i used to teach rape- prevention in DC

[jukes]

as a moon-light job.

my advise to woman was to ALWAYS carry a weapon. my weapons of choice:

1.) 12" landscape spike. easy to ditch or explain away (especially in a car,) strikes can be pokes w/ the pointed end, backhand or forehand with the shaft, hammer fist with the head end, especially to the temple. a little practice cn produce bar-strangles or wrist locks, driving your attacker to his knees where a kick to the throat or face shd finish the encounter. two points:

hesitation increases your risk. strike and continue striking until you smell urine, an indicator that the attacker is no longer a threat.

2) FORGET mace or pepper spray, carry a can of oven cleaner Y direct it at the face/eyes and/or exposed genitals if handy.

AVOID KICKS TO THE GROIN: males learn from the time they're five YO to protect that area and simply lifting a knee will defeat your kick. groin-kicks can distract him from the use of your primary weapon, but "feint" the kick, forcing him to lean fwd int range of
your primary weapon. don't over-extend to the point you're off-balance,
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SUBMIT. rape is a crime of dominance and humiliation, if you submit, he'll increase the "punishment" until his urges are satisfied by your fear & horror.

[bloom]

1. Hmmm

I hadn't heard about oven spray.


I've read there are different types of rapists and it seems that what works with one is not the same as what works for all.

[jukes]

2. MANY kinds

date rape-might get you expelled if you oven-spray the star quarterbacks eyes. i did touch on all types in my classes, but focussed on the unknown sociopath type as the most dangerous.

too much info to post in a thread, so i touched on the finer points.

EDIT: take a REAL martial arts course (not sport-karate or Tae-BO) and/or get a carry permit if your state allows it. LEARN HOW TO USE A GUN, OR IT'S MORE HARM THAN GOOD.

[Katherine Brengle]

34. I think...

the oven cleaner thing is genius -- I don't know how it works in other states, but you need to take a class and get a license to carry pepper spray in my state -- easier to grab some noxious chemicals from the supermarket...

Of course, some people are not effected by certain chemicals, so a backup method are just good sense.

[MuseRider]

3. It is good to see you again

Jukes! I have often wondered how you were doing.

Thanks. I spend way too much time alone in the boonies where I rarely encounter anyone but on the occasion that my farm gate is open there are some odd ones who drive the quarter mile up the drive just to look around. When I say odd I really mean odd. I have a little bb gun that looks like a real gun (that tells you how much I actually know about guns). It makes me feel a little safer although it would take a lot to make me shoot it at anything other than cans.

Mainly I wanted to say hello!

[jukes]

4. been meaning to PM; miss you

been fighting cigarette addiction w/ patches & turkish diazapam, so am too goofy for real chat right now.

wish i had some reefer.

will PM as soon as i get back to normal...

:pals:

[MuseRider]

7. Oh god, been there.

Big deep breaths and lots of water. I found the lozenges worked better for me but they are hard to get off of. Hang in there, it is lovely to breath and taste things again.

[jukes]

8. quit1ce for 4 yrs

then eft uo y took 1 puff. been trying to quit for a year now, off/o. much harder the 2nd time.

[MuseRider]

11. After 4 years, too bad.

It is torture to quit, it took me several tries. Sending healing vibes and a vibe of respiratory therapy.

[jukes]

13. i'm training again, so the breathing will return.

was smoking 2+ packs a day when i took my black-belt test. was MUCH younger, then, though...

[MuseRider]

14. LOL

age does make a difference.

[jukes]

15. aint it a shame?

[raccoon]

5. Thanks for the suggestions. Oven cleaner, who'da thought it?

IME, one is far more likely to be raped by a date than a sociopathic stranger, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared.

[jukes]

23. fingerjab to the eye

or raking blow to the adam's apple dissuades many a date rapist.

[Samurai_Writer]

6. Good information, jukes, except ...

I can't agree with you on this one...

"UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SUBMIT. rape is a crime of dominance and humiliation, if you submit, he'll increase the "punishment" until his urges are satisfied by your fear & horror."

If a guy is holding a gun to my head or a knife to my throat, or for whatever other reason I think that fighting back would make the situation worse, I would not fight back. I'd rather survive and deal with that, than possibly get myself killed.

[jukes]

9. agreed

SOMETIMES you must submit. then gouge out his eyes during his "moment of extacy"...

[VelmaD]

10. Biting him on the lip...

or ear...and I'm talking hard enough to draw blood and maybe even rip that sucker off...is also very effective I've heard.

