Did I offend?

[undergroundpanther]

With the"turning tables" post?

I was wondering about the issue of how can we to get men to feel for themselves what it is that misgyny does on the inside of the heart. Was the post too graphic or what? If so I didn't mean harm by it ..I just wanted to provoke thoughts and all. To pose the question about the 'flipside' and to consider what it all might mean if it can be used at all as a toool to further the call for a closer look at communication and intention.

[Eloriel]

1. I didn't see it, but I'd like to. Where would I find it? n/t

[Heddi]

3. It's gone

poof.

I was replying to the post and as I hit the 'post message' button, I got an error message that the thread no longer existed, never had existed, and the mere thought shoudl never have crossed our minds. Stay in your place, girls, don't go messin with them men. They don't mean ya no harm. They just funnin with ya. Take a joke. lighten up. get laid. Whassamatter, got PMS? on the rag? No good sex lately? A little uptight? Just get yer ass back in the kitchen, honey, and fix me some dinner and git me a beer.

Nope. No post left. It's gone. Although I never in my wildest dreams imagined it would last the 4 seconds that it did.

[Heddi]

2. I was going to reply to it

and as I hit the 'post' button--poof. Gone. No record. Not just locked, scrubbed, washed away.

Double plus good!

And, the question you asked re: what would happen if we turned the tables---I think you got your answer by what happened to your thread. (which I was in the middle of writing WOULD happen if we did that. WE would be banned, or locked out, or have our threads poof away into the great oblivion known as The Internet. Not acceptable, unless, you know, the tables remain unturned. Then that's just peachy)

[Eloriel]

4. Where was it?

You guys mean a whole thread just DISAPPEARED?

If so, would you all PLEASE complain to Skinner about it? Please.

I've complained about the moderator treatmtent in the thread I posted about separately a little bit ago -- the "astonishing" one. I don't know that it'll do any good, but my POINT is that some strange things are going on. The thread I complained about to Skinner wasn't the first one in which I questioned the actions of the moderator who locked that thread.

Eduted to add: And undergroundpanther, can you give us a flavor of what you had in it? That must've been some hummer of an OP. I'm REALLY curious.

[Heddi]

5. It was in this forum yesterday I believe

In fact I'm pretty sure it was yesterday altho It could have been today.

I saw it, and it was only a few minutes old when I clicked on it, read it, posted, but by the time I was done typing my reply it was gone.

the gist of the thread was what if we turned the tables on the DU men and started making sexist and generalized comments about men the same way that sexist and generalized comments are made about women. the OP parsed the question "what would happen if we did that" or something along those lines.

I guess we know the answer to that question, eh?

[chicaloca]

6. WTF is wrong with asking that?

It's a simple question, but obviously it's more important to not offend men than it is to not offend women.

Is DU about to get some money or sponsorship from some misogynist company or something? WTF is going on here?

[undergroundpanther]

19. The first thing

a bully (any bully)wants to do is SHUT UP the person they have hurt,silence the rightful anger and expression of the voice that tells the bully/wannabe dominator what they really ARE(bullies) and what they are DOING is wrong,and how it HURTS.
It's the same reason vivisectionists deliberately cut the vocal chords of dogs they cut up"for science" alive,because if the "scientist" was to have to HEAR the crying and whimpering of the dog he is torturing he would have to feel what the dog is feeling and realize HE is causing the suffering and is GUILTY of causing traumas and inflicting torture on another living feeling sentient being.

I mean what do abusers do when their victims scream they hit them and scream SHUT UP!

Because the truth...hurts.And the asshole doing the hurting should feel the burn of his shame.Only a "culture for company" can negate the burn of shame by normalizing abuses and blaming the victim for being hurt by an abuser who CHOSE all by himself to do the harm to another. Violence to others that is NOT done in self defense is ALWAYS the result of a deliberate voluntary conscious choice a person makes.And that is the ugly truth a bully does not want to have spoken out loud.

Sadly in this bully loving culture,the truth comes out too often in ignored or minimized screams,inarticulate or stifled words ,confused anger, self blame ,or it comes out years later when nothing can be done to get justice.The truth in a sane culture should be said with an accusing finger of responsibility directed at the bully who is doing the wrong, the victim speaking clearly with the voice of the wronged,listened to and heard and backed up with a culture that is intolerant of abusers and refusing to by-stand while abuses occur and that make no rationalizations for those bullies choosing to abuse..

But sadly our culture is SICK.

[smirkymonkey]

23. Well, lets do it anyway.

A lot. And then they will complain about sexism. And then we can tell them to lighten up and go get laid or something.

[Ripley]

7. I answered your post, but I did not ask for it to be deleted.

I have no idea what happened to that thread. Please don't blame me.

But speaking of "did I offend?" How come I am completely offended in this thread and it is allowed to stand?

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=229&topic_id=2806&mesg_id=2816

[MuseRider]

8. I answered you too

but indeed, it is gone. It was an interesting question. It did not offend me, I was looking forward to everyones input.

