Proof that women are worth only livestock, and that's just okay

[Heddi]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4187479

Bill Clinton is offered 40 goats and 20 cows for his daughter
By Meera Selva
Published: 25 July 2005

Bill Clinton, used to a warm reception on his global goodwill missions, came away from Kenya this weekend with more than he bargained for.

The former US president must now consider whether the offer of 40 goats and 20 cows, made by an apparently lovestruck local official, is sufficient to persuade him to give up his daughter Chelsea for marriage.

Godwin Kipkemoi Chepkurgor wrote to Mr Clinton through Kenya's Foreign Minister, and promised him he would look after his daughter in style.

"Had I succeeded in wooing Chelsea, I would have had a grand wedding," promised the electrical engineering graduate. "I would have invited South African Anglican Archbishop Desmond Tutu to preside at the ceremony."

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Among the comments:

BUSH GOT OFFERED 2 GOATS AND 1 OLD COW FOR HIS 2 DAUGHTERS


LoL.....(smile)
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Throw Pickles into the bargain and it's almost a perfect swap

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this deserves a :wtf:

40 goats and 20 cows? Pfft, everybody knows Chelsea is worth a hundred of each
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What's he offering for Gin and Tonic?


(The Bush Daughters)

A squirrel and a dead rat?
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Too Funny


Wonder what the normal going rate for a bride is?

Actually, that is kind of low. According to heifer.org a cow is $500 and a goat $120, meaning the total price offered for Chelsea is $14,800

Gentlemen, what would you pay to have Chelsea as a bride? (emphasis MINE)

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That's a fair deal.


If he throws in some land on the beach

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Well hell, tell Bill I'll give him 50 goats and 25 cows


Let's start a bidding war. I like Chelsea

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100 goats and 50 cows!

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I only have 50 goats, but I'll up my cow contingent to 75!


And we all know cows are worth far more than goats!
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we'll have to leave the choice to her


Edited on Mon Jul-25-05 11:53 AM by ScamUSA.Com

be nice if our mating rituals were so easy

then again i'm not rich. I have no livestock resources but 1 dog and 2 cats.

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That is cute.It must be a very high offer in their culture...

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All Bolding in those quotes are mine.

I find it very depressing that not only is this viewed as "cute" but that a certain member wishes that our mating rituals were so 'easy'.

Oh yes, ladies. We know that Chelsea Clinton is worth 60 farm animals. That is her worth in this world. Not just in that culture, but in this world.

I'm sure the majority of us wouldn't be worth an old swayback horse with a broken leg and funky teeth.

The fact that this is cute and acceptable and funny is sickening. Fucking SICKENING.

Ladies, this is what it's all about. We're not even the SAME as livestock--we're lower than livestock. We're worth livestock. We are livestock.

[noamnety]

1. Ironically

The freepers have almost an identical thread with identical replies today.

[Heddi]

2. It's stops being ironic when it becomes normal.

I'd expect freepers to have this thread up
and, over the past few weeks, the fact that the responses are pretty much the same doesn't even begin to surprise me. Three weeks ago, maybe. Today, not in the least.

I was going to say that we have become what we profess to hate. But we haven't become it. We always were it. The prediliction is just showing itself to the surface more openly these days. Those men can go about their lives, convincing themselves that "I'M PROGRESSIVE because I don't pinch the assees of my secretaries ANYMORE" and still think it's peachy keen that a woman's love and marriage can be bought with a few head of cattle and goats. And that's great, because that's all she's worth anyways (if even that)

[efhmc]

3. I wonder what those idiots think THEY are worth. Wait, I can

answer that one.

[ismnotwasm]

4. I remember this old Starsky and Hutch episode

When was that show, the 70's? Anyway, one of those guys slapped the ass of the women police officer, I think she may have just delivered coffee to someone, not sure, but I distinctly remember the ass slapping. She just kind of kind of giggled and walked out of the scene. It's that kind of mentallity, it's been repressed, from hard work by feminists but it's still very much there. I like humor as much as anybody, but to try to pretend sexism isn't everywhere, is like saying racism doesn't exist anymore. See, it's sexism, not sexwasm. A lot of folks aren't getting it, and many of our young women have no idea WHY becoming a firefighter or such is even an option. They're not being taught history. And when we speak up, we get told to lighten up.

[MuseRider]

5. There are just no words

that can describe how angry I am getting about all of this. I can't have a sense of humor about any of it anymore. I used to be able to laugh and then drive home a point and not seem shrill and angry but I am soooo past that now.

I grew up in a family that thought that way and it took me years, YEARS to get over that. I can't and will never go back to the way it feels to be thought of that way.

