Why are you a feminist?

[marions ghost]

Obviously this is just an invitation to personal reflections you might want to share.

I became an instant feminist before I ever heard the word. I was about 11-12. I had grown up in a family with a lot of girls, a sweet "Mr. Rogers" dad and a dynamic self-confident mother. I never felt sexual discrimination as a young child. My parents didn't give lessons in "how girls are" or "how boys are."

Anyway I went to play with my best girlfriend (age 12)and her same-age cousin, a boy. We were playing ping-pong rounds and I was beating them both that day (usually it was more even between my friend and me). All of a sudden the boy ran away crying and wouldn't come back. I was bewildered. My more worldly and sophisticated friend took me aside and explained how I had to start losing if we were playing with boys. They always have to win. She said this as though it was the big secret that you have to get familiar with if you're ever going to be a successful woman. Talk about wanting to cry.... But this was an important epiphany. Although I didn't say it to my friend at the time, to myself I said loudly: "THIS is crap!"

[BlueIris]

1. Don't have time for lengthy personal reflection and sharing today,

but basically, at a young age, (8, 9, 10, I don't precisely recall) I realized that there was absolutely no good fucking reason whatsoever in this universe for girls to be less equal to boys. Thankfully, my mother was a huge feminist, and we had the home library to prove it. My identity as a feminist solidified and grew from there, but it isn't a happy story. A large portion of my emotional energy is drained everyday by looking at how much inequity still exists and is, quite frankly, killing everything good in the world.

[beam me up scottie]

2. When I was told

I couldn't come into the tree-house that I helped to build, because I was a girl.
I was 7 or 8. I remember how stunned I was.
I did not understand why I wasn't as good as them.
I still don't but I do understand why they feel superior.

[MuseRider]

3. Long answer shortened.

Out of self defense. I grew up in a family where my mother HATED other women and always told me that she hated me because I was a girl. I had two brothers and my family revolved around sports for BOYS. My oldest, younger brother was not into it so at least I had a friend but he actually caught the worst of it all. I was never allowed out to play until all of my brothers laundry was washed, ironed and put away and their lunches and my fathers lunches packed and I had helped with dinner, dishes and all the housework. I actually had no childhood, it was indentured servitude(so I would make some man a good little wife, I won't tell you anything else about what that training entailed). This was the mid 50's and 60's so there were many reasons to feel held back as a female. I never understood why it was that way and it took me years to get over it but I did and I am here and I will never go back. I think this may be one of my biggest worries with this administration. I will never go back, I would take a bullet before I ever let anyone put me in that kind of place again.

I would also like to say that I would take that same bullet for all of you. I usually stay out of these gender wars, it just brings up too many things. I hope it is safer in here in this forum because this is so important. I am rarely able to deal with the misogyny issues we see from time to time even here.

[efhmc]

4. That, my dear, is, was and always will be child abuse of the worse

sort. I am so happy that you survived and are here to spread the word so maybe it will not happen again. Many men and some women at DU can be almost as cruel and unempathetic as bush (which is the basis, I think, of all his evil deeds.). We've got your back. Relax and be yourself.

[MuseRider]

5. I am fine now but I really

appreciate your kind note. :hug: It took a lot of therapy and gutting it out but I made it. (It did do that for me, I am one tough mother!)

I am so disturbed by what I see happening with the young women in our culture. Partly it is being strongly encouraged but mostly because their mothers should have taught them better. Society sways. I worked as hard as I could to be a kind, loving, earth mother type for my boys when they were here but I did not slave for them and made certain they knew why. They are wonderful but out on their own in a society that only values women's sexuality and I hate it. You do what you can I suppose and they both know that you do not treat women that way but what will be the strongest influence? Most times it seems that if men can get away with treating women like chattel they will. Only time will tell I suppose.

Thanks. I may over react from time to time but other than that I am strong from the experience.

[Eloriel]

31. Whoa! You have every right to overreact, MR.

What you've described sounds absolutely horrific. And yes, child abuse. So glad you've come thru it stronger -- but geeze, isn't it time we as a society found ways to build strong little girls without all the pain?

Thanks for sharing your story.

[MuseRider]

36. It is long past time.

Thanks. It certainly made me a feminist!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

69. But sadly, not an uncommon story

I once had a roommate who grew up in a family with five brothers. Guess who was the only child in the family who had to do chores.

[lukasahero]

6. You speak the reasons this group was formed

"I usually stay out of these gender wars, it just brings up too many things."

Thank you for sharing your story. I will do everything in my power to make sure you are safe here.

Peace.

[MuseRider]

7. Thank you.

I feel very safe and have learned when I feel my pressure start to rise I am best off leaving the place for a while. That is one reason I am not usually found in arguments about birth control or women's rights. If I could learn to depersonalize it I would probably be a great women's activist!

[beam me up scottie]

8. I'm the same way.

I can't go near an animal rights thread. It enrages me when people are cruel and laugh about it.

