Modeling--Why?

[kitkatrose]

Bear with me. I’m going to try to be as coherent as possible, but this subject makes me a tad bit angry. A couple of weeks ago ThomCat suggested I start a thread about modeling and such, but I think the whole modeling thing is just a symptom of other things I’ve noticed.

I just wound up my third year away at college and have spent the last couple of weeks being lazy before I have to do a summer of research in the woods (which is more difficult than it sounds). I’ve been watching the TV (daytime and primetime) and have been reminded why I usually don’t. Two shows in particular stand out: Tiara Girls on MTV and Surreal Life on VH1.

Tiara Girls is a show about these teen girls preparing for a beauty contest, complete with coaches, big hair, and glamorous dresses. Now, I’ve been in a teen beauty contest (no, I didn’t win, which has very little bearing on why I don’t like them) and none of the people I knew there went to all the trouble of hiring walking coaches, speaking coaches, interview coaches, etc to win this thing. And the sad thing is, when one of the girls was given sample interview questions, couldn’t answer who the VP was, what some current events were, or something remotely having to do with knowledge of the news or books. Even sadder, she didn’t understand why it was important for her to know these things for a beauty contest, and seemingly in general. The people on the show, from the girls to their mothers and coaches, were taking it so seriously, you’d think someone was trying to become president of the world. What is this obsession some people have with being pretty as a competition?

Next up, the Surreal Life. One of the members for the season was/had been a Playboy centerfold, Andrea Lowell. For her credit, she’s been trying to explain that she’s more than a just a pretty face, a naked body, or a slut, although elements on the show certainly tried to portray her that way (and some of the cast mates viewed her that way). The thing that stuck with me was on the next to last episode when Florence Henderson told Andrea to aspire to be better (or something of that nature), Andrea stated that she had met her aspirations, which was to be a Playboy centerfold. Excuse me, but that seems to be saying that you're only a pretty face. Kinda contradicting your intent about showing the other side of your personality.

These are just two examples, but they play into a vibe I’ve been feeling from the media for the last 3-5 years concerning women and how they should be. Why is it that a slew of the popular women that people can rattle off the top of their heads are either actors or models? Women who are valued for their appearance and not much else. What is the fascination with modeling—all modeling, not just Playboy and appearance focused professions? Full disclaimer, I HATE, with a passion, the modeling industry. To me, it’s probably done more to fuck up women’s self esteem, than just about anything I can think of. Not to mention the other industries that it has spawned, the massive dieting industry, the cosmetic surgery for kicks industry, and possibly some others that I'm forgetting.

On campus, there are gaggles of students (male and female) who would willingly PAY good money to audition to MAYBE walk down the runway for one of our fashion shows. When I was in HS, being a model was looked at as a reasonable life profession, not even thinking about what the turnover in that industry is. What’s the hook for this industry that could sway girls, and women, from pursuing something tangible (like an education, a business, research, etc) to be basically a slave to your appearance, to have every body part criticized, to have to constantly be some putz’s idea of perfect? Is it the (supposed) glamour of the model’s life, the free clothes, high living? Is that really enough to basically surrender yourself, your body, your personality to be another’s ever-changing ideal?

Now, before I get in trouble, if you’ve done modeling, I don’t hate you, I hate the industry. To be honest, I don’t even think I hate that so much as the position it plays in our culture of pushing, at best, an artificial, airbrushed ideal for every woman on society. If it was just pretty pictures being taken, I think I’d be okay; in fact I like taking pretty pictures and being sexy. :) But back on track, what is the fascination with modeling? I’ve never really understood the appeal, based on all the other negatives that came with it? What possible purpose could modeling serve in the greater scheme of things, nefarious or otherwise? I can think of a few, but I'd like to hear some other thoughts on this.

[bloom]

1. "What’s the hook"

It seems like it's pretty similar to Sports Stars - basketball stars, etc.

You have some of them who are interested in an education - but a lot who probably figure that if they can make lots of money by running around and throwing a ball into a hoop (or dressing, preening a certain way) - that what the heck. And there is plenty of status and prestige for those who do it and do it well. I'm sure there are lots of dreamers who wish they could do that for a living but don't make it - who end up doing something else.