I feel like a worthless feminist because I just simply can't be rational about all of this. It cuts to close for me. I am glad for this little space with all of you. You teach me and fill me with pride but I am worthless in this fight. Tears come and I am not sad, just angry tears. God I hate to feel this way. It seems their "fun" is more important to them than the fact that they hurt people with what they say. How can you fight that?

[Heddi]

6. In the last few weeks, I've wondered if it's even a fightable war

I don't know that you CAN fight it and be any more successful than boxing at shadows.

In the last 2 to 3 weeks, the WOMENS ISSUES have been on the front page of the main DU forums for all to see. We've put our issues out there. We've aired our greivances. We've let our feelings be known.

And yet still there is the contingent that finds it hillarious that:

1) A man asks another man if he can marry his daughter (note: the daughter in question was never asked by the would-be husband. That means her feelings regarding the marriage are inconsequential and unncessary)

2) The man then offers the father 40 cows and 20 goats to compensate for the loss of his daughter (note: that implies that the daughter is an object to be bought and sold. Bought by the would be husband, sold by the father. Only sold, mind you, if the price is right. She is property)

That same contingent then has a betting war amongst themselves about how many livestock THEY would offer for her hand in marriage. One even laments that our dating system (in the US, or Western World, I suppose) isn't so 'easy'

That would imply that he, too, sees women as nothing more than property. As something to be bought and sold and haggled over. As something that is the equivlant of 20 goats and 40 cattle. Even if the asking price was $34 Million US Dollars, the fact is that no woman should be "bought" or "sold" or have a price put on her for the privelge of marriage.

That poster also seems to long for a time where a woman had no option to refuse marriage. She wasn't even given the option to marry or not. The deal was made by her current possessor--her father. HE made the decision based on the would-be husband's financial offer, and the status of his family and wealth.

Her opinions are nothing in the situation. She is nothing more than a commodity to be parsed around from one male to the next. Her only worth is tied to her looks, and her breeding ability. Her value is found not in the person that she is, but the amount of livestock willing to be traded for her.

I should ammend my thoughts--she's not being bought, she's being TRADED, which I think is even more insulting than being bought. At least if you're bought, someone is offering a premium for you (even though I still find the thought sickening). Instead, she's being traded for some farm animals.

That implies that the would-be husband is better off with her than the goats, but that the father's loss can be duley compensated with animals that produce milk and meat.

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These posters mean what they say. They talk the talk when it comes to going against GW. They're all up in arms for 2 posts if a woman is set on fire for being raped in Iran. But make no mistake---they would happily fall in line and offer as many goats as they could if that was the way things were done in this country. They don't find it abhorrent that it's being done--they find it abhorrent that THEY can't take part in it.

[MuseRider]

7. Heddi

you express yourself well.

I am tired, sad, angry but I do want to answer you.

I do not think we can win this fight. They have all the power and precious few of them will share it. Power seems to be a thing for the men. I don't pretend to understand it but have been a victim of it to the extent that I will no longer share any of the power I have managed to scrape up for myself. Perhaps that makes me more like them than I would like to imagine.

I don't know the answer but I do know that we, as women, must stand together or we are sunk. We can fight back if we don't care what the repercussions are. I am at that point but don't know what to do about it. I have channeled my energy elsewhere because I can't bear the way this is making me feel.

I hate to ceed any of this to the feminist men around. I do think they may be the answer, they must educate the other men if that is at all possible but I have major problems trusting any of them to actually do it without making it their issue leaving us set up for the same old fight all over again.

I am very new to the organized part of feminism. Perhaps all of this has been answered before.

If the beginning of this post sounded like I am giving up, far from it. I am just so confused by it all. I have never understood it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

8. As long as the feminist men educate other men instead of

tellng us how to be feminists, fine.

[undergroundpanther]

9. Who says shrill and angy is taboo?

Who's says its wrong to feel?

The men who "trade" women say being angry and shrill is taboo..Men who treat women as if they are worth less than livestock.Men would rather complain about angry shrill voices of woman's accusation than feel ashamed, change their beliefs and behaviors and have compassion for those they see as'less' and see THE traditions are products of inhumane bigotry and are wrong.

[MuseRider]

10. LOL Not I.

I did not mean to suggest that I thought that was wrong but I would say that I am very tired of having to resort to that to just keep from being "put in my place" or patted on the head like my Labrador and told not to worry I will be "taken care of". Frankly it stuns me that we still hear those things these days. I would rather not have to be angry and shrill but I am and will be because my outrage reached that level a long time ago and I see no reason for that to change. It is exhausting and disheartening, another good reason for this group. A refill is always a nice thing to have.