[MuseRider]

9. Funny.

That is my other issue too. I simply can't deal with it, not even close to being able to walk into a humane society. I let my husband and kids go in and bring me critters, I simply can't stand that people are so irresponsible and cruel. Then there is the rest of it.

:hi:

[beam me up scottie]

10. This is great.

I would never have posted something like that in GD. I'd be a walking target out there.
I can mix it up with the bruisers anytime but I love having a place to retreat.

[MuseRider]

12. At the risk of sounding

like a "typical, overly emotional woman", like that is a BAD thing, I am very happy to see this. Bonding, friendship, sharing, cooperation, all those things that get throw at us as silly are some of the most important things and those are the things I find that I love the most in my women friends.

Sometimes we just need to be able to say things without having to defend the parts that are really just emotional reactions. I don't feel the need to explain myself all the time and I don't want to fight all the time. Yes, safe, a retreat. Nice in here isn't it?

No target on your back here.

[Eloriel]

34. Re "typical, overly emotional women" -- I love this quote

Women are repeatedly accused of taking things personally. I cannot see any other honest way of taking them. -- Marya Mannes


IMO, one of the worst things about the over-representation of men everywhere is the concomitant under-represetnation of the subjective and the over-reliance on the so-called "rational and objective."

There is a PLACE for the subjective in our lives, in pretty much all of our lives, and the refusal to let it into our personal and public awareness, make space for it, is what has contributed so much to everything wrong in society from unsustaintable agriculture and GMOs and energy policies to rampant greed and untrammeled capitalism run amok, to endless wars and on and on.

Native Americans following traditional ways learn many of their lessons about life from observing Nature. We, unfortunately, are too busy destroying or at least desecrating Nature to learn anything from Her. I'm afraid our only lesson will be: "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature," followed by a very painful to humankind Kaboom!

Anyway, this derision of the subjective is one reason I am so outspoken on that subject when I encounter appropriate discussions here at DU. We NEED much more of the subjective in our lives, both personal and public -- well, the personal informs the public.

[chicaloca]

73. and...

everybody seems to forget that emotions are not the opposite of reason. The two go hand in hand, if you think about it. There's a great quote from Dutch author Connie Palmen in her book "The Friendship" that goes something like: "Feelings have reason and emotions are rational." If you feel a certain way about something, there's probably a perfectly logical reason for it. For instance, if a certain smell really frightens you, it could be that you were smelling that when you were being abused or tortured or something. That's not irrational; it would make more sense to say that it's irrational to not be upset by something like that. It's the same with women getting upset when people say and do misogynist or sexist things. For god's sake, it's perfectly rational to get upset when people attack you simply for being born a female.

[lukasahero]

11. I'm the same way

and unlike many here, I'm not much of a fighter. (I try to avoid confrontation at almost all costs - that's how I found myself married to a guy who liked to push me around.) I've learned from the experience, and my family actually thinks I'm too fiesty, but I still delete more posts than I post. :-)

[MuseRider]

13. LOL!

I do that too (delete posts). It has to be learned if you are not taught. I am much the same, my husband was in a profession that usually bully's women and his father was the biggest asshole I have ever known (women stood when he walked in because if you sat you could not get things fast enough, seriously). His life is not as he planned it, that is for certain and I was no push over before we got married. I think he honestly thought the institution of marriage changed women into willing step and fetch it's. :shrug: It has been an interesting ride.

[all.of.me]

64. i'm like that with the abortion/adoption issue

it pushes my buttons. i was put up for adoption, and it is NOT always the best solution. of course, these days, there are more options, but people don't see the hidden problems with adopting.

i saw a bumper sticker not long ago that had the word 'abortion' crossed out with a big red X and 'adoption' written above it. i wanted to cross out adoption and write 'prevention.'

[Hello_Kitty]

76. Adoptee here too

And I've been pro-choice since I knew what it meant. This surprises some people who know that I was adopted as an infant. Y'know what? If abortion had been legal in 1968 and my birthmother had opted for one I wouldn't be here. So what? It's not like I'd know it. I've never felt my being adopted meant I should advocate forced childbirth on women. That's ridiculous.

As for the problems with adopted kids, have you read about this?

http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/9950/adoption_serialkillers.html

Granted, it's a bit outrageous but interesting nonetheless. I had no idea so many serial killers were adopted! :wow: If anything, it's a good response to those who argue against abortion because "you might be killing the next Einstein!" Well, you also might be aborting the next Son of Sam.

[all.of.me]

63. that is awful!

i am glad you survived your childhood. it is what made you what you are today. you can be proud that you made yourself, no one made you the strong woman you are. what a cool thought....

[Chovexani]

14. Because I've never fit into the traditional gender role

I was what you could call a tomboy growing up. I always ran around with the boys and played GI Joe at recess (and they always made me play Lady Joe because I was the girl...but I wanted to be Duke, because he was way cooler than the token chick Joe). I was taller and stronger than most of the boys growing up, and I rough-housed with the best of them. I never understood why my mother was so horrified that I preferred my Osh Kosh overalls to the pink frills I was forced to wear to church on Sunday. Funny thing is, in spite of all that I also played with My Little Ponies, Jem dolls (I hated Barbie though), etc. I cried endlessly because my mother refused to get me an Optimus Prime toy for Christmas back when Transformers were all the rage. Her rationale was that was boy stuff, and why couldn't I play with Barbie like a normal little girl? Even as a child I rebelled against the boxes people were trying to force me into. I made a butch-femme couple out of a couple of Jem dolls I had, without even knowing what the terms were, just because it was fun and made sense to me.

