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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 01:23 PM
Original message
Men as pro-feminist role models
First, I want to express my excitement that this group now exists. Thank you to whomever was behind the push, and thank you to Skinner and gang. I anticipate that this will be a wonderfully safe place to engage in much needed conversations surrounding the important issue of female power and powerlessness in our societies.

As a white, heterosexual male, I have privileged access to the racist, misogynistic, homophobic discussions of my peers. Mind you, not all white, heterosexual males engage in these discussions, and I have been pleasantly surprised on a number of occasions at the high level of critical discussions by some of my fellow WHETEMs. It is fascinating to witness the assumptions of other WHETEMs that I will naturally wish to be a party to discussions that are debasing to women, lesbians, gay men, and non-whites. These assumptions are made by all types of WHETEMs regardless of social caste.

I contend that it is not only important to speak out AGAINST such mutterings, but also that it is important to speak out FOR women's issues when unprovoked. Clearly, one must practice anti-misogyny as one would practice anti-racism and anti-homophobia in the event that another WHETEM (or anyone else) begins negative conversations. Let's call that a no-brainier. I will assume that all of my progressive brothers would agree with that.

It is quite another thing to assume that we engage in proactive pro-feminist discussions with our WHETEM friends. I challenge us to start thinking about doing so. I will confess that I have normally not been proactive, but on the few occasions, the results have been outstanding.

Let me illustrate:

Two of my three daughters are out of school this summer, and as a father with the wonderful position of working out of the house, I have the opportunity to spend some time with them. Yesterday after lunch, I had the idea to take them to Lowe's, purchase various materials, and engage them in a little summertime civil engineering fun.

When we arrived home from Lowe's, the two girls from next door were invited to have fun with us, and their father (who is also an at-home worker) came outside to see what was going on.

I told him that it occurred to me that when I was about the same age as our daughters, I spent the summers building forts and tents and all kinds of things with the neighborhood boys. We never questioned whether we had the ability to build because we were never given the signals that we did not have that skill. So we built (poorly in most cases). I told him that it further occurred to me that my (and his) daughters never seem to feel comfortable building anything and have often asked us to build something for them. Research shows that girls have a lower sense of math self-efficacy and lower self-efficacy when it comes to building things. This would be understandable in light of the fact that our society still tells girls in an indirect manner that they aren't builders. Hence, we have a hard time getting women into engineering majors coming out of high school.

I told him that I thought it would be a great exercise to give materials to our girls and the license to build whatever they desired. I would help where they needed it (such as hammering posts into the ground), but they were responsible for their project and how it was to be built.

When the girls were given this offer, two seconds didn't elapse before all four of them were off and running. My neighbor was clearly stunned and wanted to come watch. He was immediately enlisted as a helper and given the task of holding up posts for the walls of the structure. I noticed that he was really getting into this and started asking questions of the girls that would help them DISCOVER some useful building techniques ("If you want to make a square, what are some of the ways that you can make sure that all of the sides are the same?", etc.)

I excused myself to answer some emails and after I was told by my youngest that, "You can leave now, Daddy!" Later my neighbor met me inside to debrief on the experience. He was clearly excited by the experience and said that he never thought about the fact that the girls never had the permission to build.

It began to rain and we looked outside to find four dry feet sticking out of a pretty good shelter.

The point of this long story is to illustrate how pro-feminist discussions can and should take place with other WHETEMs. Many times, the only discussions about issues surrounding feminist theory they get are when they are on the defensive. I need to realize the opportunities to do this and I challenge others to do the same.

As I end this post, it also occurs to me that this forum is a danger to my productivity! Back to work!

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Senior citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Standing ovation!

:bounce: :woohoo: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :woohoo: :bounce:

(Hmmmm....I just noticed the word "ovation"--I'll bet it has a good feminist derivation.)
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Well, I had to check it out!
Here is the etymology of ovation:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=o&p=9

ovation

1533, from L. ovationem (nom. ovatio) "a triumph, rejoicing," from ovare "exult, rejoice, triumph," probably imitative of a shout (cf. Gk. euazein "to utter cries of joy"). In Roman history, a lesser triumph, granted to a commander for achievements insufficient to entitle him to a triumph proper. Figurative sense of "burst of enthusiastic applause" is first attested 1831.


How about that? In Roman history, it is a lesser triumph...interesting, huh?

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pmbryant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks for the story
Good job and thanks for sharing your story.

:thumbsup:

Peter
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent
The statement you make about WHETEMs assuming one will want to partake in sexist/racist/homophobic discussions is spot bloody on. The number of times I have been in a situation where the guys around me are quite happily indulging in misogeny of the most blatant kind, and when you try and say something critical at them the response is usually : "what's your problem?" or "get a sense of humour" or whatnot, is striking. For example, I was discussing with a friend why it is that women consistently outperform men in high school but consistently do worse at university (in the UK), when another guy joined in to say : "Well, maybe they have just reached their natural limit and can handle complicated stuff". When I asked if he didn't think that was quite a sexist thing to say, he looked half hurt and half shocked that I would suggest such a thing...
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. The half-hurt look I have seen
I think that deep down, many WHETEMS (and HETEMS in general) realize they are being misogynistic, and when they are called on it, they are hurt and embarrassed.

We were taught by society that when we are embarrassed, we should lash out. This is where the comments such as, "Get a sense of humor...gee!" come from.

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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. That is one of the most
inspirational posts I have ever read on DU.
You so totally rock, SITB!

There will be equality in our future as long as children have fathers like you.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. You are kind, BMUS
I do think that we need many, many more fathers and brothers and teachers and grandfathers and uncles who are not afraid to look at these issues, examine their attitudes, and grow.

There is still a long way to go, but there is no way in hell that women will go it alone as long as their progressive brothers have their backs.

It is not just a woman's issue, it is humanity's issue and we are all hurt by the repercussions of misogyny.

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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Your account of
your neighbor's reaction illustrates that fact that unfortunately, many parents and society in general continue to remain unaware of the problem.
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valis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wonderfully pragmatic post! Way to go.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
12. What a wonderful post!
And what a wonderful Dad you are!


:applause:
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Kerrytravelers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
13. Very, very cool.
I am impressed.


I am so thankful I married a feminist man. Reading your post made me realize how lucky I am (and your family is very lucky, too) and what a powerful role model Mr. kt will be for our girls (if we have any) someday.
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
14. Your daughters are very lucky...
to have you for a dad. My dad was a lot like you in this regard so I can speak from personal experience. I was more likely than my younger brother to be the one outside helping my dad work on the car or build something. I have wonderful memories of being his helper on tons of projects. I know that it made me more confident in my ability to do anything. I know that your girls appreciate what you did now...but when they're grown and have an even broader perspective...they'll think you're even more wonderful. :)
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