"A Speech by Finn Mackay" - UK -on prostitution

[bloom]

@ http://laurelin.wordpress.com/


"...But as well as the billions of incidents of rape, battery and homicide that are committed against women in prostitution, there is the matter of the very institution itself. The very business of prostitution as a whole is a violation and violence against all women, against all of us. The fact of prostitution is that its very existence depends on a class of people (and yes, I do think women are a class), that is women, who are for sale and a social assumption that those people born into the male sex enjoy a natural right to buy and sell those Othered people. Every hierarchy we know in patriarchal society plays out in prostitution, not just along the lines of sex, but race and class, for example. It is no surprise that in every country where research has been done that it has been found that the majority in prostitution are poor women, are black women, are immigrant women. Real equality and freedom cannot exist as long as prostitution does. The suggestion of women’s equality, in a world where the value we all share as women is that our bodies all have a price, will never be anything more than just that, a suggestion. As Andrea Dworkin said, while any one of us is being bought or sold, none of us are free. And this is why legalising the so-called ‘sex industry’ can never make women safer; the fact is it will make all women less safe, including the women within it.

Legalisation has not made women safer in Amsterdam, where following legalisation, child prostitution increased by over 300%. It hasn’t made women safer in Australia, where trafficking and the illegal prostitution sector rose by a third in just one year after legalisation....

Do we, as a society accept that men have a right to buy and sell women’s bodies whenever they choose, or do we not? The existence, pervasiveness, growth and sheer long history of prostitution is not an example of its normality, for there are many other shameful blots on our humanity and dignity that have lasted just as long. Next month marks the 200th anniversary of the abolition of the slave trade, a long battle that in many ways is still not won. But we took a step 200 years ago that we wouldn’t have done with excuses and acceptance, and in so doing, we committed to an idea of an equal world, and we became closer to it, for the benefit of us all- and we must do the same with prostitution. Just like them, nobody has the right to expect us to excuse or accept any form of oppression, based simply because of how long it has been in existence. No, we will not defend the indefensible or excuse the inexcusable, and we will win. And maybe 200 years from now we will all be free. Thank you."

[ismnotwasm]

1. It's so odd

Men and women completely indoctrinated refusing to see the realities of the average prostitute. I include the young men on the street as well. The Union of Sex Workers means well, but the bigger picture of WHY women choose/are driven/forced/are attracted to prostitution is only addressed in the most perfunctory way, with anecdotal stories supporting the premise that legal prostitution is a road to "sexual freedom" Whatever that means. The freedom to ensure the Male Right for available fucking 24/7? This is good for women? For men? I don't think so. And it's the wrong road to sexual freedom.

I watched CSI last night. One of the characters was a "$5OOO.00 hooker" The character, a current culture stunningly beautiful women, strode in with confidence and power. Dazzled the CSI a bit. I sat there watching this shit, counting in my head the dead I know from this "profession" Men and women. Thinking of a woman I know dying from crack addiction who admits being a "five dollar" crack whore. I thought of my Filipina friend--she and I discuss politics at work. One of the things we've talked about are the Filipina's tricked into prostitution in Saudi Arabia and other places. They think they're going to be housekeepers. Or the ones who just want out of devastating poverty do choose prostitution, because it's the only choice for women.

They say prostitution should be a legal choice.
At one time I believed that. I believed that. God help me I did. I believed it was an individual right, before I realized the extent of the rule of patriarchy. And then the dead and walking dead started piling up. The abandoned children. The lost souls. The diseased ones. The addicted. The childhood stories. I wondered around the edge of that world just long enough to see the reality. I never met any 5k hookers. Expensive ones, but not that expensive. I remember reading "The Happy Hooker" as a young girl. The scene that I have never forgotten was the one where she got her ass beat because her instincts were off on one of her Johns. That's what she blamed it on. The failure of her inate street instinct and vast experience. Wasn't the John's fault, evidently.

There is a thriving sex industry that struggles for open legitimacy. One of my objections is this industry tries to tell us what good sex is, who plays who's role. Who looks good, what's sexy. It wants to sell things, up to and including human beings. It tells us "these are your choices" It's the most manipulative, and the most powerful, market around. And just about every other market bites off a little piece, legitimizing it further. Just like that CSI show, the sexual titillation--the market, is always off the backs of women.
I always think of the Pink Floyd song "Dirty Woman"
Women carry the burden of sex and sexuality--both the promise and the blame. We carry it as a burden when it should be a joy. It's sold when it should be a precious gift.

