Society's rituals for women--have you opted out of any...?

[bliss_eternal]

If I had my way at the time, I wouldn't have had a wedding. At least not the big event for other's benefit. Given that we started our marriage this way, we've (dh and I) decided to renew our vows in a way that means something to both of us.

I was recently informed that a co-worker of my husband's is having a baby shower. Forgive me if this sounds evil or bitchy, but I'm just not interested. I talk to the woman from time to time when I call my husband at work, and she happens to answer the phone. She's nice enough, but honestly I barely know her.

I don't feel this is a close, personal friend that I know well enough to be trapped in a room with a bunch of women I don't know--ooohing and aaahing over tiny, little items of clothing. Only to get the inevitable question--when are you guys going to....? :eyes: I feel this is a torture that should be at least reserved for someone you know a bit better.

Originally I was told we were attending a bbq. Ok, I like bbq--could be fun. Later dh comes home and tells me, the guys are playing poker and the girls are doing something else. Um, I don't know...what am I going to be expected to do? Then I find out they are having a baby and it's a shower just for the girls...:wtf:

Frankly, I'd rather play poker with the guys. :(

I enjoy spending time with women, women I KNOW and choose to be with, because I like them, we have something in common, have things to talk about, or we're getting to know each other, etc. I don't get people inviting you to do stuff like this when they barely know you or you them, know what I mean?

While I'm on the topic, why must the 'women' have the shower? They are BOTH having a child. The coolest shower I ever attended, both the parents to be were there and it was really fun! Dad seemed really excited to be included and to enjoy having a part in things. This whole, the woman has the child, gets the shower, cares for the child, assumes responsibility, etc., etc., etc...bleh. :puke:

I'm kind of tired, not in the greatest mood, and probably not making a lot of sense--so I'm sorry if this is just a long, vain rambling of sorts.

If you've ever opted out of some societal, female dictated ritual please share. Oh and why did you choose not to participate?

[Heddi]

1. Oh, tons

The whole "gaggle of girls" idea totally turns me off. Just the sterotypes, I guess, that so many women feel they have to partake in so that they can be seen as a functional member of soceity. The whole 20-girls-going-to-the-bathroom-together thing really puzzles me. I really don't like it when people are in the bathroom with me--stalled bathroom or not. I mean, I pee with other people there, but I'd prefer that my husband really be the only person who knows me personally enough to know how I pee, ya know??

I don't have alot of close female friends. Thankfully that means that the only wedding I've ever been to is my own, I've only been to one baby shower and that was when I went with a friend and didn't know I was going. I have no interest in those things. Also, none of my friends have ever been pregnant while I was around them, so I'm sure that has alot of bearing as well.

I don't "do shopping". I endure shopping. Shopping is like paying bills--an unavoidable reality. I make it as infrequent and hurried as I can.

I find that many women feel that they have to do the whole gammut of "female activities with other females" to be a REAL female in society. Scroo that shit.

Same with "girls night out"--bleh. Never done one of those either.

If I went out to bars with my female friends, I never participated in the "lets get drunk and make out with guys we dance with" either.

I don't know---I think I'm a social leper because I refuse to participate in these strange rituals. I don't enjoy the company of most people and am generally a private and solitary person. I enjoy my husband's company. He enjoys mine. Why do I need a "night off" from him, ya know? We have enough time apart as it is, and I never find that I"m spending "too much" time with him. I think that in and of itself makes me (and us) odd. I love my husband. I'm not tired of him. GO figure, right?

I'm not big on social gatherings involving large numbers of people to begin with. Double that if it's a gender-selective social gathering. I avoid the idea of "girlfriends" and (imo) stupid shit like that. Hey! Let's have a cooking party and watch Sex In The City, m'kay? We can give manicures and do facials and eat cookie dough ALL NIGHT LONG!!! Super!:puke:

[raccoon]

7. I could identify with a lot of things in your posting.

I've never had a lot of female friends.

I've never been to the bathroom with a cluster of women.

I'm pretty much a loner, sometimes more than I'd like to be.

I HATE to shop. I wish I could just get my clothes from mail-order places, but it jsut seems like it would be such a hassle to get the right size.

[bliss_eternal]

21. So did I--

but I'm the odd woman out here--I actually like to shop, just not as a group outing. LOL!

I've never had a lot of female friends either. There was a time I thought that was what I wanted.

When in high school, girls disliked me and didn't trust that my intentions were sincere. This was based on their perception of my looks. I had to be this way, because I looked a certain way. :shrug:

As I'm getting older, I'm learning that was less about me and more about female conditioning to think of other women as competition or a threat.

I'm thankful to know that now. When I see or hear women that behave that way or have those attitudes I go in the other direction. ;)

[Hello_Kitty]

8. I've gotten to where I just can't stand groups of people. Period.

I work with a bunch of guys and I hate hanging out with them, though I like most of them individually. Ditto with groups of women and mixed groups. There are different dynamics with each but the same underlying theme of competition. That's what I can't stand. Men try to outdo each other with their guy things. Women try to be the girliest and size each other up to see who's thinnest. It's tiresome and tedious. The only exception is when I socialize with fellow political activists, though some of them are annoyingly mainstream too. At least I know I'll have a good conversation about something relevant. Not nails, hair, weight, home decor, Brad-n-Jen-or-Angelina, or whatever passes for discourse among the vacuous twits of America.

[bliss_eternal]

20. The competition and the mindless conversations

are probably what I hated most about being left w/dh's former friend's wives. Conformist suburban housewives that thrived on doing what everyone else was doing. :scared:

Trying to engage those women in any sort of relevant conversation was an exercise in futility.

[StellaBlue]

25. I am a lot like you, sounds like

We're not alone!

[Warpy]

2. Ill health has always provided an excuse for me

to avoid weddings, showers, Tupperware parties, and all the other ties that bind slumburbia. I would think that anyone would be allowed to decline an invitation without such an excuse if they did so politely. After all, an invitation issued by someone you have met only over the telephone (and in her professional capacity) is really a naked appeal to a stranger for loot. Politely decline, citing other committments. She doesn't need to know the other committments are your ten unpainted toenails.

Do send a nice card when she gets married, though, or a small gift if your husband feels compelled to send one. The shower invitation is over the top, IMO.

[bliss_eternal]

19. Hi Warpy--

we've socialized with them (she and her husband) before. But not to the extent that I feel close to her or that we are more than acquantices, if that makes sense.

I appreciate your advice and WILL be taking it! LOL!