It does go to the shallowness of our society that these are the people that many people know about and admire. As opposed to people to excel at intellectual pursuits. It's the whole celebrity obsession. To some extent - there has probably always been some of that to some extent. Pop culture. It seems like it's probably magnified what with TV/movies.

I was noticing a book yesterday that showed an ad from 15+? years ago which reversed the idea of male dominance - so it showed the female model in a dominant position to the male. I've been ignoring a lot of advertising lately - but I get the feeling that that sort of feminist advertising has become less common or maybe not done at all. Unless it's for a feminist publication or something. It is interesting how much advertising says about a culture - what hooks are used to sell things. How women are portrayed. How men are portrayed.

Twisty has a comment about a beer ad:

http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/16/beef-beer-ug/

[kitkatrose]

12. I went there.

That commercial sounds like the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. :eyes: Although the comments page made it all worthwhile. I've never heard of that blog, and will definitely check it out.

I'm sure there are lots of dreamers who wish they could do that for a living but don't make it - who end up doing something else.

Statistics would prove you right, but how many of those people have either seriously postponed their chances of advancing in another career so that they could pursue a pipe dream? And it doesn't help that every recruiting season they hold up these stories of self-made basketball (insert profession of choice) stars who made it to the big leagues.

[ThomCat]

2. I'm glad you decided to post this.

:)

I've done some minor nude modeling back in the day, and I've dated a couple of other people who were artist's models and local models. But otherwise, I'm totally outside the loop. I don't watch tv or read magazines. I rarely ever see the products of the Modeling industry. So this is just going to be my opinion mostly from the outside.

There is an attraction to earning money for "what you are" instead of "what you do." Earning money for what you are sounds like less work. This doesn't mean that models don't work hard, or that they end up earning any real money. I understand taht most work damned hard and earn peanuts. But the perception is still there that it's easier and pays well.

There is also the prestige of being able to earn money just for how good you look. There are bragging rights that go with being able to say, "I'm so beautiful that people pay me to take my picture."

I think people also think there is a lot more prestige or respect that goes with modeling. Beautiful people are more popular, so models must be the most popular. Right? I doubt that people realise that models get treated like perishable, disposable property. Nobody is going to invest time, money or respect in a model that they know they are going to replace in a short time. Everyone except the prospective models seem to realise that models have a very short life-span.

As a related but separate issue is the whole topic of flattery. We're all subject to manipulation through flattery. That makes prospective models very vulnerable to manipulation. What are you willing to do to get that flattery, to keep that flattery, or to convince yourself that you deserve that flattery?

This is a huge topic. I feel like I'm scratching the surface of something huge. I'm sorry if this rambles a bit.

[kitkatrose]

7. Thanks.

There is an attraction to earning money for "what you are" instead of "what you do." Earning money for what you are sounds like less work.

It does, but watching America's Next Top Model dissabuses one of that notion almost immediately, possibly one of the few good reasons to watch it. Why would I want to stand in the same position for hours, while the photographer tries to get the perfect shot, after waiting more hours for my turn, and then if the final copy isn't good enough take abuse about how I need to lose two pounds from my big toe? Not to mention the expendability (why are they recruiting 11 year olds to look like 20 somethings?).

Do people just not think, or is there so much positive (money, fame, stuff) associated with being a "model" (and celebrity too) that one would subject themselves to these conditions? Am I being too harsh and talking out the side of my mouth about the abuse, since all I'm basing it on is a few interviews I've seen over the years?

I don't know, I'm a scientist (almost) by trade and working with agressive wasps all summer in Costa Rica sounds loads more fun than being a supermodel on location for the same time period.

[Warpy]

3. It's like all of showbiz

although the part that demands the least talent and the greatest accident of birth. Still, there is talent involved in walking down a runway without looking like you're walking across a freshly plowed field and having people look at the clothing you're swathed in even more than your face and body. The greatest sin for models is eating. The second greatest is birthdays.

