OK, that does it

[geniph]

I'm not reading any more threads on the Duke case, rape, sexism, etc. in GD. I thought I had a thick skin, Internet-wise, but goddammit, FEMALE apologists for RAPE - well, that is just more than I can take.

If I see one more WOMAN claiming that women "often" make false accusations of rape, my head might just explode. I've been trying to calmly reason with such people, explaining just how ugly a rape case gets for the victim and how little possible return there could be for such a false accusation, and what I get back is, "well, then, what man would commit rape knowing the hell he's going to go through?"

(excuse me for yelling here for a minute, but)

DAMMIT! THE ACCUSED IS NOT PUT THROUGH HELL IN A RAPE TRIAL! THAT WAS JUST MY POINT! IN A RAPE TRIAL, NORMAL LOGIC IS TURNED ON ITS HEAD AND THE VICTIM BECOMES AT FAULT FOR THE CRIME AND VILIFIED BY ALL AND SUNDRY.

People feel free to examine every aspect of the life of a woman making a rape accusation, but the same does NOT happen to a man accused of rape. No, it doesn't matter if he sends emails saying he wants to flay women alive - not relevant to the case. But if the woman had consensual sex once, why then she's a slut and the whole damn thing is her fault.

I guess everyone has a limit. I just hit mine.

:mad:

[AllieB]

1. I agree. I've never seen so many WOMEN repeating RW crap

when it comes to the Duke rape case. It's disgusting. :puke:

[bloom]

2. I had been staying out of it for awhile

and then I got sucked into it today.

Yikes.


Re: FEMALE apologists for RAPE


I can't understand it either.

[ismnotwasm]

3. It's disgusting

I woke up pissed about it, posted a couple of times on one before it went down.

The only thing I can think of is that is gives a false sense of security to such women. I believe women live in a constant state of fear. Does the bullshit "false accusation" crap make them feel safer?

I also believe that certain women wouldn't know recognize sexual harassment or certain forms of sexual assault if it was happening to them. They would think it's "all in good fun" and "no big deal" Team players, as it were. Flag wavers for rape culture.

A couple of young women were discussing the approaches of men to them. It was "west coast vs east coast" These young women were criticizing the evidently more laid back style of the west coast men, as opposed to the "assertive" approach of the east coast male. One women said "feminazi's got to them" "You have to wait three months for them to ask you out" One point for the "assertive" east coast male.

I was honestly afraid to ask what they considered assertive, and what was wrong with waiting. Among other things I wanted to say.

[geniph]

4. Sometimes I wonder if it's just mammalian nature

this whole rape business, especially gang rape. I wonder sometimes if it can be weeded out. I was watching The Secret Life of Otters on Animal Planet, and was kind of appalled at how rough the males were on the females in most species - in sea otter populations, the males are sometimes rough enough that the females don't survive mating. Now, obviously those males don't pass on their genes, but I started thinking about all the species that essentially perform gang rape. It seems as if nearly every species that doesn't have a single dominant male with a "harem" or a handful of species that do pair-bonding practice it. Look how many practice infanticide, too, killing the young to force the female into sexual receptivity so they can pass on their own (hyperaggressive) genes.

Is it hopeless? Is testosterone just too closely bonded with both sex and aggression, so that some males will never be able to separate the two? How do we identify those males early, and either give them additional social conditioning or monitor them? How do we stay out of Brave New World territory if we even THINK about pre-emptively chemically conditioning those genetically predisposed to aggression?

Now, obviously, most males are able to handle the testosteronal libido/aggression overlap. But clearly there are some that cannot. Why? Is it social conditioning? Are these males genetically different? Is there some way we can predict which males will exhibit antisocial aggression BEFORE they do? Is that even something we want to try to do, or is that just a horribly scary slippery slope to weeding out those of us likely to be political/social dissidents, too?