It's funny that you mention the losing when playing with boys. I think my own feminist epiphany came during my tween years when I was fed up with boys throwing hissy fits after I creamed their asses at Street Fighter II in my local arcade. Boy did I ever teach them not to fuck with Chun Li. :evilgrin: Ten plus years later, it never ceases to infuriate me that males treat me in a very paternalistic fashion when playing fighting games. The first round they inevitably "go easy" on me. When I bust out a 40-hit combo on their ass complete with finisher, they get mad and "play for real". And then I laugh sadistically when I cream them again, and they kick the machine and walk off humiliated, like I cut their dick off and waved it around for the world to see or something. Their fragile egos just cannot stand the notion of "just a girl" wiping the floor with them at something, let alone something that is too often thought to be the exclusive domain of males (video games in general, and fighting games in particular).

I'm a feminist because I believe boxes are for things, not people. Feminism to me is the freedom to be yourself without judgment or condemnation from others.

[beam me up scottie]

16. WOW! What a great definition!

"I'm a feminist because I believe boxes are for things, not people. Feminism to me is the freedom to be yourself without judgment or condemnation from others."

:applause:
Can I use that?

[Chovexani]

19. Thanks, feel free!

I think it's a message that needs to be spread far and wide. :hi:

[redqueen]

15. Because it's logical.

It just makes sense. Women are people, so why shouldn't they have equal rights?

[Book Lover]

17. 10,000 reasons, but

this one is the one that sends me here today:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=263&topic_id=6811&mesg_id=6842

[Chovexani]

20. WTF?!

Is he for real?! :wtf:

Is it just me or is Angry White Male syndrome at an all time high on DU lately?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

70. He seems to be globally angry about everything

At least that's the only mode I've ever seen him in.

[beam me up scottie]

22. That hurt.

A lot more than I'm willing to admit.

[geniph]

25. That's a prime example of why I love the Ignore function

someone who contributes nothing of value and invariably raises one's blood pressure is a great candidate for Ignore. Makes DU a much more civil and bearable place.

The guy's got issues. Don't let him get any on you!

[beam me up scottie]

28. Thanks,

I was afraid I was being "too sensitive" you know, cause of my PMS...
This just makes me even more giddy that we have this group.
You guys all rock!

[PassingFair]

41. Yeah, I saw that too.

I think he's just having a rotten, self-pitying kind of day. He's usually on target. Methinks he was hurt by a harpy.

[beam me up scottie]

42. I used to think so too.

But he really hurt my feelings.
I was on such a high and I so did not see that coming.

[PassingFair]

43. Look at the bright side, scottie...at least he's not your

psychiatrist! How f***ed up would THAT be?

[beam me up scottie]

44. BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

:spray:
Thank you, I needed that!
:rofl:

[MountainLaurel]

18. My click moment

Was in the 4th grade. For all of the previous year, I was waiting for that year because I could be a crossing guard for the "walkers" -- the kids who didn't ride a bus. There was only one other 4th grade walker, and he was pretty much a waste in terms of responsibility whereas I was used to helping the little kids get across the road (a two-lane U.S. route with coal trucks flying by frequently). When Mrs. Capral just sneered at me and said "Girls aren't allowed to be crossing guards!" I knew it was wrong, and that she was wrong.

[Solly Mack]

21. Born that way

I don't know how to be anything else. Raised by women in a big family of female dominated households...even those with fathers in the house.

Any other thinking seems alien to me.

[beam me up scottie]

23. I know, sucks when your parents

raise you with a strong sense of fairness and justice and then send you out here, doesn't it?
Bit of a shock when you find out what the rest of the world is like.

[Solly Mack]

24. It really was a shock that other people thought differently

Course, their thinking is wrong. :o)

[beam me up scottie]

27. Exactly,

They just don't know it.
Nothing a little 2x4 can't fix.
I'll be back in a couple of hours...
(walks out the door carrying a 2x4 and whistling):evilgrin:

[geniph]

26. It might have to do with having been reared by lesbians...

...or it might be that I'm the youngest of 13, and all those near me in age are boys. I grew up with unusual role models, women who did things that weren't ordinary in the early 60's. They were bank managers, they played baseball (NOT girlie softball slow-pitch), they built fences, they fixed cars. They didn't spend 100% of their lives worrying about clothes and cooking and other proper "women's" pastimes. They didn't fit into society's proscribed gender roles, and neither do I.