I liken it to show business because the odds and the longevity are the same for most aspirants. A very few extremely lucky people manage to hit the fashion lottery in looks, music, or acting and have a brief career in which they earn an obscene amount of money. Then, if they hang in there, they're off to the lounge circuit in Vegas for a couple of decades until NOBODY remembers who they were and they retire. Most people try to break into the business and are lucky not to starve doing it. Most spend their time unemployed or working for nothing, providing entertainment just to be seen in the hope that something they do catches on. It usually doesn't.

Still, the rewards are SO great for that fraction of one percent who actually make it that it's attractive to many people to spend their youths trying. That trying becomes all consuming, leaving little time or energy for anything else, including knowing who the vice president is or how to register to vote.

Yeah, the industry sucks.

[kitkatrose]

8. I'm not really all that fond of showbiz either.

:)

Seems like most of the model's job could be done by an automated clothing rack. :D Really, it takes some talent to be able to sell clothes that look like you survived a lion attack while being puked on by a newborn monkey.

Still, the rewards are SO great for that fraction of one percent who actually make it that it's attractive to many people to spend their youths trying. That trying becomes all consuming, leaving little time or energy for anything else, including knowing who the vice president is or how to register to vote.

So I guess the question is, how do we get people to understand that the industry is a crapshot on top of a roulette wheel? I ask, because my sister has almost derailed herself for a modeling agency (they didn't call her back, even though they said she'd be perfect since she's going off to college this year--I really don't want to think what would have happened if she had taken them up on their modeling bootcamp) and I'm not sure what will happen if she gets stopped again in college by some agency telling her she's perfect, blah blah blah. And she knows what her chances are, but I guess that plays into ThomCat's assertion about flattery working really well.

[ismnotwasm]

4. My objection, as always

Besides the overt sexualization of these women, who are role models for our young women--Is that modeling tries to tell us what is attractive. So what evidently is still attractive is tall, bone thin women with dead eyes.

Maybe it's the rebel in me. Maybe it's common sense. But I don't want to be dictated to about what I find attractive, or if I myself am attractive, and the precise level of meaning that is supposed to have in my life. That's the part that pisses me off, the marketing.

I do what I call "self annoyance" exercises. My own personal litmus tests. One of the things that annoys me is Vogue magazine. It's annoying for the pages and pages of adds. It's annoying for the "fashions" not only way out of price range for the average women, but unwearable. It's annoying for the "erotica" adds that objectifies mostly females or metro sexual males.
Now, I don't dislike fashion. I like style. I have my own in fact.

It's interesting we tell young women (or men) "you're pretty enough to be a model" or "You should get into modeling" as a goal if they are current culture attractive. We don't tell them, you're so smart, why don't you get a degree in astrophysics, you'd be so good I bet you'd win the nobel prize (a goal probably as remote as actually getting a successful career in modeling, but I digress)

Society seems to feel that an attractive appearance in women belongs to society and is wasted anywhere else. And many women seem to buy into it, or are guiding along into it. There was some pretty MTV woman, Jenny something, who gained my respect because she took a poster of herself, pointed where her "inperfections" had been airbrushed, or covered with makeup. This included pre-period bloat, zits, breasts less than perkey. She pointed out reality.

I know there are many who love clothes, fashion, design, and consider it self decoration, designers try to explore outer limits in fabic, color, light and shadow, accessories. The model, sometimes the catwalk, is the medium in which it's presented. I understand that. It can be art.

But six inch heels aren't art. I don't care what anybody says. Tall, thin dead eyed women, or adult women made to look like neo-Lolita who are modeling in positions apparently prepared to have sex isn't erotica, art or even cute. At least not to me. To me, it's typical sexism. The sexually available female body still in cultural bondage.

[Warpy]

5. My problem last night was cruising plus sized clothing

for women, places that specialize in the stuff, and finding nothing but SKINNY MODELS in the clothes. Hell, I KNOW clothes look good on women who are built like hat racks. They can wear any schmatte and look like they are at the height of style. I want to know how they look on women who are built like ME, over 50 and showing it.