[MuseRider]

5. Seems to me,

especially after duking it out today on the groping thread, that they support each others aggression. Really, what is there to make them change? I think it has to do with education, intellectual in-curiousness and fear of losing their god given "rights" to sex whenever and however with whomever they want. But, I am angry right now. Seems to me they would want to acknowledge this in themselves and try to learn better behavior but I guess our freedom from abuse is less important than their all important need to relieve themselves when they feel like it.

It has to be something like that because there are some truly supportive and understanding men. They have taken the time to look inwards and examine their feelings and allowed themselves to feel compassion or maybe empathy. The others, well, they are "brutes" for lack of a better term, who reinforce each others manhood at our expense.

I am angry, going now to nurse my indignities. :crazy: :banghead:

[ismnotwasm]

7. Naw

There's a whole theory behind that--you know "rape is an adaptation" As in "The Natural History of Rape"
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0262201259/002-6142941-8272048?v=glance&n=283155

I might actually hold my nose and read this, because as I was doing some research, I found a rebuttal by the authers to their critics. There feelings were hurt evidently, they felt they were taken out of context, no understood etc. It's probably worth reading, event though I'm sure it's Dawinian Patriarchal drivel, with a little old time Freud thrown in.

I think it's a possible cultural adaptation, but by NO means a biological one.

That's why I believe whole-heartedly in RAPE culture, dispite the critisism of it. Rape culture IS an socio/cultural adaptation.

The higher mammals often do have social structures as you describe, but it's not universal, certain mammals mate for life. Even mother tigers have been known to eat their young. If you want to see some deadly females, go to the insect world. Or consider that males have to fight to the death or severe injury in some species to "win" the right to the females. (Personally I like the way certain whales "do it" they are so huge, it takes three)

I read a wonderful book on the social structure of chimpanzees captivity.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0801858399/002-6142941-8272048?v=glance&n=283155
They tried to mimic nature as much as possible, to get an accurate picture of how our closer relatives behave. Actual Mating was over in like a minute if I remember right. And the matriarchs held their own.

Human beings, deprived of sane social structure act in all kinds of ways, one of the reasons we have genocide to this day. Rape was a by-product of Balkins genocide, because the rapists knew it would destroy the culture--which was the goal.

[bloom]

8. Rape free societies

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=341&topic_id=5029


This study shows if nothing else that rape does not have to be a part of our culture.

It might be easier to start over somewhere than to change the society that we are in - rape and war and capitalism seem like they go together.

I think changing society - making it more socialistic - is all a part of this.



Feminist blogs inspire me. Women (and some men) connecting on this subject all over the world.

[tnlefty]

6. Crap! I've been really busy with primary elections and I've missed another

dustup apparently. I'm not sure that I want to know - especially if a woman is trying to make excuses for rape/rapists. Do you know where I may find the thread just in case I decide that I can stomach trying to read through it?

[geniph]

11. It's locked, thank the goddesses

and I can't stomach going back into it. She started with a deliberately-provocative question "does innocent until proven guilty not apply in rape cases" and the usual suspects showed up to declare the utter innocence of all accused rapists, because you know, MOST women lie about alleged rapes.

:mad:

Now, granted, there were a hell of a lot of posters appalled by those kinds of statements, too, but the original poster quibbled with every single solitary one individually. Maybe she just wanted to drive up her post count.

What-the-FUCK-EVER.

:eyes:

[ThomCat]

14. Maybe she believes in the Fox News philosophy.

If you say it often enough then somehow it magically becomes true.
:eyes:

[bliss_eternal]

16. It doesn't help that the rape apologists jump to her defense....

she must be their wet dream come true. :eyes:

[ThomCat]

17. Absolutely. Having a woman defending rape/rapists

validates their position. "See, even she agrees with us, so you must be just a crazy feminist."

[bliss_eternal]

20. Exactly.

That's happened to me so many times, not just on women's issues. It's happened to me regarding gay rights and racism as well.