[cally]

3. Rituals fascinate me...especially female rituals

I actually enjoy the stupid games and the usually terrible food. It's a little window on our culture. Every demographic will have slight variations. Some will go out and cater with great food and some will serve the jello salad from my youth. I enjoy remembering that for millenial females would have similar rituals before weddings and births. (I debated becoming an anthropologist.) I tend to stay for a short time, though.

I avoid any of the female rituals that revolve around consumerism, makeup, drinking, or waxing. I just invent a previous obligation.

[bleedingheart]

4. I enjoy rituals as well...

my extended family still clings to a lot of our european traditions and it is always a great deal of fun to go to showers, parties...etc

[bliss_eternal]

18. I like your perspective on this cally--

We have something in common, as I briefly considered a medical anthropology career.

I know I could choose to participate and look at things from a 'study' standpoint. Perhaps with different circumstances I would (if I knew the people involved better).

You're right female rituals can be fascinating. :hi:

[cally]

26. Medical anthropology is fascinating

I agree with you that some of rituals relegating women to house parties and boring prattle irk me. I do try to intellectualize them if I'm irked and have to be there for whatever social obligation I'm feeling. Good luck. :hi:

[bleedingheart]

5. I don't mind the baby shower stuff ...

today we are having a baby shower for a male coworker's whose wife is expecting..

What I don't like are women who assume the "motherly" role in the office....the ones who end up organizing all kinds of little parties to entertain folks..."oh let's have a BBQ...now ladies who wants to bring the potato salad?" that shit I find annoying.

or the ones who create lists for cleaning the fridge...there is someone the company pays to do it but one of the "little den-mothers" decides she wants to do it...well have at it...I don't get paid to clean at work.

I went to school with men, I am in a male dominated profession and I find it very enjoyable to be out with the gals...it is a refreshing change...

[bliss_eternal]

17. Hi bleedingheart--nothing wrong with that

enjoying being out with the girls. If I had more girlfriends locally with shared interests, I would probably enjoy it more. I just hate forced bonding with people I don't know. The assumption of you're a girl, you'd love a baby shower--of course you would! :puke:

Oh and that motherly woman in the office--I know her. I can't tell you how many times I've worked with her. Isn't she the one that also 'collects money from everyone for so and so's surprise birthday gifts'? Hate her. LOL! :hi:

[bleedingheart]

22. the money collectors are annoying

I find that group of women think they are still in high school and they want to create a warm and fuzzy office and in an engineering company...that just doesn't float so well...

The thing I detest the most...is the "gossipy gal"...I forgot about that type...probably because I run from them...

We have one in our office who will stroll from office to office trying to find out information. I consistently shut my door because of it.

What is most entertaining about that sort is that they use gossip in their office politic games...and then when they get burned they get all upset about why it happened...well duh...starting rumors about another coworker is really dumb and repeating stories you hear third hand is really dumb too...

Now there are men who do gossip but it isn't as common but then again it just might be because of the industry I work in...

:hi:

[spooky3]

41. The gossips are all men at my workplace. I try to stay on

good terms with them by telling them it just stresses me out to think too much about ___ (whatever problem or person they are obsessing about du jour). Some of them thrive on the bad feelings and conflict.

[geniph]

34. Collecting money for office social events

Argh! You hit on one of my top pet peeves. I work in high tech. Most of the group is men. We got a new secretary a couple months ago. She keeps trying to organize us to decorate for every holiday. No. My office is for work, not for hanging crepe paper and crap. It is a place of business. Then she goes and buys cakes - which I do not eat - for people's birthdays and sends out a note that she'll be collecting $2 from everyone to cover the cost. No. I do not do compulsory socialization. Forget it. You think buying a cake is a good idea, then solicit the money ahead of time from those who wish to contribute. Find out how much you have, then spend that much. Don't spend $25 and then expect me to contribute. I f***ing hate that. And now she's trying to get us to do a "birthday list" and exchange names to give birthday gifts over the course of the year. For chrissake, lady, I WORK here. I don't come here to party and eat. STOP IT. Why is it always a woman that ends up doing this embarrassing shit and making me look like a total curmudgeon because I refuse to participate?

[Hello_Kitty]

6. If you go your husband should have to pay for the gift

It is, after all, his coworker and he wants to attend the bbq and enjoy the poker game while sticking you with shower duties. And then he still owes you a nice night out or something!

Whenever I get stuck at those things, which I find to be barf-errific displays of consumerism, I try to find the other woman (and there usually is one) who looks as uncomfortable as I am and engage her in conversation. Sometimes you find a kindred spirit. I can't think of a time I actively refused to attend a bridal or baby shower. Much as I loathe them, I usually like the person in whose honor it is or I for sure wouldn't be there.

[atommom]

9. I think almost all of these female rituals are barf-errific displays

of consumerism! (Wonderful phrase, BTW!) I did have a wedding (though I'd have preferred to elope), but I don't understand the shopping/buying/grooming activities that we're encouraged to participate in. I enjoy spending time with female friends, but when I attend activities involving groups of women I know less well, there is a definite June Cleaver vibe that I find a turn-off. It feels to me like pressure to conform, and since I'm not really interested in conforming, that just makes me crabby. Your mileage may vary. ;)

[bliss_eternal]

13. Hi cc--I'm not going...

My husband and I were having a discussion yesterday. In the throes of honesty (lol) I told him I was uncomfortable with it and didn't want to go. He was cool with it. He said he was also uncomfortable as he was only going to know the guy he works with, and wasn't looking forward to it, either. So, he seemed relieved I don't want to go. He'll get a gift to send.

They've invited us to stuff before. When we go, I've tried to get to know the woman better and it just didn't work out. English isn't her first language which isn't a problem for me. But when I try to talk with her she tends to abruptly cut me off mid-sentence, by just agreeing with me--no matter what I'm saying. :shrug: I've had esl friends and acquaintances before. Based on those relationships, I get the sense that she doesn't understand some of what I say--but doesn't want to seem like it. Maybe it's an issue for her, maybe not--I'm just guessing.

The big difference for me is that my prior esl friends were open to saying, "I don't understand you" or "what does this mean" --and we worked on communicating with each other. To the extent that they even taught me words and phrases of their language--which I enjoyed and appreciated. (I love language!) Pretending to understand someone by being rude and cutting them off doesn't do much to develop a relationship... Just makes me wonder why the hell you want me there to begin with? :banghead:

:hi:

[politicat]

10. Almost all of them....

Never had a bridal shower and have never gone to a baby shower (nearly all of my friends are without children intentionally). Our wedding was 4 guests, (two of whom were witnesses) and the three cats.