I confuse people. I look femme, I act butch. I'm married to a man, but I'm bisexual. My husband's a big beefy masculine construction worker guy who's also bisexual. He does the cooking. I'm the one who buys, hooks up, and maintains all the electronic gear, including the computers. He's a feminist. So am I. Nothing else makes any sense to either of us. Why on earth would it make sense for women to have different rights, fewer rights, lower pay, than men? What on earth does having or not having a penis have to do with one's salary?

I've always liked the quote: I, myself, do not know precisely what a feminist is. I only know that I'm called a feminist whenever I express a sentiment that differentiates me from a doormat.

I talk to classes of high school girls about careers in technology, and I find that they still think there are such things as "women's jobs" and "men's jobs." I like to point out to them that the only jobs that are actually limited in that manner is biological motherhood or biological fatherhood. (Well, certain careers in the adult film industry are limited, too, but I don't bring that up with the girls.) It's neither an advantage nor a disadvantage in any other job to possess a penis.

I do not accept that there are certain things I cannot do, or become, because I have ovaries instead of testicles. I never have understood that mindset, and I never will. I do not like stereotypes of either men or women; I think most people are happier and healthier if they don't go to extremes in trying to fit into pigeonholes, but simply allow themselves to be who they are. That means men can cry, and women can drink beer, belch, and scratch themselves. Or not. Forcing people to be what they are not creates a sad, sick, repressed society.

Some of my dearest friends are intersexed. They are neither male nor female. They don't choose to be one or the other; they simply choose to be themselves. How others view them is educational; people expend so much time and energy trying to force them to be one or the other!

[Chovexani]

29. Living life outside the box

What a great post. Especially this: "I think most people are happier and healthier if they don't go to extremes in trying to fit into pigeonholes, but simply allow themselves to be who they are." Truer words were never spoken.

I can relate a lot to your experiences. I'm also bi in a long term relationship with a bi male who looks stereotypically straight. Unfortunately I was raised in a very repressive, Talibornagain type family. I sort of had to stumble along until I found my own family, and I learned that being different was something to be proud of.

I like the "doormat" quote. I also like the quote, "Feminism is the radical notion that women are people." Sad that in this day and age, even among so-called progressives, this is STILL a radical notion.

[Eloriel]

35. What a great story!

And I can't help but point out: Goodness! Your family was a big tent all by itself. :evilgrin:

GREAT story.

[Eloriel]

30. My very similar experience --

and what a funny thing to realize that this type of experience must've been repeated endlessly around this country for generations! LOL.

My first "feminist" leanings (c. 1961 or so) was when my dad said to me about dating, "You know, you need to hide how smart you are if you want to attract the boys."

ROTFL. I have NO idea what words went thru my mind at that moment, but whatever they were could be loosely paraphrased thusly: Hah! Well then I'll have to find a better class of boys -- or do without.

Fast forward: I was one of those who would say, "I believe in equal pay for equal work, BUT..." (and don't ask me what came after the but, I have no earthly idea.) But then in 1976 I found a book at the PX in Mainz, West Germany (where my first husband, by then an Army officer, was stationed) that changed my life. It was "The New Women's Survival Sourcebook" and it was a Whole Earth Catalog type resource book with the most amazing stuff in it. It was an absolutely incredible, wonderful resource. I may still have that book somewhere, for the sentimental value.

I immediately started reading everything I could get my hands on. I read that book cover to cover, sent for a lot of things (free and for small amounts), and incredibly enough the post library had a gob of feminist books -- I remember Elizabeth Janeway especially, for some reason. And Gloria Steinem, of course. I read constantly, every waking moment I wasn't at work, for 3 solid months.

Somwhere along the line I realized that I'd ALWAYS been a feminist, I just didn't have either the terminology or the social analysis around which to organize my own thoughts and inclinations. Nor did I know what women went thru to get the vote as recently as the early 1900s ( :grr: ), nor that there had been a feminist movement starting in 1848, NOR that there had been people like Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley and John Stuart Mills and others actually advocating for women's rights in the 1800s and 1700s!!! THIS cry for equality for women wasn't new, it was OLD.

And then my marriage fell apart. LOL. No, feminism didn't CAUSE it, tho may have accelerated it, but most of all, feminism prepared me for going after a new future. I felt just as good about separating and divorcing as I had about getting married, with the exception of the sadness. After all, it hadn't been a particualrly good marriage (not much in it for me), and I was now getting my whole life back! Woohoo! A do-over (except I never expected to remarry)! Kewl!

I was raised by a strong woman who was the daughter of a strong woman. I have always been a feminist; it's who I am. My "independence" was one thing that my first husband was both incredibly attracted to and incredibly unhappy with (part of him wanted a nice "traditional" type wife). It was painful watching HIM wrestle with that dichotomy, and none too pleasant having to hold his hand and help him sort it out for yet another temporary period of time. I also got pretty sick and tired of knowing him better than he knew himself.

I'll never forget the day I realized something which is still incredible to me. Whenever I'd ask him "why'd you do that?" -- even just for information, not in an accusatory way, altho there were accusations sometimes since he sometimes did some amazingly stupid stuff -- he would respond with any excuse that came to mind, off the top of his head. It rocked my world the day I realized he then believed the little or big lie he'd just told me. No shit. I still have to shake my head in disbelief.