[bloom]

2. That's a great post.

I don't have the insight into the problem that you do. I did live somewhere once where John's would come around soliciting poor women/girls. It gave me the creeps.

Men don't cruise middle class/etc. neighborhoods.


When you combine that with the "The Motherhood Manifesto" - which goes into how underpaid single mothers are esp. - and most mothers anyway - well - it just stinks. Desperate circumstances. Little help.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=229x4446


But there are the examples of societies that have improved the situation - so I don't post these things just to post them (or as some people seem to think - that I am just ranting against men) - but because there is so much room for improvement and hope.

And with this article - from the UK - it's interesting to see what people are saying about this in other countries.

[ismnotwasm]

3. Honor The Mother

Most Societies don't, not really. And that may be at the root of many troubles. I usually don't toss words around like "sacred" much. It's taken out of context, but there is something sacred and very healing about honoring the Mother. Historically, in many cultures, especially so-called "civilized" cultures women have fought from the very dregs of oppression, from a literal non-human status. Little more than a vessel or container to grow heirs, or family workers, sons before daughters preferably.
And what has changed? Well we have more job options. More choice. But those choices have an invisable fence around them and are STILL under attack-- The ones who cry "man bashing" don't understand. I wish we had "the choice" to not have our bodies seen as body parts. The choice to REALLY control our sexuallity. To control our social status as we age. I can only think the root of all that vehement denial is fear of facing a very unpalatable, but profound truth.

And Mothers are still unsupported, unprotected, unhonored, especially as you say single Mothers. (What! No big strong male protector?!")
Every rape, every violent attack, every demeaning of women is a demeaning of The Mother. All Mothers. And If I had a Mother's day message to the world, that would be it.

I've always loved men. They don't necessarily love me. I can see the damage in them, the confusion and the fear. The strength. There are so many that mean well. They are the robin hoods and white knight archetypes. The soldier and the superhero. But meaning well wears thin after a while, and until men can look women in the eye as an equal human being first, prior to categorizing, prior to sexual desire or sexual dismissal, the situation will continue.

So any message of hope is welcome, any post you make about ending exploitation of women, rape-free societies, progressive feminism as a force for healthy social change is very welcome by me.

:)

[politicat]

6. Feminism is about more than this.

It's not just about motherhood, or fertility, or sexuality. When we make feminism out to be only about our reproductive organs (in terms of contraception, pregnancy, abortion, sex work, rape) then we're missing the point and objectifying women just as much as the MCPs (Male Chauvinist Pigs) do on the other side of the argument.

My body is not who I am. It's a part of me, and I own it, but it is not the sum total of me, and most especially, my ovaries and uterus are not even the larger part of the equation. Yes, our biological legacy contributes to who we are, what we can do and where we are going, but we are not the sum total of our biological legacy.

I really despise this single issue push within feminism. It's all interrelated, and until we really get that into our heads and our bones, we're going to splinter and fight and accomplish little. Reproductive rights are necessary to employment rights which are necessary to property rights which are necessary to marriage rights which are necessary to contraceptive rights which are necessary to reproductive rights. It's all a big web, and my intentional childlessness does not make me any less a woman, any less a feminist or any less of an individual with rights.

Sorry. Hot button issue for me. Hallmark Day is an obnoxious piece of consumerist clap-trap, and the emotional investment in the disgustingly easy, biological actions of reproduction makes me snarly. I just don't think we should reward or enshrine anyone for having functional organs. We don't praise each other for having great colons when we take a dump, after all.

[cally]

4. What a powerful post

You gave me chills with that. I found the last paragraph great.

"There is a thriving sex industry that struggles for open legitimacy. One of my objections is this industry tries to tell us what good sex is, who plays who's role. Who looks good, what's sexy. It wants to sell things, up to and including human beings. It tells us "these are your choices" It's the most manipulative, and the most powerful, market around. And just about every other market bites off a little piece, legitimizing it further. Just like that CSI show, the sexual titillation--the market, is always off the backs of women.
I always think of the Pink Floyd song "Dirty Woman"
Women carry the burden of sex and sexuality--both the promise and the blame. We carry it as a burden when it should be a joy. It's sold when it should be a precious gift."

[femrap]

8. Great Post....thank you.

Your words should reach into high schools.

[Warpy]

5. I look at sex work a little differently

and I don't think a prostitute ever sells her body. She sells a service, often a fantasy service.

