no interaction unless he's a feminist" perspective for awhile now. According to the ancient Greeks, this method can even stop wars. And my mother tells stories about how effective it was in the 1970s. (Sorry more mature DUers, I'm still one of those pesky "under thirty" newbies.)

[Finder]

22. Good topic for another thread. "Sex is Power"

however, it tends to divide feminists historically. I personally believe it has to do with our individual esteem and levels of sexuality and so ends up making some feel "powerless" and others "empowered."

[BlueIris]

23. Just for the official record, my own belief is that women, en mass,

having the self-respect to realize that maybe they SHOULDN'T EVEN CONSIDER having a relationship that includes sex with someone who is not only NOT supportive of all of the options a woman should have available to her in the event she had to deal with certain consequences as the result of having sex but isn't ACTIVELY working to help protect those human rights. A realization like that is what's important. No woman should disrespect herself by sleeping with someone anti-choice, or ambivalent about choice. I'm not about "manipulating" people into doing anything by denying affection, including sexual affection. But according to my mother and some books I read, men realized it might behoove them to stop treating women and women's rights like shit when the feminist movement caught on huge in the late '60s. I think many men legitimately realized how fucked up patriarchy is, but many of them came to this realization after women lost the desire to have relationships with any man not respectful of and in fact INTO the Movement.

[Finder]

24. Unfortunately, many women still believe...

they can change a guy. Our sisters who are compelled to marry so they "fit in" often find themselves in relationships with abusers. If we all used the litmus test we would be better off.

To clarify--educate and change are not the same.