[beam me up scottie]

32. Let me guess,

your first husband blamed the divorce on feminism, right?

[Eloriel]

37. Nah, he didn't need to do that. He blamed his unfaithfulness on

me. Who needs feminism when you have that?

You know what I'm disgusted about, tho? I never told either his parents or mine why I left him. I felt so humiliated and ashamed ... and it didn't occur to me until he'd betrayed his SECOND wife the same way (tho she put up with it for years whereas I didn't), that my reluctance to speak the truth about this protected the jerk. Aaaargh!! :grr:

[beam me up scottie]

38. Mine blamed another guy.

There was no other guy.
Not even close.
But it was inconceivable to him that there could be anything wrong with HIM, you know?

My pop-in-law still calls me. He knows what his son did and he wishes I was still part of the family.
I told him he'll always be my pop.

[all.of.me]

66. yes!

i was accused of sleeping with every guy in our circle of friends. if there is a loyal woman in the world, it is me. i'm a loyal lover, and a loyal friend. how sad the father of my kids couldn't/wouldn't/still won't see that.

[marions ghost]

58. "feminism prepared me for going after a new future"

I like that thought--that feminism gives women an anchor over the rough times and hope for the future. Is it still doing that today like it did for women of the 70's? Or has it been beaten back so far that young women don't see it as a lifeline anymore? Hard to gauge that. any thoughts Eloriel?

[all.of.me]

65. i have had plenty of men be attracted to my strength,

only to try and take it away from me, probably because they were threatened by it. ? i don't know. one minute you feel great with this person, the next, they are sapping your energy. it is always a relief when they are gone.

and i have experienced, too, the knowing-the-man-better-than-he-knows-himself. that is also draining. when you tell them something about themselves, they get mad and defensive, as though they are perfect and tuned in. they are so resistant to a woman showing them how they can better themselves! i also have to say that i am who i am, because true friends have pointed out my flaws to me. we all have our blind spots, but men don't want to admit it.

i love your posts, eloriel. you are so informed and articulate, you're a pleasure to read.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

71. I think one of on-going problems with men is that

I read them TOO well.

Maybe it's a habit fine-tuned by decades of reading mysteries, but I quickly zero in on the piece of the facade that doesn't fit.

[valis]

33. I grew up with my sisters too.

I'm strongly for equal rights and opportunities for females and males. Seriously, are there any people these days who are not? Is that a feminist or not?

[Sparkly]

39. Hi, Group!

I grew up in a family of four sisters, no brothers. People would always express sympathy for my father in a joking (or half-joking?) way. Plus he taught at an all-women's college, and I grew up in a house on campus (it had been a dorm, and now it's a dorm again today). So even our babysitters were independent, smart women.

I'm the third, and my oldest sister (still my #1 trusted advisor besides Husb) was always rather cutting-edge in learning new things. She got the family into transcendental meditation, for instance. (My 16th birthday present was a mantra! I'm serious!)

So one day she gave me this book -- I think the title was, "The Young Woman's Guide to Liberation." For me, it was what used to be called a "click" -- or a series of "clicks." It basically showed the environmental components of gender identity. (As I recall, it was all "nurture" and dismissed everything about "nature.")

In those days, the cultural insistence on gender ID was enormous. We couldn't wear pants to school until I was in 9th grade! My elementary school had separate boys/girls staircases literally etched in stone (although they weren't used that way). The teachers asked the boys what they wanted to be when they grew up, but not the girls. And I thought my options were secretary, nurse, teacher, or ballerina.

By high school, I think I was more bold about it than I am now, looking back on things I did to assert my equality to boys. I used my own money to subscribe to "Ms." and kept the subscription until they sold it. It was really awesome in those earlier years. In the early 80's, it was spot ON in seeing the threat of all that's come to fruition now -- although it was then Jesse Helms and Phylis Schlafly and the so-called "Moral Majority," it's the same rightwing crazies preaching religion to turn back the clock.

I wouldn't be who I am today without "Ms." Or my sister. So much of my philosophy about life and politics took root back then.

Thanks for starting this group!!! :hi:

[PassingFair]

40. I'm a feminist because I'm a

female. Big DUH factor here....
I was raised with 3 brothers, so "the eternal male" had no mystique for me. I usually have no trouble relating to men unless they place no value on women other than sexual vessels.
My husband likes to spout that he's a lesbian trapped in a man's body. I think the ERA was a no-brainer, and that the current religious wrong movement grew from it's opponents in the 70's.
My mother always expected as much from me as the boys, if not more. My dad was a little bemused, but I DO remember him bemoaning the fact that although he had three son's, in middle age, he was "living vicariously" through me!
Yeah, I was something of a player......and he liked all my boyfriends!

Thanks for the "Mongo-Free Zone"

:evilgrin:

[DURHAM D]

45. I am a feminist because I was angry all of the time while growing

up in a very, very, very small town in Kansas in the 40s and 50s. I don't remember a day as a youngster when I was not aware that boys were treated better than girls - I only had to look across the table at my older brother who was said to be special but seemed less than ordinary to me. By time I was in grade school I was determined to get away from this suffocating environment as soon as possible.