Prostitution is as old as we are, and we trade sex for companionship, for food, for a home, for protection. It's not much of a leap to trade it for money.

A good sex worker knows how to talk to her clients, to build a fantasy world, to make it less a transaction of orifice for money, while keeping it safe. A good sex worker is worth every dime she gets.

I am a nurse. I've known the lowest street hookers as well as high priced call girls. The problem is the illegality combined with the existence of pimps. This is a woman's business and men should have no part or profit, except as customers. The law should stand up for the workers against the freaks who are looking for a woman to beat up.

I was also a wife with an unfaithful husband. I would much rather if he'd gone to a licensed and safe professional instead of to the skank who passed along a disease, put me into the hospital and ended my fertility.

The keys are control, licensing, protection, and health inspection. It is never going to go away, ever.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. I'm so sorry that happened to you!

Off topic a little...But reading your post reminded me of how the Religious Right is opposing vaccinations against some strains of HPV because it would encourage "promiscuity" :eyes: Do they ever consider that their sheltered little cherubs might contract it from the (unfaithful) husband they saved themselves for?

I agree with you on prostitution too. I view it as sort of a necessary evil. So long as a certain percentage of males believe themselves to be entitled to other people's bodies to relieve their sexual urges, the people who provide the service deserve protection and dignity.

[femrap]

9. If she's a skank, what does that make your husband?

It's always the women's fault. Boys will be boys and the world must accommodate their always surging hormones. I'm sick of it.

The same thing happened to my best friend....her husband cheated on her. He brought home the 'silent disease.' She ended up having a total hysterectomy....ovaries as well. She never really recovered. She died seven years ago this March at the age of 47. As far as I am concerned....if men can't ejaculate responsibly, maybe they shouldn't be able to ejaculate at all. I am sick and tired of letting them ruin women's lives.

[kitkatrose]

11. Well personally, he's a skank too,

and should probably be removed from the use of his equipment for a while. :) But then I'm a mean ol' feminist, as my dad has told me.

I really want to take some of the sting out of slut, skank, etc as applied to women, by applying them to men as well. It doesn't make any sense that a man can be a playa while a woman is a skank for doing the same thing. :mad: Those words should be gender neutral, as far as I'm concerned, although sleeping around safely shouldn't really have too much negative stigma attached (now, cheating, that's something else).

[femrap]

12. I use the term 'male whore' a lot.....

If I just say 'whore,' most people say 'Well, a man can't be a whore.' Well I say he can.

Whenever I can, I try to make men live up to the same double standard that I have to. I am called a 'mean ol' feminist' when I do it, too. For example, an overweight male starts commenting on the looks of a women in a nasty way. I ask this fellow if he keeps mirrors in his house...cuz you look like you're a few months pregnant or have a tremendous amount of gas!

Well....everyone gets all huffy and says how mean I am. Damn it! He was yakking about how nasty that woman was. But that's OK in our culture....after all, that's women are for...eye candy. I swear... our society suffers from FME Syndrome (Fragile Male Ego). Little girls have been taught from early on....never say anything unkind to the little boys and whatever you do, make sure you let him win any and all games....cards, shooting hoops, etc.

No wonder so many guys grow up to be such self-entitled, demanding little snots....we have enabled their pathetic little egos...I really wish the American Psychiatric Association would declare FME Syndrome a neurosis so we could treat it. Somedays I think if our culture recognized this Syndrome, we just might have fewer wars.....? Well....I can dream!

[kitkatrose]

13. One of my favorite books

describes the male ego as 'an enormous penis made of glass." :) Makes me laugh every time I read it. Kind of makes it hard to take guys with fragile egos seriously, which helps my health a lot.

[femrap]

14. LOL....hadn't heard that one. Now when I run into

a FME, I'll think of a glass penis and begin to giggle! Yep...laughter is good for the heart.

[Warpy]

20. The sweet flower of delicate southern womanhood had a word

for that type of male: "whorehopper."

[Warpy]

17. It made him a drunken fool

and he's my ex, thanks

[kitkatrose]

10. In my ideal world, prostitution would be legal.

But this isn't my world, and a lot of stuff needs to happen before prostitution could and should be legalized. For one thing, we need to have male :9 as well as female prostitutes, since I think if it was safe and no stigma was attached to it, women would visit them with the same frequency as men. Two, no pimps and take it off the streets. Each worker is like an independent contractor, with all the rights and such associated with it. Three, mandatory health checks for workers and strict licensing standards. That should help slow the spread of disease, and hopefully everyone will use protection (no sense in trying to mandate that).