[jukes]

12. GOOD!

but then find a blunt intstrument y pound him till you smell urine.

[mzteris]

16. Pens, pencils, rat-tail combs -

even keys held between the knuckles - can be used in case you forget your spike.

Aim for the eyes. Aim for the throat (that little triangle just above the chest bone).

Hairspray or cologne can be used to spray in their eyes, too.

If you carry a purse, carry the strap by the hand, so you can use the purse as a "club".

Be aware, be alert. Walk confidently. Look around - not nervously - but show you know your surroundings.

Have your keys in your hand when walking to your car. (Always lock your car, btw.) Get in quickly and lock the door behind you. If someone tries to shove you into the car, THROW your keys as far away as possible.

You're right - never hesitate. Attack/strike - at once. Never ever get in the car and just be quiet.

I'd rather die right there than be taken off to be raped and killed at leisure.

[MuseRider]

18. I'm with you.

I figure that I would rather take a stand in a parking lot, even if it is not populated than have someone drive me out to the country and kill me in a ditch.

I do not carry a purse anymore. My credit card or money go in my front pocket.

It sickens me that we have to learn and worry about these things. MEN! Teach your brothers, hold them accountable with even the smallest misogynist language and attitudes. I am trying with my own husband who is working with a bunch of women who want him to go to Hooters to get sponsorships and they dress with low cut blouses and tight jeans as marketing tools to sell sponsorships. I am losing the battle here in my own home. He knows I am not happy but it seems to give him great pleasure to point out that "most" women are better sports about their inferior position in society (my words for his attitude). Sorry, bad day. I told one of them what I thought and it went over like a bomb. Still, I will no longer let these things go by without comment.

You can also use the heal of your hand to shove quickly and with as much force as you can from under the nose. Just ram it hard up and toward his head.

[mzteris]

19. At least my sons

are being raised with the right attitude. So far, so good. (knock wood)

Hubby is far better than he USED to be, though the occasional sexist remark seeps through and sometimes he just can't see why I'm upset about it.

***Still, I will no longer let these things go by without comment.***

I agree. Whether it's racist, or sexist, or anti-gay - I let people know I disagree and why. I try not to be too snarky about it - unless they're totally egregious with their remark.

[benEzra]

17. One caution on the oven cleaner...

although oven cleaner (concentrated aqueous solution of sodium hydroxide in a foaming base) is indeed very effective, it is almost certain to cause permanent eye injury if you spray someone in the face, meaning that the threshold for using it is legally higher than the threshold at which you can use pepper spray. Spraying someone in the face with oven cleaner would be prosecutable as aggravated assault unless you are already at the point of facing death or imminent rape/serious bodily harm, i.e. the same conditions under which you could use a knife or a gun, whereas you can spray someone with pepper spray at a lower danger threshold such as simple assault (someone grabs your shoulder, etc.).

There are vastly differing grades of pepper spray; the stuff you get at mass-market retailers is usually fairly worthless. The best stuff on the market is the stuff most police agencies use--Fox Labs, available from www.selfdefenseproducts.com. Believe me, this is POTENT.

http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/sprays.htm



As with any spray, be aware of the wind direction, and back up while spraying!


(I am in no way affiliated with this, I am just very impressed with the product.)

[jukes]

21. unspoken caveat

GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM THERE. don't leave the can.

also carry a sim canister of mace y say "oopsie!"




remember: better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.

[Chovexani]

20. Every woman needs to know how to defend herself

Thanks for the work you did.

I'm a martial arts student, and one thing my sifu taught me was anything can be used as a weapon if you're creative enough. I foiled an attempted mugging by some punk ass teenagers with a pen cap once.

[jukes]

22. GOOD JOB! n/t

[ismnotwasm]

24. I have three near rape experiences. Here are two..

The first I was 15, an idiot, (nothing to do with the attempted rape, I wasn't at my best in life) and the guy DID have a gun. I was staying in these chessy little apartments (communal bathroom down the hall) And woke up with him over me. He said to lay back and enjoy it. I went bat shit, screaming out of that apartment actually having to unlock the door first, not even thinking I could have been killed. Someone from another apartment heard the commotion went after him and DID get shot at. The police were very dismissive.