I hate shopping.

Girls' night out rarely works for me because most of my friends are bi-curious, and don't understand that I don't make passes at anyone -- I may be bisexual, but I'm also monogamous. So GNOs tend to be "let's get drunk and explore our inner lesbian" and they get annoyed when I don't want to play. So I don't go along when the thing is proposed.

[bliss_eternal]

16. I think I'm in the minority on the shopping issue

I don't care for grocery shopping, but love shopping for clothes, shoes, books, etc. But having been independent from a young age, it's nothing for me to go shopping alone. Other than the rare moments when it would be nice to have another opinion on how something looks, I enjoy it.

For a guy, my husband is a great shopper. He really likes it, which is rare so I don't mind shopping with him.

I'm sorry that your girlfriends get annoyed that you don't want to play their game for girls' night out. I can see why you wouldn't want to. Sorry they don't understand. :hi:

You are SO lucky to have never done a baby shower. Other than being an interesting study, sometimes--they can be pretty annoying.

[Katherine Brengle]

64. I haaaaate grocery shopping! But I love shopping for other things--

especially books--I am a total book junkie.

I hate shopping for clothes with female friends--you always have to answer "does this make me look fat?" and any number of other loaded questions. One of my very best friends has gained a lot of weight in the past couple of years and every time we go shopping for clothes, it's a nightmare. She doesn't like to shop at the same stores that I do (if I am not buying secondhand, I like H&M and Old Navy, and she thinks that these stores either don't have clothes that will fit her or if they do, they will look bad...) so I end up trailing along behind her to wherever she wants to go and not getting anything for myself...

I like clothes shopping with my husband--he has good taste. :)

[geniph]

35. Hey, politicat, I get that too

because I'm openly bisexual, some of my straight friends (not that I seem to have that many straight friends...all our friends are gay or bi or trans, it seems like) either are nervous that I'll make passes at them, are disappointed that I don't make passes at them, or else their husbands start making hints about getting to view performances. Um. No. In fact, FUCK no.

I don't go for girls for the benefit of the male viewing audience! Guys, you can blame straight porn for that - it's ruined it for you. I refuse to play with another female for a guy's viewing pleasure. Piss off.

[Hello_Kitty]

48. Ugh Ugh Ugh!!!

In the last decade I've noticed an upsurge in (what are most likely) straight women engaging in pseudo-lesbian acts for male viewing consumption in public and it's sickening. I love to dance but recently I've had to push more than one female friend (women I know to be straight BTW) off me as she tried to grind against me on the dancefloor. I'm like, honey, do your pole dancer audition if you want to but leave me the hell out of it. And I'm thinking, "What has gotten into her?". Well, you said it there. It's straight outta porn and that shit has been so infused into our culture that otherwise smart and rational women think they have to be sexxxy like that to get men to notice them. 'Cuz, you know, God FORBID you went somewhere and men didn't notice you!

**I actually have danced suggestively with other women and even kissed them during a period of man-appeasing sold-outness in my life several years ago that I'm ashamed to admit I went through and I felt like SUCH an idiot when I did it. Not sexy at all.

I'm straight and it annoys the shit out of me so I can only imagine how intolerable it must be to a bisexual or gay woman.

[geniph]

59. I won't even dance with another woman if there are guys watching

I'm that contrary about the whole subject. If I'm going to dance or otherwise enjoy myself with women, it's going to be without a male audience. The guys who want to watch hot bi babes can just go home and sign onto their porn sites and leave me the hell alone. I'm not into spectators. Ugh!

(Gotta admit that one of my great pleasures in life is knowing that people are watching me dance - not on a stage, just at a club. I have a style of dancing that probably should be done on tables, and I enjoy doing that. But I either do it with a male partner, by myself at clubs where that's not too weird, or with female partners ONLY at women's bars. Guys, your lame fucking porn ruined that for you in the real world. You have only your own crappy taste in porn to blame for that.)

[Nikia]

11. I don't like female centered events at my work

Men and women are fairly segregated where I work with most of the women having the same job. I don't have that job and am not around them most of the day. I don't really like being pressured into doing female only things that they "the women" have decided to do like have a female only gift exchange or potluck (which the men end up eating anyway).
I dislike being separated by gender at social events when I don't know the other women. There are certain circumstance where it isn't bad but in general I dislike it, especially in the couple of cases where the women are expected to help the hostess, even though they were invited too, while the men sit or do other leisure activities.

[bliss_eternal]

15. Hi Nikia--

that's exactly how I feel. I don't like being seperated by gender when I don't know the others I'm going to be with.

[Heddi]

12. Another thing I avoid

When I used to work in an office, there was a time when it seemed the company put fertility drugs in the water supply because there were SERIOUSLY about 10 women who got pregnant in a 1 year time frame. It was bizarre.

At any rate, once the babies were born, the women would naturally bring their babies around the office to show them off. I guess I don't really begrudge them for that. But what annoyed me was the sight of a baby would send everyone running from their desks to the new mother, leaving phones ringing and customers neglected. And they would look at the baby. and hold the baby. and coo the baby. and pass the baby around from one another for no less than 45 minutes to an hour. Again, I didn't mind that the mom was showing off the baby, but jeeze! You work here. You know when it's busy. Come during the time of day when the phones AREN'T ringing off the hook. Or at least if you HAVE to come during the busy time, don't hang around for a fucking hour.

I swear to god...you could hear the collective ovulation of office uteri when babies came through the door :eyes:

Of course, because I didn't jump out of my seat and trample the typing pool lady to get to the baby, I was the one stuck answering the phones and placating customers who are trying to place ads before deadlines. At the same time, I'd have 15 office mates hovering in my cubicle squeeing with joy and demanding to know just why in the hell I'm not over there holding the baby and remarking about its cuteness and milk smell....."Heather, Brenda brought in the Bayyybeee...don't you want to see the Bayybeee? Come on...hold the Bayyybeee....You look so natural holding the bayyyybeeee"

Yes. I have been told that I hold a baby in a natural way. I've often wondered how one can hold a baby in an unnatural way. Swing it by the ankles? Grasp the flesh on the neck between my teeth like my cat does? :shrug:

[bliss_eternal]

14. LMAO, Heddi!

Quote:
Heather, Brenda brought in the Bayyybeee...don't you want to see the Bayybeee? Come on...hold the Bayyybeee....You look so natural holding the bayyyybeeee"

Yes. I have been told that I hold a baby in a natural way. I've often wondered how one can hold a baby in an unnatural way. Swing it by the ankles? Grasp the flesh on the neck between my teeth like my cat does?