I left for college at 17 and have never been sucked back into family stuff. I visit but engage only on my terms. Sadly, they are all (including my sister) still stuck in the 50s and my mother still wonders how she failed to "raise me right".

Anyway, thanks to Gloria and Betty my anger got a new name in the 60s and I found out that I was not so different after all.

[efhmc]

61. Well, I felt that natural anger but except for chores the five of us were

treated equally. In fact I always thought my father was much, much harder on the boys and in that instance it was good to be one of the girls. Society was another thing.

[Gelliebeans]

46. Well I became a feminist

as an evolution much like the rest of you. I grew up with 4 brothers and no sisters. My mother was a feminist and that is how she raised me.
My father is still evolving and I am proud of his progress. I think he would be farther along if my step-mother wasn't so willing to accept or promote the old rules. I still encourage them both whenever I can.

My husband is my equal partner and in fact because of my poor health he has been "the super parent". He has done the laundry since we got married and I have done the household accounts and everything else is split down the middle including child rearing. He had only sisters growing up and was expected to pull is own weight so I think that even though he refuses the title of feminist personally, he is one by his deeds.

I think that the most important thing I can do personally for the feminist movement is to raise my son to respect women and to realize that their potential is never less than his own. He is still at the "cooties" stage but realizes that girls can play hockey just as good as the boys.

[Senior citizen]

57. Okay, I'm starting a cooties thread.

This is the second time that's been mentioned in this forum and I have a few thoughts about it.

[NMMNG]

47. First, because I am a woman

And I believe in general that people should be seen as equal. Therefore the idea that men are superior to women for any reason is BS. Yes, in general men have more physical strength than women, but whoop-dee-doo. Women can carry and have babies, now we're even. B-)

I see the whole idea of enforced gender differences as hogwash. We socialize children into stereotyped roles based on what they have between their legs, sometimes with tragic results (particularly for those who are GLBT). These roles are set down in traditions, in religions, sometimes even in laws.

When children grow up they encounter a world that had different rules and expectations based on their genitals, much as when they were younger. And again, the traditions, religions, laws and such can be there to help or hinder them along the way.

It's not right, but it's how things are.

[kalibex]

55. As someone above said...

...it's only Logical.

How about that? Go figure - it's Logical. And it is. The Universe may not 'be fair', but that needn't stop us from pointing out the Obvious.

Competition happens (as well as cooperation, of course - both make the world go 'round)...but let's face it - it's exceedingly tacky, as well as bad form to Cheat by institutionalizing injustice (and then endlessly Rationalizing it in such a tiresome fashion).

Simple as that.


-B

[Warpy]

48. I came by feminism honestly

My mother's earliest memory as a child was walking in a suffragette parade with her mother and grandmother.

My great grandmother lived long enough to vote in the first election after suffrage was passed.

I was always brought up to value myself as a human being, but told that the world was an unsafe and unfair place for half the population, and that my job would be to fight to keep the few rights we had and to secure more until we were full citizens.

I didn't engage in those consciousness raising groups in the early 70s. I was already THERE. I'm the last in a long line of very uppity women.

[Misunderestimator]

49. I wrote a paper in Junior HS about the ERA... and received the ONLY

C I had ever gotten. The misogynistic asshat teacher's explanation? That he opposed equality. That was probably the moment that I began to identify myself as a feminist.

[lukasahero]

51. Are you f'in kidding me? He told you that?

:wtf: I can't even come up with a reasonable response to this.

So many things I read on this board, the experiences people have had, I have to ask them "no way, really?" Somehow I'm still always floored when they come back and say "yeah, really".

[Misunderestimator]

52. Yeah, really....

amazing isn't it?

Had a boss once who used to introduce men (in the same position as I) to others in professional situations as the "Intelligent Mr. so and so" or the "Brilliant Mr. whosit"... when it came to me, It was the "pretty miss whatever." I finally managed to help him understand that I didn't appreciate his recognizing others' intellect in his adjectives, while only placing importance on my appearance. :eyes:

When I was a programmer, I used to have men throw papers at me to type for them... They knew I wasn't a secretary.

Another group of men, on finding out I was gay, started including me in their pornographic email circle, and treating me like one of the guys (which seemed to consist entirely of degrading women).

And of course, there are always those men who insist on calling women "GIRLS" in EVERY possible situation.

I could go on and on... but.... nah... :hi:

:hi:

[geniph]

53. Men who call women "girls"

get called "boys" by me. Those men ARE boys.

Hey, Misunderestimator, where's Teena (nothingshocksmeanymore)? I'd expect to see her in here. We'll be handing out the toasters later!