Other than that, I'm perfectly happy to see vapid, skinny little girls have short careers walking down runways like animated clothes hangers. More power to them. Let's just hope they're sensible enough to bank that cash and use it to finance their educations when their looks and figures start to go.

[femrap]

6. I worry about young women who focus so much of their

attention on their looks....what is going to happen to these women when they approach 40? Maybe that's why anti-depressants are such big sellers these days.

I am thankful I grew up in the '60's and '70's when women were encouraged to devote their time to intellectual pursuits. To do this day, I really have no idea about how to apply make-up....so I just do the powder thing so I don't shine too much.

Today's media is absolutely vicious toward women...I rarely watch TV just because I can't stand the commercials. And if I turned on MTV, I'm afraid I would hurt the TV set. Remember...five corporations own the media today...and the CEOs are all white, rich, short, bald boys who want women in their 'place.' Their goal is to make women feel insecure, ugly, fat, unhappy, self-conscious, and silent....this is the way to oppress women....and sell crap that we don't need and never works.

The sit-coms, the advertisements, the dramas are consciously written to put women in their place....No more Roseanne, Murphy Brown, Designing Women, Cybil, The Golden Girls...no more uppity women on TV at all. And why are all the wives on sitcoms attractive and their husbands fat and sloppy? That's a great message, huh? Maybe we could put a sitcom on Lifetime that features a smart, single women and her cat?! ha.

The media today trains men to like women with large breasts, not big brains. And young women go along because there exists no other voice out there. I hate what has happened to our country. It has become cruel and sadistic and waaaaaaaaay too macho. Everything feminine is derided.

[kitkatrose]

11. Oooh, media... grrrr...

When these women approach forty, they'll either be on anti-depressants or having elective cosmetic surgery. One of the nifty things about being black with a strong mother, is that the media images about what's pretty (tall, white, blonde, thin, big boobs, padded butt, blah) have largely filtered out of my concious. Not that black women don't quite have the same problem (we have a different stereotype to live up to as well as trying to be like Tyra at the same time :shakes head: ), but my mother has drilled into me that whatever I think I have may not be enough, so I'm always going to have to have more than whatever ideal is held out there. And since beauty is fleeting, even with surgery, that leaves intelligence.

And great point about the media heads. :grr:

[femrap]

13. Strong Mothers.....

what would we do without them? Strong sisters (not just blood) are what keep me going sometimes.

[kitkatrose]

10. I know. I was looking through Chadwick's

plus sized section, and the one model they deigned to use was probably the same size as my mother, which is definitely at the smaller end of the really artificial 'plus size' category. Personally, I just want the clothing manufacturers to put the bust-waist-hip measurements on the tag and then I won't have to guess so much about what size I wear in what brand.

Let's just hope they're sensible enough to bank that cash and use it to finance their educations when their looks and figures start to go.

Considering the state of our educational system, I kind of doubt that. I don't really mind them playing the system, so much as the system's effect on society. The screwed up ideal of women (and soon men) is really hurting everyone, not to mention the other industries spawned (or helped) by modeling.

[kitkatrose]

9. ....

It's interesting we tell young women (or men) "you're pretty enough to be a model" or "You should get into modeling" as a goal if they are current culture attractive. We don't tell them, you're so smart, why don't you get a degree in astrophysics, you'd be so good I bet you'd win the nobel prize (a goal probably as remote as actually getting a successful career in modeling, but I digress)

This really stuck out at me. My sister and I have been said to be twins, even though we're three years apart (I'm the oldest). We look pretty much alike to other people even though I think we're as different as night and day. But people's first comments to me (of those I know) is usually about my intelligence and how I should be a doctor (don't wanna, I'm going to be a botanist and hopefully get that elusive Nobel Prize :D) etc. However people talking to my sister (who's just as smart as I am) have usually made some comment about her being a model, since she's thin, tall, and has enough boobs. The other half or so tell her to be a doctor as well (can't people have some imagination?) And we're supposed to be twins?