:rofl:

I temped in an office that always had children in and out of it. Talk about annoying! Don't get me wrong--I like kids, in some cases I love kids--just not at work. I was the receptionist, having to answer the phone while children played, cried, etc, etc. --not cool!

In addition to the way some women immediately talk down to you when they find out you don't have kids. As if. Excuse me, but I've been around babies and children since I was one myself. It was nothing for me to babysit three at a time, two toddlers and an infant. Don't treat me like some fuckin' alien that knows nothing about the mysterious world of children because one hasn't come out of my body, thank you very much! :grr::mad:

Oh and the next time I politely inquire about a child's age only to be told in months--I'm promptly giving the woman the finger and telling her I didn't give a shit anyway so save the condescending bullshit. :eyes:

[Heddi]

27. First day of school this quarter...

we meet our new teacher.

Bear in mind everyone has been in class with each other since September 2004.

So the teacher is asking us about ourselves and such, and there's a fair number of people who have children in my class.

"I'm Katie, and I have a daughter who is 47 months old"

"I'm June, and my son is 62 months old..."

I asked an equally cinical gal that sits next to me what the cut off was for aging-by-months. Five years? Ten years?

Is it somehow more cute or coquetish to give your child a month instead of a year? Isn't it EASIER to say "a year and a half" instead of doing some complicated math involving raising numbers and carrying the 0 to determine your child's age?

Hell...I'm thirty. I'll start refering to myself as a 360 years old.... :eyes:

[geniph]

60. Hey, I'm 558 months old!

Wonder if my mother still tells people my age in months? ;-)

[Hello_Kitty]

23. ROFLMFAO!!!

Best post of my day goes to you Heddi :thumbsup:

I think it's analogous to guys who act like horny trained apes when an attractive woman walks by, these women who ululate with bliss at the sight of an infant. Like what, you've never SEEN one before or something? I don't get it. Babies are totally unremarkable. They look and act pretty much the same. They don't start being cute and amusing until they're toddlers. They got nothin' on puppies, kitties, or just about any other baby animal in terms of awwww factor.

[Heddi]

28. Yeah. Babies!

I agree with you.

when they're fresh out of the oven, they look like little aliens. All grey and wrinkly and squinity.

Then they freshen up and get pink. Pink and fat. My husband is funny because he's completely grossed out by baby bubble butts and their fat legs. It's so funny. I don't know if grossed out is the right word. He just finds it...not cute, I guess.

I can't say I'm too fond of toddlers. That's when they get the permanently embedded dirt-n-kool-aid-smile. And really, I have found that toddlers have awful breath. I know they don't have teeth, or just milk teeth that will falll out anyway, but some on. Give that kid some freaking SCOPE or something. Their breath smells like hot garbage. My friend had a 2-year-old that was only potty trained in the tub. Meaning, she wouldn't take a poop in the toilet, she'd get in the tub and crap. Even if she was taking a bath, she'd lay an egg. I'm like "that's supposed to be cute?" and she (my friend) is like "Oh yeah. It's so funny. We're enjoying bath time and here comes her little brown surprise floating by" :wtf:

And I COMPLETELY agree with you about how people act around babies. You hit it on the head "Like what, you've never SEEN one before or something?" Yeah. I mean, they're not uncommon. There's quite a few of them around. I mean, we're not talking about Sacajawea Dollar Coins or a Van Gogh. They're BABIES. WE WERE ALL BABIES AT ONE TIME. Aye. The idolotry we assign to these squirmy wormies is beyond my comprehension.

I saw a 101 year old lady in the hospital the other day. No one gave a shit about her. But oh! HEre's the 3 year old and everyone is giving her popsickles and stickers...I'm like "Give the old lady a freaking sticker...she's earned it a bit more than the 3 year old who can't pronounce her "r's" correctly"

but then again, I'm cynical like that. Had they given the lady a sticker, I'd have found an issue with that. On purpose. Just to be me :D

[Hello_Kitty]

30. "What? Like getting old is, like, an accomplishment or something?"

Ha ha :rofl:

I'm a cynic, curmudgeon, and intractible misanthrope myself ;)

[Warpy]

36. Thanks, I thought I was the only one

who really doesn't like babies and toddlers. Oh, newborns aren't bad, just feed them, wipe them, and let them sleep. They are generally easy to please. However, just about the time eveybody else looks at them and their voices rise an octave and a half and they start talking baby talk at top volume, I just lose interest completely. Eeew, it's STICKY. Keep it away from me, willya?

However, I love mouthy school age kids and bratty teenagers. I find them fascinating to talk to. I get a bang out of how they look at life. Just when the baby crazed start to dislike kids, I'm the one who steps in to appreciate them.

[ScreamingMeemie]

45. Wow.

Just...really...wow.

[BlueIris]

24. I would have to really struggle to think of any "women's ritual"

I've actually participated in. I'm actually quite hostile toward the idea that human beings in the 21st century are "naturally" drawn toward ritual, and societies should promote certain kinds of so-called "rites of passage" or customs. One of the major joys of civilization is that the individual can survive as an individual. Rituals and rites of passage are not concepts I enjoy, especially considering how many people feel that all of us, particularly the females, "should" participate in them mandatorily. A lot of those, especially the mindless, pointless ones (weddings, baby showers, other nasty, sexist shit which exists primarily to serve consumerism) are too often just more tools through which Patriarchal influences oppress women by keeping them brainwashed by Patriarchal messages and cut off from themselves and each other.

[we can do it]

29. Yep and Glad for It

I am done with any shower that has ridiculous games - that's just about every shower.

NO FREAKING, WAY-OVERPRICED (candle, packaged food, tupperware, lingerie.....Whatever) Parties- invite your best friends over to buy absolute crap....we won't even get into the "$100 Farty-Bright" candle thingy that caught my brother's house on fire....

And could someone please explain why a bunch of women would congregate in the restroom- could it be the decor?

Why do women feel compelled to jump on the scale every time they pass it at the gym? Why do they pretend that they only eat a few tiny morsels when on a date?

Why do some women have to be totally "fake" they are so buried under their make-up/cosmetic surgeries, plastic-like hair, etc...hello, what is wrong with the "real you"?

I may be weird, but I don't care. I'd rather have a cup of good coffee or a beer with a couple of real friends, dig in my garden, play with my cats, watch a baseball game or go for a hike than any of the things "expected" of us.