[Misunderestimator]

54. LOL

She must be working hard today :)

(I do make a point of calling men boys when they call me a girl too. :))

[lukasahero]

50. Feminist born and raised so to speak

I was the "son" my father never had. My mother miscarried two males before I was born so that's been the running joke ever since. Apparently when I was young I "looked" like a boy - the clothes I wore and the way my hair was cut I guess and probably the way I acted (bit of a "tomboy" here). I have memories of people who didn't know us asking my older sister what her "little brother" would like from the candy counter etc. So basically, when I was very young, I was treated like a boy.

My mom used to call me arrogant (still does actually) so no, I didn't grow up with a particularly "feminist" role model. Well, yes I did. I grew up with my dad. He might not have known all the terminology and he might have been doing it for his own reasons, but my dad told me all the time that there was nothing I couldn't do if I wanted to. Not exactly true but pretty good encouragement for a kid's self-esteem. I might have avoided some pitfalls along the way if he had told me "the truth" (I internalized a lot of things as personal failings rather than sexist perceptions) but I'd rather have him believe in me than try to warn me about what the world wouldn't let me do.

The not knowing I was "just a girl" has kept things pretty interesting but it has also made me acutely aware, if only in retrospect, how we raise our boys and girls differently and how that affects who they become. No one can ever tell me it's just genetics - I lived it - they treated my sister differently than "her little brother". :)

[LisaLynne]

56. This is a great thread!!!

And a great forum. :)

I wish I knew how I ended up a feminist (the same way I wish I knew why I rejected the Christian Fundamentalist religion my parents were a part of). I remember sitting in church when I was 8. I had some doubts about the religion even then, but I was still pretty gung ho. And then I started to realize that they let boys do things they didn't let girls do around the church. And that did it for me. I could not conceive of a single reason why a single one of those boys was any better than me and that was it. The rest is history. :)

Thanks for starting this forum!!! Wooo!

[all.of.me]

59. haha! what a story!

how sad. we are reflections of our parents, and i dread to think what the discussions in that girl's family were like!

i grew up in the 60s, full of liberation of a certain kind.

in the early 70s, i had a 5 year live-in relationship. when he started cheating on me, i left. i moved several hours away and got a job in a summer resort working in the greenhouse that grew and tended the plants on the grounds. the entire crew was female, as well as the manager. this was new!

wow, i was turned on to feminism and women's rights, a liberation of a different kind! the conversations we had that summer while we worked the earth were life altering, not just for me, but for all of us. i knew that i'd arrived when a new girl came to work, she was only 19, and boy, did she need some lessons on women's rights, and i was there to help teach them to her!

i am so grateful to have grown up in those times. things were pretty progressive and enlightening throughout the 70s, until reagan came into office. then the mainstream world seemed to put a screeching halt to a lot of it. i don't think we've recovered at all. we need another revolution.

ok, that is my morning reflection with coffee and sunrise....

[mogster]

60. Because it is liberal and natural

And of course, I have three older sisters. I can't imagine them not being equal with any man I've ever known ;-)

[Chalco]

62. I am a feminist

Because my father told me to shut up and watch my brother's baseball game like a good girl, and I didn't.

Because my father told me to just find a rich man, get married, have kids, and stop thinking about college, and I didn't.

Because a graduate school professor told me that a women couldn't run the tutoring center as good as a man, but I did.

Because a graduate school professor told me a woman couldn't do well on the Ph.D. written exams, but I did.

Because a graduate school professor told me a woman couldn't do well on the Ph.D orals, but I did.

Because a graduate school professor told me women shouldn't have Ph.Ds, but I did.

Because my mother told me there's no such word as "can't", and I could and I did.

Because my 3 year old said "Mommy, women can't be president. There's never been a woman president," and I cried.

I am a feminist.

[all.of.me]

67. another thing that crossed my mind while reading this thread tonight...

...is that i was probably also shaped by high school. i went to an all girls boarding school, which i hated. of course i hated it! there were no boys at that age when all you think about are boys!

but in retrospect, it was really good for all of us. the competition with boys was removed. we proved ourselves as powerful, intelligent, creative girls over and over again. we also did not have to dress every morning to look good for the boys. we did not have to compete with each other for boys' attention. we were really tight with each other across all grades.

we were fortunate, too, to have very alternative teachers. it was 1969 after all.... but we were allowed to grow in ways that our entire society was growing. there were lots of new thoughts and experimentation back then, and we were encouraged to open up, too.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

68. Strong Mother, Three Strong Older Sisters

My mother worked her butt off for her family, often working 70-hour weeks at her small business while still putting a gourmet dinner on the table for all of us. My sisters went to the best schools and were all strong and outspoken liberals. They were all incredible role models, as was my father.

It never occurred to me to be anything BUT a feminist when I became politically aware.

DTH

[Lydia Leftcoast]

72. Complex story here

My mother and maternal grandmother, and indeed, all my female relatives, were very traditional 1950s housewives. They cooked and sewed and kept spotless houses and raised perfectly behaved children. They catered to and flattered the men, even when they secretly resented and hated them, feelings that they revealed when no men were around.

(I wish those men who wish that American women "knew their place" and "cared about how to please a man" could overhear conversations among traditional women--especially among traditional Japanese women--and find out what their "adoring slaves" really thought of them. Some of their conversations gave ME the creeps, as when a group of older women told a recently widowed friend how LUCKY she was that her husband died.)