The second, I was 23. I was in a car a man I didn't know very well. He was going to the store, but I noticed he started driving around and around, like he was lost. In retrospect, he was probably trying to find a neighborhood I didn't know. (Ha) He told me "I want some pussy" and I fought like hell-- I grabbed the steering wheel, and tried to run the car into a tree. He stopped and hit me. I didn't stop fighting. I reached over him to the electric window, (The car had electric locks and my side was useless) and got them part way down, and screamed my ass off, I was squirming and fighting so much he couldn't beat me down-- He was hitting me where ever he could. He tried shoving his fingers down my throat to shut me up. Dumbass. I bit. HARD. He could only hit me with one hand with his other in my teeth. Anyway the long and short of it was after maybe 20 minutes? (Hard to tell time, could have been 5, or an hour) He let me out. So bleeding, and confused, I flagged down the first car I saw and got a ride home. I didn't call the police, because I figured "It was my fault" for being stupid since I didn't know him very well.

A few months later I there was a police report about a man who murdered a women who had a car that matched the description of that man's. I've always wondered If it was the same man. I don't think it's likely, but I still wish I would have reported his rapist ass.

[bleedingheart]

25. When I was in college I carried a hunting knife

when I would walk to my campus job...

I recall once a man started to approach me ...I kept walking confidantly away from him but reached into my pocket for my knife...he literally stood still and put his hands up and mumbled something and started to walk quickly away..

the knife was a gift from an old flame...he was in the military and bought it especially for me...how sweet..

[bliss_eternal]

26. I took self defense in college--

but could use a refresher as that was quite some time ago.

Anyway, she taught us how to blind the fucker, with eye gauges.

If we got a hold of his genitalia to grab, twist and pull down HARD.

She also taught us how to break arms and legs--in the event we can run away before he does--that way he can't come after us.

She taught us not to necessarily depend on things we carry, as some things can be taken away or used against us. :shrug:

But I don't know how often one would be in the position to do these sorts of things... Which is another reason why I'd really like to take a current class and see what is being taught these days.

[jukes]

29. i mentioned weapons

because causing harm bare-handed is difficult y requires training/practice & commitment. many fail to use bare-hand techniques bevause they fear the reprisal. martial arts training, supplemented by weapons training, are the best deterrants.

DO NOT PURCHASE A FIREARM ONLESS IT IS LEGAL TO CARRY, & YOU"RE DEDICATED TO PRACTICE.

a knife @ close quarters is MY preferred weapon, & i NEVER go out w/o 1, even if i'm packing heat.

NO diss to TKD or TSD practitioners;i've known some badass korean stylists, but jumping spin kicks are NOT best for rape prevention.

my choices:

Kenpo
Lima lama
brazilian jujitsu
wing chun (NOT jeet kun do)

CAVEAT: these are MY choices and mean NO diss to other styles!

[bliss_eternal]

32. I understand, jukes

I hope it didn't sound as if I was putting down your suggestion of carrying weapons. I was merely sharing what I was taught--but again, that was quite some time ago. lol. I can totally see the wisdom in what you've suggested.

I'm intrigued by the styles you've suggested as well. I've heard good things about brazilian jujitsu. I appreciate your response! :hi:

It's so cool that you are sharing your wisdom with us this way--it's so important as women to do whatever we can to feel (and be) empowered.

[mzteris]

33. my boys' sifu

teaches them not only wing chun - but practical self-defense as well.

Also, they practice chin na (kinda like wrestling for all you non kungfu types) because - as the sifu says - 90% of all fights end up on the ground! Spin kicks LOOK good but aren't that practical in reality.

The kids have recently gotten a dose of "reality" as they've started practicing "streetfighter vs. grappler" - where the "streetfighter" canNOT use any kungfu, and whose sole purpose is to STAND UP. They kids thought they knew their "holds", etc. but found it was much harder to get your opponent to "submit" when they weren't cooperating with the moves.

[jukes]

31. excellent idea

a refresher course will hone your skills, y is MUCH better than aerobics, stair-stepping, Tae Bo, or other methods to keep in shape.

[Sparkly]

27. Something I used to do...

... as a young woman living alone in urban areas, especially NYC, when I had to walk alone at night...

I've always heard that predators pick up on any indications of vulnerability -- walking slowly, looking unaware, anything that appears physically uneven or unbalanced or weak (like being in high heels!). So I made it a point to look just the opposite -- walk decisively, look at things, etc...

But I also did something else, and I don't know whether this would be of any use practically if attacked, or not: I carried my keys laced between my curled fingers, so that they stuck out between them. I'd heard they could be used to scratch an attacker's eyes that way. Maybe just they sight of them (if anyone noticed) or just the idea in my own mind that I felt "ready" was deterrent -- who knows.

(I also carried a small cannister of mace on my keychain -- but it would have taken some precious seconds to open the little snap-shut case and employ it.)