[Heddi]

31. Oh. I HATE those sales schemes

fucking pyramid schemes.

This gal I go to school with is into Pampered Chef. And every. fucking. week. she has a pampered chef party. And every OTHER week she does Mary Kay.

She's all like "oh, come to my Pampered Chef party. You get a gift if you bring a friend, and NO, your husband doesn't count. This is for the "girls". And I"m making chicken enchaladas..."

get the fuck away from me. Seriously. I guess that Pampered Chef has some okay stuff, but I"m a real chef (by education & experience), and ain't no way I'm going to buy a heat-proof rubber spatula for $17. No. Way. Not when I can get it for A DOLLAR at Target.

A gal my mom used to work with was a pusher for that garbage decoratory crapola...the "magnolia" theme. The "ivy" theme. The "ivy AND magnolia" theme. It was all garish and cheap and would totally not look right on the panneled walls of our trailer.

My mom and I went just so we could nosh on the free food :evilgrin: But the women there...you'd have thought it was the second coming. What? They've never seen a sconce before (much less pronounced it!) or a swag? And SO ugly. Brass and burgundy and heavy and dark and the cheap-ass painting prints of country side with kitten with ball of twine while coquetish mouse secretly peeks from behind grandfather clock

:vomit:

I tend to avoid most things that involve people and things :D

[lukasahero]

32. Oh where to begin...?

Ok, first to the original question: I am decidely anti-social so while I attend these "rituals" (because I am a consumate New Englander and fear being impolite more than death itself - sorry), I always seem to find myself keeping company with a wall - which I am usually much more content with than were I to have to spend the time discussing babies, hair or makeup.

Reading this thread has been fun and the real reason I chimed in here is to relay some fun home decorating stories. (Trust me, this is not what you think it is.)

I am married to a wonderfully creative and design focused man. He and I have some rather interesting tastes when it comes to home decor. We have recently been finishing our dining and living rooms which sent us looking for curtains. Oh joy. (Did I mention I hate shopping with a passion?)

Let me tell you how much fun it is to walk into a curtain shop and have the women associates (and yes, they are all women) come running up to you to talk about curtains and be able to tell them to "Talk to him." It's sort of like the reverse of car shopping. :) Although, the women fawn all over him like he's some kind of god for simply having an interest in what the place he lives in day after day looks like. (Rather different than the female car buying experience...)

Then we enjoy watching their heads explode as we discuss (as in *both* of us share ideas) and pull together pieces that they just would never have imagined. Microsuede panels for me, tea-stained delicate floral scarf for him - combine the two? Looks beyond gorgeous and not a one of these "design" experts even understood what we were asking to see... :eyes: (And you just should have seen the look on the face of the lady when we asked the price of the iron dragon tie backs! Priceless! LOL.)

[bliss_eternal]

38. You and your husband probably

confused and obliterated their world view for at least a few days...lol! Good job! :rofl:

[geniph]

33. I actually can't think of any female rituals I DO participate in

I don't go to the bathroom with other women, I don't go to baby showers (I have very little interest in babies), I didn't have a ceremony either time I got married, I don't bring food to potlucks at work (I don't eat at them, either), I don't do all the "holiday" rituals like baking (I don't cook, my husband does), etc., etc. I can't think of anything I do in a group of exclusively women. My mammograms, I guess. But my husband comes with me.

And I agree, baby showers should be for both parents. I've never understood the single-gender "shower" rituals, for weddings or for babies.

On edit - I don't actually understand single-gender rituals for adults. I understand them for adolescents, but why do adults need to separate by gender to have a good time? Beats the shit outta me.

[bliss_eternal]

37. I wonder if adults

just do this because it's ALWAYS been done this way, or because they sincerely want to? When I think of your typical 'follower' type, it seems it would never occur to them that there is another option of how to do a shower or anything else. :shrug: But like you--I don't understand the single gender rituals either. I shun them at every opportunity.

I absolutely HATED my bridal shower. My mil told me how many people I could invite. Excuse me, isn't it supposed to be MY SHOWER?! Of course, her guests, friends, associates, etc. outnumbered mine, and I didn't know any of them. She (as usual) didn't bother finding out what I might like. She gave it at a fru-fru-chi-chi, dainty, little, allegedly posh place for women--a tea house. SO fuckin' obnoxious--little finger sandwiches, tea pots at the tables the whole thing :eyes:. I suppose nice for someone that's into that sort of thing--but it wasn't me by a long shot!

Gawd, I really do hate that woman. So glad dh has nothing to do with them anymore. THAT act on his part, has been the lightening of the load of my life! :D

[PassingFair]

39. Holy Cow! You women sound more like misogynists than feminists!

I passed on the engagement ring because I didn't want to create another debt for us to pay, but I think that the rituals have a place in our lives. Many of you sound like you dislike women!

What's with the anti-child attitude? It would be a much healthier world if women could incorporate childrearing with work. After all, over 80% of us will reproduce.

Perhaps we should be shipped off to camps to raise the children. Or better yet, just ship the kids off so that we can go back to work immediately! WTF?

I'm not in the best of moods today, so please forgive the crustiness.

This thread just seemed to be in the wrong room.

[lukasahero]

40. "What's with the anti-child attitude?"

The anti-child attitude is what some of us women feel. Not all women want (or particularly like) children - sorry - and we face daily the assumption that we are not "real" women because we will never reproduce. I can attest to having babies thrust at me (and NOT my husband) simply because I am a woman and am SUPPOSED to like babies. I do not. I do not care one way or the other if women do, I am just tired of the constant assault on my "womanhood" because I don't.

I considered alerting on this post but thought I could better serve the forum by explaining why some of us prefer not to have to deal with the assumptions that we, as women, are expected to like everything that has long been associated with women's lives and their place in the world.

I do agree that at times it sounds misogynistic because we are rebelling against the feminine stereotypes but your post is exactly what we face every day because we don't particularly like some of these rituals that are the domain of women. I don't think many here dislike women - I think they are tired of being judged by stereotyped standards of what a woman is.

To re-quote the old adage "feminism is the radical idea that women are people too." As "people", (as opposed to "women"), shouldn't we have the choice as to whether or not we like certain things? Shouldn't we be able to choose not to attend events that we personally don't like without having our womanhood and feminity questioned?