They tried to coach me into being an insincere flatterer, but I hated the hypocrisy and wouldn't do it. I do compliment men--but only if I really mean it. This throws them off.

My father, a Lutheran pastor, was a huge book collector, and I was the only one of the three children who shared his interests in history, world cultures, and religions, so he encouraged me to read and study and follow my own interests.

Most of all, though, I dreaded growing up, because I knew that I didn't want the Betty Crocker lifestyle that my female relatives were following. They talked about how happy they were, but I could see that they weren't (my mother was depressed and addicted to painkillers), and the idea of spending my whole day cleaning house, cooking, and running around after a herd of small children seemed like a vision of hell.

Oddly, my mother and grandmother (who lived with us) constantly berated me for not being more domestic, but they rarely tried to teach me any domestic skills. I asked to learn to cook--they never seemed to have time to teach me.

I had taken sewing in home ec. class in seventh and eighth grade, and later, as a college student, I thought it might be more economical to make my own clothes, so during my first summer vacation, I asked my mother and grandmother to give me some sewing pointers and guide me in making a skirt. We made a good start, and then it was time for me to go to my summer job. I returned eight hours later to find that they had finished the skirt "because it was less trouble."

I never did become comfortable with sewing, and I learned far more about cooking from the various roommates I lived with than from my mother and grandmother---which, in retrospect, was a good thing, since they have never ventured beyond meat and potatoes.

So here I was, a college student, being encouraged to study and read, and then being berated for not being more domestic, yet being denied the skills to become more domestic, and don't get me started on the attitudes towards sex.

By the time I was half way through college, I saw my women professors as role models. If they could make careers in academia, so could I. Then two of them announced an honors seminar that would use The Feminine Mystique, The Second Sex, and Born Female as the main texts.

Practically everything I read in those books made me think, in the slang of the times, "Yeah, right on!"

I was more determined than ever to become an academic, so I dropped out of the secondary teaching program and started looking at grad schools. My mother and grandmother were horrified. I would never get married if I went into academia, and as my mother said, "That Ph. D will be mighty cold comfort when you're sleeping alone." (Since she and my father didn't get along, I wondered why she saw her marriage as such great comfort, but anyway...)

When I applied for grad schools, my mother and grandmother tried to dissuade me, as much from a clingy desire to enfold me in their tight little twosome as from a fear that I would never marry. (They never liked anyone I dated, anyway.) It was my dad who quietly came through when I needed the money for the application fees.

The worst fears of my mother and grandmother have come true: I am in my fifties and unmarried. But looking back, I can honestly think of one boyfriend whom I would have wanted to marry, and he dumped me, so it's not as if I turned down lots of offers.

Though I would have liked to find a life partner, I know for certain that if I had followed the 1950s path, I would have become the proverbial "mad housewife." Even now, I have no interest in getting together with anyone who wants a domestic goddess to manage his household, and I have accepted that this cuts down on the available pool.

So be it.

[Hello_Kitty]

77. Great story

You make me want to quit my boring job and go back to school. I love what you said about traditional women. I've always said that they are the real male-bashers.

I'd like a partner too but I've yet to meet anyone who hasn't tried to force me into a helpmate role or impose his worldview on me. Even the lefty liberal ones try to control me, though not quite as much. I'm not mad at them for it. I understand now how much pressure guys get to "control your woman" lest they be seen as, horror of horrors, "whipped". Now I just date for fun and have ceased even worrying about finding the perfect partner. Honestly, I'd be thrilled to find someone who wasn't a pain in my ass ;-)

[geniph]

78. I wouldn't give up on finding that life partner just yet, Lydia...

...you've got a lot of life left in you! There may not be "the one" out there for everyone, but there probably is "one" worth your time, anyway. Someday, a man will appear who isn't intimidated by your academic credentials, who isn't interested in conversations with 25-year-old swizzle sticks, and who thinks you're a damned interesting and charming person. It's bound to happen - there's a lot of us here at DU who've found you so even without meeting you in person!

:loveya:

[Finder]

79. Why limit yourself to men?

Women can make great life partners--I mean to each other. (I don't mean sexually--but that is fine too)

[Cerridwen]

74. Because I am intelligent, logical, because I have a goodly

supply of common sense, because I have compassion and I love, because I question the status quo and I cannot accept "that's just the way things are" comments, because I question authority and the "universal truths" on which much authority claims to be based, because I am fortunate to have all my senses with which to experience the world, because it just makes so damned much sense to be a feminist I can't imagine why everyone isn't.

[jmm]

75. My brother is 17 months older than me

I have two sisters but they are not close to me in age and I was never raised with them. I never tried to compete with him but at the same time anything he did I better be able to do too. Doesn't matter what it was I've always been very sensitive to people being treated differently. After I started to be able to hold my own against him in fights he started to agree ;-). Now we're very close and even though he'll be the first to help me if I need it he'll also be the first to tell people I don't need any help especially from a man.