BTW, it is not possible to flip side these kinds of things. Treat them like sex objects? Ohhhh they are so happy. Respond either way and you are still an object or a "w"itch. There was lots more to it but I just got home and need to find out about this lovely SCOTUS nominee. It was an interesting question though, is sure did not seem to offend the two or three of us who answered before it was yanked.

Heeeeeeere we go ladies and like minded men. We have some work ahead of us with Roberts.

[Ripley]

9. You answered it too?

Good, it's not just me that was involved.

Who is responsible for deleting entire threads here? I'd like to know. Especially since there are such awful threads that are allowed to stand in other forums. What is going on?

[MuseRider]

10. My take on it is this.

It could have been thought of as a post to try to disrupt other posters or to at least stir that kind of thing up. I did not see it that way but do remember wondering at the time if it would last. I would bet a note to Skinner or one of the mods would clear it up fairly quickly.

Uppity women are usually watched pretty closely (I am not talking about the mods).

[Ripley]

11. Okay, so if we DISCUSS things...they are deleted without a word

And Bullshit men's sexist posts are allowed to stand for days, because it is what? Entertainment?

Not fair at all.

[MuseRider]

12. I agree.

Totally agree but as I said, it was about something that could have been seen as an attempt to start something. I have no idea and I am not sticking up for anyone. I have seen it before here, I believe it is up to the particular mods discretion. I think it is pretty odd considering some of the posts I have seen lately that could have been meant to tool us around. But seriously I have no clue. I thought it was something interesting to discuss and was sad to see it gone.

[Ripley]

13. All I know is that I was the first poster to answer...

And I said it was not a good idea. But I went on to say how that situation was foul.

I don't think I am allowed to speak honestly here. What a crying shame!

[MuseRider]

14. I said the same.

I know what you mean. Right now I am feeling very very touchy.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. Speaking of which...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x3682634


I've already alerted on it.

ON EDIT: Gone already, and not a moment too soon, a reproduction of an extremely offensive album cover posted in the Lounge.

[MuseRider]

16. LOL

I did too. AND it is now gone. YAY! I saw that the moment it came up on the latest page and I think my blood pressure shot up 20 points. That kind of post is always bad but tonight it is nothing more than deliberate rubbing of our noses in it.

[undergroundpanther]

17. Hmmmm

I the op I said some examples of sexist comments and voiced how they might sound in reverse.
I guess some dude didn't like how it sounded.I wonder if it made them feel how we feel hearing that shit in the lounge they think is "cute".

I also asked at the end of the OP if there ever was a porn movie made where the males in it were objectified and dehumanized sex receptacles , portrayed as submissive objects for use like women are in most porn already? And if so how did the men take it after they saw it?

[MuseRider]

22. Personally

I understood you completely but knowing and seeing other past groups get in trouble over doing just this thing I think that even talking about it is taken as something to worry about, even if everyone is clear that they think it would be wrong.

About your last paragraph. I said something about that in the deleted thread. It was something that Elaine Boosler had addressed at one time only a slightly different situation. It essentially said that these kinds of attitudes if turned around would be totally ineffective. These kinds of people would possibly enjoy it rather than feel objectified. After all, after it is all over with they still have all the power. I don't know the answer.

[undergroundpanther]

18. Har

I also said in the OP,that talking that reverse sexism was NOT a good idea I said that alerting mods was the best answer.. myself and it was couched as a WHAT IF kinda thing with examples of how male directed sexism might sound like.I gave a few creative examples,and wondered aloud how would the 'lounge'men react if they were the ones crowded out of threads by rude catcalls and comments that were sexist and directed at them? I asked the feminist group what do you think they would they do?
What would they do to defend themselves their own human dignity without their culture for company egging them on and approving it ... without that assumption/excuse that women are"too sensitive"? What would they do if they got the too sensitive/hysterical line every time they felt objectified, humiliated or discounted by sexist comments?
That was the gist of it.minus the colorful rude examples.

[Bunny]

20. I think you are right.

The post could have been seen as an attempt to organize a disruption, which is not what the private groups are for. I recall that shortly after the private groups started, someone in one of the religion groups posted, in that group, of getting a posse of some sort together to go invade some threads in GD. I don't recall specifics, but they were shot down by Admins. The ruling was that the groups were not to be used to organize disruption.

All of this does NOT, of course, excuse allowing threads that are offensive to women to remain unscathed. There's no excuse for that.

[lukasahero]

21. I certainly was not offended - a request for action on this

As some have noted, we should bring this and our frustration with the way it was handled to Skinner's attention. That is the important point - bring it to Skinner directly.

But, as others have said, I guess your question has been answered, ugpanther. :grr:

[chicaloca]

24. yes, we should do something

obviously whatever ugpanther wrote offended some guy (or guys) enough to have the thread deleted, which I think absolutely proves us right -- we always say that if they had to deal for even a day with what we deal with every day, they'd scream like a baby with a wet diaper. Well, now we have proof. And if they find such treatment that upsetting but still want to treat us the same way, then we need to discuss why that is.

[BlueIris]

25. Just for the official record, I had nothing to do with the deletion

of the post in question. For once. I'm sure it was excellent.