Some of us don't care too much for babies but your post is exactly what we face if we dare mention that fact to anyone. Some of us are tired of facing that criticism every day and being expected to attend (and LIKE IT DAMMIT!) events that we don't like simply because we are women. And sometimes that means not having a lot of patience left over for the people that continually look at us cross-eyed when what we like differs from the norm. You are probably seeing the end of that patience here in these posts.

If you venture over to the "Woman's World" group, you can look for a thread called something like "In what ways are you male?". There you will find a lengthy diatribe by me suggesting that by holding ourselves up so highly as being "male" that we are in fact denigrating the female, so I do get what you're saying. However, there are times when what we are still expected to do just because we are female is far too pre-feminism and needs to be railed against.

When we treat brides-to-be and grooms-to-be and mothers-to-be and fathers-to-be as somehow different and separate, then we do not treat women and men as equals. There is a lot of wisdom about how to treat and understand women as individuals with different likes and dislikes, different wants and needs that can be gleaned from this thread. To accuse everyone who posted here as being misogynistic is rather missing the point.

[PassingFair]

42. I wasn't trying to put any one down...

I was genuinely surprised at the tenor of the posts!

I am a feminist with children. I don't think I should have to leave them at home because some
people might resent them.

I don't think my post merited an alert, but do what you want!

I believe that life sans children is at LEAST as rewarding as "motherhood". And is as valid a choice as motherhood or adoption or WHATEVER!

After all, before I had children, I DIDN'T have children.

I was just surprised at the venom.

[ScreamingMeemie]

44. Your post didn't merit an alert. I found it to be rather truthful. I see

this thread as just as bad as fundies tsk tsking...

Wanna have a "ritual"? Go for it. Don't wanna? Don't. And I cannot remember a time when I ever had a baby "thrust" at me. Most moms are now so into hygiene and baby theft fears that one barely gets to gaze upon the kid. :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

43. Many times you place the feeling of not being "real" on yourself.

I have to agree with PassingFair. In reading this thread, I see a whole bunch of personal issues being treated as if we all suffer from them...

I have never had a baby "thrust" at me...before or after my children. My husband has, believe it or not.

I also don't think PassingFair accused everyone of being mysogonistic...But I do feel the anger and badly covered self doubts seething threw it...here in this thread.

After reading through this thread, I have to say, I've never had any of these experiences. I had an engagement ring just because MrG bought me one. We got married by a justice of the peace because we wanted to, and I didn't want a big wedding. But, if a woman wants to get all giddy about it and her friends want to fawn over her, while the man is treated somewhat differently by his friends and acquaintances...I'm not going to get all pissy about it. I don't see them as "rituals" at all..I never have.

Why do we always "split hairs" over the small stuff?

[lukasahero]

46. "I also don't think PassingFair accused everyone of being mysogonistic"

The subject of her post was "You women sound more like misogynists" - if the comment wasn't directed at "everyone", then perhaps a "some of you..." might have made that more clear?

I'm glad you've never had a baby thrust at you. However, could it be that you go to them yourself because you like babies and therefore don't find yourself in that position? I don't go up to the babies when co-workers bring them into the office but they are often brought to me. Do you not get them "thrust" at you because you're already there showing an interest in them? Trust me, I get them thrust at me - "don't you want to hold the baby?", "oh you have to come see the baby!", "can you hold the baby while I get something to eat?" You have not experienced that. I routinely do. At least I can come up with an explanation as to why perhaps your reality differs from mine and acknowledge it as reality. Could you please accept that my reality is valid as well?

Re: splitting hairs over the small stuff, Walmart still pays men more than women because "they have to support a family." There has been discussion on this board (see the Women's Rights Forum) where both men and women consider men to be a better employee candidate because they will not leave the job to get pregnant and raise a family, will work longer hours because they don't have to get home to the kids, will be more dedicated to the job because their loyalty isn't split between the employer and their children. Is it splitting hairs over small stuff for me who does not have or want children to voice concern over how those attitudes affect my career and employment opportunities?

It's not women or babies that we are railing against here - it is the stereotypes that are associated with women and how those stereotypes affect those of us who are women who don't fit the darn stereotypes. We are marketed to in a way that may not appeal to us because we are "women", not individuals. We are directed in our education in a way that may or may not fit our needs and goals because we are "women", not individuals. And we are looked at and treated by employers in ways that may or may not limit our opportunities because we are "women", not individuals.

You think it's small stuff. I think it's my life.

(BTW - nice dig at our "personal issues" as the cause for our concerns/feelings/experiences. It couldn't possibly be that our experiences are actually valid - it must be our own "personal issues" and "badly covered self-doubts" that form our opinions. There are lots of people on this board I expect that from. I didn't expect it from you.)

[ScreamingMeemie]

47. "Sound Like mysogonists" is not the same as accusing one of

"being mysogonistic".

It wasn't a dig at "personal issues". Personal issues are valid. When I had two miscarriages in a row I hated all things baby and refused to be around babies.

You have completely missed my point and PassingFair's point. I don't fight stereotypes by making fun of them is all I am saying. Walmart paying men more isn't splitting hairs over small stuff, and I don't believe I said that. I'm talking about the little things like showers, weddings etc. We as women are threatened by far worse i.e. Walmart, bad doctors who think it's all in our heads, even on the high school level. (ex. My daughter being told she couldn't be in accelerated algebra even though she had a top grade because the boys in it "think differently" than she does and are therefore better prepared). I am all for fighting that stuff. I never showed much interest in any babies but my own, and my friends and family's because that's just a nice way to be. The ritual/traditional stereotypes have just never bothered me to the point that I could be cruel about them. When my husband and I were planning our wedding-10 people, JofP, and then we went to Niagara, the people who mattered didn't stereotype me. They knew what I wanted, were happy for me, and we got married. My neighbor asked me,"Why no shower?" and I said,"I'm not that kind of girl." End of issue for me.

I'm sorry if you misunderstood me, but I still see PassingFair's point. :( Sorry we can't disagree on this.

[lukasahero]

49. "Sorry we can't disagree on this."

On the contrary, I think we obviously can and do disagree on this. Am I missing something?

BTW, if you re-read my first post again, you will see that I did acknowledge and "get" Passing Fair's point.

[ScreamingMeemie]

51. I guess I meant disagree without the personal stuff.

I.E. Not expecting this from me. It was just the feeling I got from reading this thread is all. It is one of the things that makes me very loathe to post an opinion on DU. All of a sudden I am somehow not a good person for holding a differing viewpoint.

I did see where you agreed with her...in words, btw.

That's all I am saying.