Now, I know that this will never happen in my lifetime and possibly not as long as the human civilization exists. There will always (probably) be poverty, inequality, and bigoted assholes in positions of power (especially as long as the patriarchy exists) with us. So my fantasy of a safe, legalized licensing system for prostitution is doomed to stay a fantasy. :(

[PassingFair]

15. Why?

If no "entanglement" is desired, why not just
whack off?

The buying and selling of humans just does
not make any sense.

Sex should be given FREELY, and with love.

Just my opinion. I would not like to see my
daughters become whores.

[kitkatrose]

18. Okay,

as someone who does whack off, sometimes your hand (or whatever) isn't really what you want.

The buying and selling of humans just does not make any sense.

Sex should be given FREELY, and with love.

Yeah, I suppose it should, but when you're horny and single, love just doesn't enter into the equation. Sex can be (I suppose, I haven't done any research on this) a physical need sometimes.

Just my opinion. I would not like to see my daughters become whores.

Well calling people whores isn't really nice. If the industry could be made as I specified, then I probably wouldn't care. It's not the preferred course of action, since I'd rather she be a Nobel winning scientist like her mom will be, but that's her decision. Personally, my daughter could never be a whore to me, no matter what she does and if she's okay with herself, that's all that matters to me.

[PassingFair]

21. "love just doesn't enter into the equation" CRINGE!

Guess "like" doesn't even have to enter into it....


"Sex can be...a physical need sometimes."

I repeat, if you're just satisfying a physical need, why
involve another human being?

"Well calling people whores isn't really nice..."

:rofl:

Sex-workers, "professional partners" (Hahahaha!), WHATEVER;
a whore by any other name would smell as skanky.

I would cut someone some slack for falling down
and making some bad choices, but someone who SELLS
their own body, man or woman, is dehumanizing themselves.
They make themselves a commodity.

Just my feelings on the matter.
Others are free to feel differently.
:)

[geniph]

16. There have been plenty of cultures

who valued the persons - men and women - who were sex workers. There have been sacred temple prostitutes and professional courtesans in many historical cultures. Roman prostitutes had a guild that provided them with protections against abuse (and also prevented unlicensed workers from entering their field). So I think your dream is not impossible, not at all.

The problem with prostitution in our culture is the same problem we have with drugs; it's the criminal element that enters into anything forbidden that causes the issues.

As to conflating sex with love, well, yeah, sex with love is a great thing. But there is nothing whatsoever wrong with sex for its own sake. If people wish to choose a professional partner for sex, and all involved are consenting adults and not committing any crime, I think it's rank puritanism to insist that sex must be devalued if your partner is not your life partner. We have such bizarre hangups about sex in this culture! Why does it have to have all these moral value judgements placed on it? What is wrong with pleasure for its own sake?

[kitkatrose]

19. ....

As to conflating sex with love, well, yeah, sex with love is a great thing. But there is nothing whatsoever wrong with sex for its own sake. If people wish to choose a professional partner for sex, and all involved are consenting adults and not committing any crime, I think it's rank puritanism to insist that sex must be devalued if your partner is not your life partner. We have such bizarre hangups about sex in this culture! Why does it have to have all these moral value judgements placed on it? What is wrong with pleasure for its own sake?

Thank you for saying that better than I could. :toast:

I still have hope for a cultural shift, but I don't think it's happening anytime soon. I think this is a topic for Evoman's "If you were God..." thread. :)

[politicat]

22. I'm gonna steal that professional line...

I've been trying to make an argument for professional experts in sexuality for a long time now. I think it would be advantageous for young ones to have a secure, professional, educated, healthy person from whom to learn about sexuality, rather than fumbling painfully through it on the nasty shag carpet in someone's dank paneled basement rec room. Yeah, learning about it together can be really nice if both can be patient and careful and unashamed, but yeah. Like that's going to happen.

Your professional line cued a thought for me, though. I wouldn't go to an apprentice mechanic to get my engine overhauled, and I check out contractors that work on my house very carefully. I know the farmer who raises my beef and chickens really well, and he's been at it a long time. My doctor has an advanced degree.

So why the hell did I trust my very special, very tender, fragile young body to another teenager as ignorant, impatient and needy as me? What a mistake!! (I did love both of them very much, but really... I don't think we could have been much dumber.)