There's always *someone* that comes along to debunk my argument by saying that when the situation happens to them, it wouldn't bother them in the slightest. Of course those saying it aren't in a position to be discriminated against to begin with (not gay, not a person of color), so it seems insane to me. But of course, along comes the priviledged anglo-philes to dog pile on me, flame the shit out of me, and tell me how insane *I* am--because a bunch of white guys have never been offended, by the situation in question. :eyes: Yeah...that's convincing.

So add crazy defender of all minority rights to feminist, and you'll have the way I'm viewed on these boards...

[tnlefty]

19. I don't think that I found what you referenced, but I did read through the

groping thread and there were some 'different' types of comments in that one! Some reminded me of a documentary that I recently viewed on Free Speech TV, and I don't think that it's my responsibility to control a man's behavior. It's my job as the mother of 3 boys to teach them while they are growing up to LEARN TO CONTROL THEMSELVES in all aspects of their behavior. Jeeze. One of my neighbors asked me years ago why I RARELY even smacked any of my boys when they were younger (she has 2 daughters very close in age to my 2 oldest) and she would occassionally swat one of her girls on the behind when we were together. My response was, "I don't want to send the message to my sons that hitting someone is a way to control their behavior. They're male. Someday they will grow up and date, possibly marry, and they just may date and marry women, so they need to understand that hitting isn't the way to go." She thanked me for that and mentioned that she'd not really thought of that and she was glad that I did.

I've discussed no means no, drinking is no excuse and they have been appalled by the idea that getting a female drunk and having sex with her could ever be okay. To them it's just a sick thing to do.

I know that this is rather rambling, but I'm trying to set an example for my boys and I guess I just wonder at times how some males don't get the message.

edit: tricky typing fingers

[bliss_eternal]

9. I've got a woman on ignore

that shows up to just about every rape thread to provide "possibilities" for rapists. Besides being a rape apologist and sexist, she is a racist--so I wasn't too broken up about putting her on ignore.

:eyes: I never thought I'd see the day when women would stoop so low. I had no idea it just required me to be a member of DU for a while...

[kitkatrose]

10. I think I know who you're talking about.

x( I've been ignoring all the Duke threads, but today, I just had to check one out since it wasn't about the lacross team. :hurts:

[atommom]

12. Me too. I think I read the same thread.

Shoulda known better... x(

[ThomCat]

13. I think we all probably do.

There's one really obnoxious person...

[bliss_eternal]

15. Was it horrible?

I haven't been in GD or GDP today...rather afraid to go after hearing there was another rape charge filed (don't know the details yet, just saw the headline briefly in news area on internet)...

:scared:

[kitkatrose]

18. When I checked, it sucked eggs,

but wasn't up to the nasty Duke or Koby standards. But that was about 5 hours ago, so who knows what happened. I hid it shortly after my excursion. :scared: How do people get to be like that? Is it the anonymity of the internet, or are they just assholes in real life?

[bliss_eternal]

21. I think it's a bit of both

or a lot of both, actually. Anonymity has a lot to do with it, because frankly most of these people are too chicken shit to ever tell us this bullshit to our faces, if they were ever given the opportunity to do so. Part of it has to be the asshole gene is inherent.

I'm SO glad you hid it. These days, when I do pop in that's all I find myself doing--hiding threads. Alerting on them doesn't do a damn thing so I've given that up.

[AllieB]

22. If it's the person I'm thinking of

she tends to always take the 'right' position. I first noticed her before I began posting, and like the Duke threads, she always popped up on the Schiavo threads.

[bliss_eternal]

23. Hi AllieB--

weird isn't it? It could be one of a few different people--I know of at least three people on this board that have a female name--who can say if they are really what they present themselves as... :shrug:

[AllieB]

24. That's true, bliss_eternal

maybe 'she' thinks that her credibility is enhanced if she uses a female name when posting about women's issues. It is fascinating to watch her work herself into a tizzy on the Duke rape threads though.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.