I may disagree with you on something, but it's not going to color my whole image of you if we have agreed upon other things in the past.

I think, basically, the three of us hold the same opinions. My concern was with the acidic tone to some of the posts. Some of them struck me as completely overboard...as in, let's throw all babies off the bridge.

[Heddi]

53. Yeah. Throw babies off the bridge

because some of us are sick and fucking tired of being treated like we're mutants because we have no desire to have children. And we have no desire to participate in empty rituals that mean nothing in our lives. That we don't wish to participate in women-centered activities that are created JUST for women to participate in. I mean, I guess I didn't know that I was advocating infantacide by not enjoying going to baby showers. Silly me.

It always floors me how people confuse "I don't like being around children" with "I hate children and wish they didn't exist". I don't know if you do or don't have children, but I can tell you that being 30, being married, and being child-free allows people to feel that they have the OBLIGATION to remind my husband and I that we should have kids. We'd be good with kids> Why don't we have kids. When are we going to have kids. That we're bad children for not giving our parents grandkids. That we're selfish. That we're greedy. That no one will take care of us. That we don't know love. That we don't know responsibility. That we're not full adults until we have kids. That we'll never know love until we have kids, etc etc etc.

It's endless. And I'm sorry that I know there are other women in this forum that are frustrated with the whole child-pressure part of society as well as me. And I"m sorry if I felt that I could voice my opnion regarding my personal dislike of children with other like-minded people without being accused of being a child-hater. Without being told that the 'acidic tone' of posts suggested that we wanted to kill babies. :eyes:

In case you've not picked up on it, This is a rant-based thread. It's SPECIFICALLY designed to allow people to vent their frustrations. That means that some situations may be exaggerated while others are muted. I guess I'm some infant-eating demon because I find most posts in the thread funny. I understand the sentiment. Society is frustrating. People expect me to act or do certain things because I'm a woman. I don't enjoy bridal showers. I don't like baby showers. I didn't know such simple "like or dislike" could cause me (and others) to be labeled a misogynist, woman-hater, or baby hater. But it has...I guess I should revel in it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. And I guess I'm sorry I clicked on this thread.

I've got no problem with people making the decision to have or not have kids. I never felt pressure...I guess I was lucky. I think this thread went far beyond the choice not to have children. And I don't believe I called you a baby hater.

Again, I will say, I have never had a tradition pushed upon me...not to the extent witnessed here...and I guess I and others like me, are not allowed a voice...unless we are in complete agreement with your opinion.


Have a nice weekend.

[lukasahero]

55. Re: the personal stuff

I apologize for saying I didn't expect such stereotypes from you. Of course, I'm not sure that's a compliment either.

MrsG, I know your posts, I've read your words and look forward to reading your opinions as a rule. The part that I did not like or expect from you was the insinuation that because some of us hold a different opinion about babies and "girlie" traditions, that we must somehow have "personal issues" and are voicing our opinions because of "badly covered self-doubts" as if to suggest we doubt our decisions not to want, have or particularly like babies.

I did not mean to suggest you weren't a good person - I meant to suggest that I was surprised that you would dismiss the opinions of others as being their own personal issues rather than listening to their frustrations and perhaps trying to understand them. If I made you feel personally put down, it was not my intent. When I said I didn't expect this from you it is only because I don't know you to be the type of person who would so quickly invalidate another's experience. That part of it should be taken as a compliment.

I'm 43 years old. I am completely comfortable with my conscious decision not to have children. I harbor no self-doubts in this area.

I took umbridge in the original post with the rather absurb accusation that because we don't like babies means we somehow want to send mothers to concentration camps - good god is that something we joke about these days? I don't agree with you, or the original post, that commiserating about what it's like to live in a world of baby-love expectations is the equivalent of wanting to lock mothers away in concentration camps. To be realistic, in this particularly moment in time, it is far more likely that we, the non-child-bearing women, will be the ones heading towards the camps. I'm sure you've read "The Handmaids Tale". If not, may I recommend it?

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. Funnily enough...PassingFair and I have both read and thoroughly

agree with you on "The Handmaid's Tale". If you've read my posts, you'll see I recommend it to people often. Those who think we should just jettison off the issues of women's rights in order to be elected.

A person can not like babies, and I'm fine with it. I, myself, am not a big fan of children in their infancy. What struck me as somewhat odd (and it wasn't a post of yours) was the attention in detail, to the habits of small children. I, as a mother, am not that in tune to kids. Every aspect was covered. It just stunned me.

It's the old lopsided argument, where each side employs the tactics that they abhore so much in the other side.

That said, I will fight for the rights of women (all of us) everywhere to decide exactly, when, if, where or how we choose or not choose to have children. I'm just not going to poke fun or make decidedly cruel comments about either side.

I spoke from my personal experience...my own issues that I had with childbirth when posting--which I had never had before the moment I miscarried...even though I chose not to have kids at that time. I put the label of not being a real woman upon myself. I would be the same woman whether or not I chose to, or was able to, have kids. I put the label of failure on myself when I again miscarried (an unexpected pregnancy because I wanted no more children) after the birth of my son. I also don't expect you to fawn over my children. I do enough of that myself. And you can damned well bet I'm out there fighting for my daughter's right to live her life the way she wishes. It is our job, as a society, to bolster our young women so that they have no need to fight these battles in the future.

I wish you a good evening.

[geniph]

61. MrsG, I TOTALLY do not see where you're getting that

From those of us saying we're personally uncomfortable with being expected to hold babies or do not wish to become mothers ourselves, you've somehow jumped to "throw all babies off the bridge." I have not seen anything anywhere remotely resembling that, and if you're getting that from something someone here said, I wish you'd point it out.

I have a lot of friends who don't like cats, don't want to be around mine, and don't want them in their laps. I neither argue with them nor suspect them of being cat-killers. It's the same with children. Some of us would just as soon not have children, and don't particularly want them in our place of business. I don't recall any of us saying that means we never ever want to see another child in our lives.

I work for a school district. I expect there to be children brought into the office occasionally. I'll make the usual polite noises when someone brings their children by. But I won't watch them, entertain them, hold them, and I absolutely do not want them running loose and making noise in my office. I don't want ANYONE running around and making noise in the office. I object when adults do it too, or if people bring in dogs that bark and run loose (I don't mind dogs in the office if they're reasonably quiet and stay put - same with kids).

Hyperbole doesn't help any of us to connect better with one another, and of all people, I'm really surprised to see you using it.