I told my daughter, 18, about the keys idea about a week ago -- she was amazed that I even knew of such a thing!

[cally]

28. Your last line makes me laugh

I also used the types of defense you do. When I told my daughters, they are also amazed that I had any knowledge. I think it's the role of daughters to think their Moms are idiots.

[jukes]

30. keys between the fingers are better than nothing

but aren't particularly effective. a small "kell Light" attached to the key chain is better; blind him w/ the light, the strike a hammer blow to the bridge of the nose or poke it hard in the eye.

i've seen several episodes where mace nozzles get blocked by lint and fail to fire or backfire on the defender.

[Katherine Brengle]

35. Honestly,

I have always heard that keys are not considered a useful deterrant...

I do it too, but I think it is better to do the other proactive things you have suggested--walk like you own the world (I tend to do this anyway lol), dress in clothing that allows for easy fast movement when you are going to be out late alone or whatever...

I think carrying a huge rock in the bottom of a purse is probably a better weapon than the keys--especially one with a longer strap--swing that shit right into the side of the bastard's head.

Like a baseball in a sock.

[jukes]

36. baseball in a sock=good!

in the joint lots of prisoners carry 2 rolls of quarters in a tube sock tucked down their pants. in mimmum security it works well, y can be swung like nunchakas.

[bliss_eternal]

37. How do you feel about the method known as

krav maga?:hi:

[jukes]

38. krav magda is extremely effective

and becomes useful much more quickly than other styles.

the drawback is that it's hard to find a REAL KM instructor stateside. it's become known enough that fakers from other styles are advertising it as a selling point.

CAVEAT EMPTOR!!!

[bliss_eternal]

39. I noticed that--

in searching for information about it on-line. There were only a few studios listed on one site. Another seemed to have locations everywhere--I got the sense they were captializing on the name. Easy to do when it's in southern California and Jennifer Lopez worked with a krav maga trainer for a film. :eyes:

Thanks for the feedback.:hi: I'll keep my eyes on the one with the few studios listed, as they certify more in the authentic style and form.

[undergroundpanther]

40. I bite faces

I don't submit. I wait until they reach than I grab them first.
I pull them forward than
I bite the face skin,nose ,lip and tear with all my strength.
I punch the head right behind the ear.
I punch the neck,put my thumbs under the eye sockets where it is soft and push,I grab any hands I see reaching twords me and grab the wrist nerve yank them forward and bite whatever flesh I see. If A hand goes on my face I bite it.I put the outside edge of my shoe to their kneecap and run it down the shin bone ending with a stomp on the arch.I have grabbed hair and crack heads on cement or on a stair railing.I growl and snarl and never lower my eyes.When they go down I stomp the knees first to break them ,than I stomp neck,ribs,face, balls and I do not stop stomping until they are not able to move and they are unconscious.
If I can grab a weapon I bash and do not stop until they cannot move.
If oven cleaner why not try Drano?
Why not ammonia?
Battery acid?

[jukes]

41. battery acid wd be hard to dispense

and it's relatively weak, compared to drano & oven cleaner. battery acid is 35% sulfuric acid, as opposed to liquid acidic drain openers @ 98%.

+ it's harder to justify a woman having battery acid in her purse. "replacement" battery acid comes packaged in wax-paper boxes.

oven cleaner dispenses via spray, so is easier to get into an attacker's eyes than drano which is of a coarse granular consistency, but the same problem that applies w/ mace can be experienced; it can be blown or deflected back on the defender. it would be very effective rubbed into the eyes & mucus membranes, but opening the safety cap and pouring it wd be too time-consuming except during an incursion into your residence and as a last resort.

the hairspray/lighter flame thrower *does* work, BTW.

i heartily approve of your ferocity. total commitment is necessary to escape a rape. +, if you can't escape, make it COST that bastard! an eyeball lying on the floor will most likely cause a loss of that erection he prizes so much!

out of place, but important:

head-butting is *extremely effective" but very misunderstood, mostly due to films. it's almost impossible to headbutt w/ velocity, the neck muscles are thick and not intended for the maneuver. best technique is to grab assailant by collar or neck & PUSH them away; when they push back to overcome your resistance w/ their "superior" strength, reverse & PULL them forward whilst butting fwd w/ your head. the combination of their own momentum, your pulling velocity, & the butting motion then become devastating.

remember to tuck your chin as you butt; the object is to strike their nerve/cartilage rich zones (nose/lips) w/ your relatively insensitive brow & "crown" region.