[Katherine Brengle]

63. I liked this line, but there's more...

"When we treat brides-to-be and grooms-to-be and mothers-to-be and fathers-to-be as somehow different and separate, then we do not treat women and men as equals."

Also, we have a tendency as a society to separate these people (parents to be in particular) from the mainstream of people, as if what they are going through is in some way operating outside of the normal social order.

Doesn't it make more sense to consider these as integral to the norm? For, if it were not for these, we would not be.

(I agree that the need to see women as just people is serious and the choice to reproduce or not should not be considered abnormal--hell, I never planned on doing it myself, to tell the truth.)

[Heddi]

52. Wow!

Sorry that you have difficulty understanding that not everyone likes children. That doesn't make me anti child. It makes me just not like children.

I thought that this was one forum I could enjoy being "anti-child" and not be chastized for it. Yet, here in the feminists forum, we're called "misogynists" because *gasp* some people don't like children, and don't like the societal dictation of "female centered" activities that we should participate in SOLELY because we're female.

Not enjoying going to wedding showers makes me a misogynist? Not wanting to participate in empty, meaningless social activities makes me hate women?

Silly me.

And I"m sure the "ship us off to work camps" was directed towards me because I made the post about women who bring their children to work after they've had children. If you read my post carefully, you'll see that I have no issue with women (or men) bringing their childen to the office. What I *DO* have an issue with is mom/dad bringing kids in and then eating up an hour or more while parading the kid around. SOMEONE has to do the work while the rest of the department is oooh'ing and aaah'ing over a baby. And I"m sorry that I"m a bit bitter that generally *I* am the one who has to pick up the slack for everyone. I guess I tend to value my job and my customers (who make my job possible). And I even made the suggestion that mom & dad, since they work at the company and know the busy times, busy days, etc, make a CONSCIOUS EFFORT to not bring the kiddo's around during the busiest time, or busiest day, or whatever.

I mean, here's an example:

The office I worked in had 15 people in the office. Woman comes in with new baby. Fourteen of 15 people from office are standing around for an hour yapping with her. The only person who WASN'T was me. Why? Because I was busy dealing with the shit they left floating on their desk when the baby came in. I find it hard to believe that it was just BEYOND her comprehension to see that out of an office of 15, 14 of them were around her. For an hour. Yapping. I mean, I think that's kind of rude to assume that every aspect of business will and should come to a halt because she wants to show off her kid.

I'm not anti-child.I'm not anti-woman. I'm anti-rude people who feel the world revolves around them (child or not, married or not, etc). I'm sorry that because I have made a choice in my life to not participate in meaningless societal rituals you see that as being anti-woman or anti-child.

Is my husband anti-male becase he's not into sports and doesn't do the Sunday Football Male ritual? Are we anti-married-couple because we don't go apeshit on our anniversary and spend inordinate amounts of money on meaningless things? Are we anti-family because we don't buy into the bullshit Hallmark Holiday scheme and buy a fucking greeting card everytime someone farts sideways?

I didn't know not participating in anything made me anti-anything.

I don't recall a *SINGLE* post in this thread that said we should ban such activities, or prohibit others from participating in them.

My god. Time to go flog myself for not being a "good enough" feminist. Hell, I guess I need to go have a fucking kid, lest I come across as even more anti-woman and anti-child :eyes: God forbid someone have a difference of opinion than you :eyes:

[lukasahero]

56. Spot on with the "anti-male" men who don't like football analogy

I thought of this one today while I was away from the computer myself.

I guess that's another luxury men are allowed that women are not. A guy who doesn't like "macho" bullshit? No problem. A woman who doesn't like "girlie" things? Apparently there's a problem. Not to mention, a woman who doesn't like macho bullshit is also considered "anti-male". We just get it coming and going. Of course, women are supposed to be accomodating and self-sacrificing so maybe that's why we run into trouble when offering an opinion that doesn't fit the stereotype.

[ismnotwasm]

50. All evil medieval ritual leftovers

Or something-- the powers that be sent to torture me, When there is absolutely NO WAY I can get out of going to a wedding, a baby shower, or non female specific, a funeral, god I hate them all. I'm 45 goddam years old and nave never attending anything called "girls night out" Even when I was a girl.
Shopping-- why is that a "women's" thing? Men shop. Just for different shit. Sometimes for different shit. Don't fool yourselves.

One the other hand, baby showers are a nice way to get a young couple stuff they need, it's hard starting out with a new baby. But you can always send a gift.

Why? You go, out of sense of family or friend obligation which would be the only reason for in the first place, for me it would have to be a relative. You don't know half the people. I don't like a whole lot of people around in the first place although I can take them in small groups. They do stupid stereotypically patriarchal-inspired activities that make me almost lose the only good thing about those things-- the food. Sometimes the food is good.
Pink for girls. Blue for boys. Cute little games. Blech. Lets start the social conditioning in the womb, shall we? And you can't SAY anything, well I do, but I stay polite. (Hey, next time I get invited to one, I'll suggest a poker game, with the pot going to the baby's college fund)
My son and his girlfriend, thank all the gods, had a co-ed baby shower. It was much easier to take.

And BTW I think it's something about being a grandma times two, but I love babies. I used to not babies or little kids at all.I am just recently getting over my extreme dislike of teenagers. Had a baby--liked my own. As they grew, I started liking little kids. When I had 4 teen and pre-teenagers in the house, I think I lost it. But It's all good now.

[bliss_eternal]

58. Yes, coed showers are much easier--

at least on me, I can't speak for anyone else of course. My husband attended with me, and he commented on how nice it was to not feel 'banished' from my company for an entire afternoon.

Regarding my original post, I disliked being told I was going to attend something, that the hosts attempted to disguise as something else. I was looking forward to a bbq or perhaps a game of poker. But being told I have to sit in a room with people I don't know, while my husband is doing something I'd rather do--no thanks.

Thanks to all that validated my feelings about this. It's nice to feel I'm not being unreasonable about this. It does seem odd that I was invited at all,given I don't know the mother to be very well--but as another poster stated, could be a thinly veiled bid for a gift. :shrug:

Thanks again for all the responses!

[Katherine Brengle]

62. Ick on baby showers, lol--at least the way they are usually done--

Mine was very small, just family, and my husband was there as well.

I think these came into being just so pregnant women could get the things they needed for their new babies--there is nothing inherently wrong with this, of course, but if someone you don't know very well and aren't close with invites you to theirs, they are only in it for the presents.

Same goes for weddings--there were about 35 people at my wedding, maybe less, and it was still agonizing, lol.