Tyra's show had an episode where she was showing women how to apply makeup (ugh!). So she showed up w/o hers and aside from the fact that I don't find her attractive at all, she REALLY is not a morning person. But that just proved to me that modeling isn't really so much about natural attraction, but how marketable someone thinks you are. I'm going to stop now, because Tyra launches me into a whole 'nother rant. :)

I know there are many who love clothes, fashion, design, and consider it self decoration, designers try to explore outer limits in fabic, color, light and shadow, accessories. The model, sometimes the catwalk, is the medium in which it's presented. I understand that. It can be art.

That would be people taking pretty pictures, which everyone should probably do sometime in their lives.

[ismnotwasm]

20. Make up.

I live in the Northwest and I understand in general the fashion up here is more casual and make up less threatening to the fashion challenged like myself.

That being said, I don't mind make up per se, but I think it looks horrible on most people, at least the full "face". On the other hand, the hospital unit where I work there have been female patients who get very, very ill. And THAT's when you noticed this delicate little eyeliner tattooed on their upper lid. I've seen in in a few women. It adds this pitiful little touch of vanity to women who (at this point) have no way to interest themselves in appearance because of encephalopathy. It touches and saddens me.

Model/Doctor, Like you said, have these people no imagination? I work in a teaching hospital and residents, God bless 'em are NOT my favorite people. I'm sure they go on to better things and personalities once the stress levels fall. Maybe. I could go into a whole tirade about the masculinization of medicine but I won't.

Botany rocks, BTW

[mrreowwr_kittty]

19. Playboy magazine

I remember about 12 years ago how there was a big deal made about Cindy Crawford posing in it. Some writer was commenting about how there were more "supermodels" posing for men's magazines and it was changing the tone of them and wasn't it wonderful because they were classing them up or something. I remember feeling not so sure about that.

I'm not a fan of the Playboy concept to begin with. The idea of gratuitiously displaying women in the nude and listing their measurements next to them bugs me endlessly. It's like they're giving men an authoritative mandate of the exact specifications of what is supposed to make them get hard. After all, a guy might slip up and get turned on by a woman whose waist was over the maximum limit! Can't have that, now. :eyes: But when I think about the times I stole furtive glances at my dad's stash back in the '70s, it seems to me that the women depicted looked a lot more natural and at least a little closer to the average, albeit young, woman than what you see in there now.

But when they started featuring supermodels, plus modelish-looking actresses and such, it raised the bar even higher. I started noticing that guys were rattling off the names of famous models just as easily as women could and that they were clearly becoming the official fantasy. To me, this did not bode well for relationships.


It's amazing to me how many people I encounter who can only be aroused by Barbies and/or Kens. Multi billion dollar industries are built around this supposed male need to be visually aroused by improbably surgically enhanced and hairless women in order to function sexually with their partners. Now the attention of the vanity industrial complex has turned to the male physique with a vengeance, while keeping the pressure constant on us dames. I've got a girlfriend who cannot bring herself to date a man who doesn't have well-muscled arms. It's a requirement for her and, needless to say, has really limited her options.

This crap affects me more than I care to admit but I'm glad that I'm at least aware of the manipulative forces at work on my psyche. I love fashion and prettifying myself but I try not to buy into media bs that tells me I need to look THIS way and have a partner who looks THAT way in order to be fulfilled.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. You see it in the Lounge when young guys

comment about some "hot babe" who is going with a "jerk."

It's as if they assume that just because a young woman looks like a supermodel, she must be desirable. My experience (living in a women's dorm in college) has been that those who spend so much time on their looks and commenting critically on other women's looks are some of the most manipulative, high-maintenance psycho-shrews you ever saw.

[bliss_eternal]

14. I wish I was making this up,....

but sadly, it's true. Apparently the media's job is easier work for some than others.

I tried to engage some (former) acquaintances in conversation--wives of the guys dh grew up with in a rather sheltered, small community. I brought up every media event I could think of at that time, and nothing. It was rather frustrating, as I didn't know what else to talk to these women about. (note--these are the type of women that go on and on, ad nauseum about their children,husbands,their position in the family they married into and of course losing weight--outside of that they have little to say). :eyes:

Anyway, I can't even recall how it came up, but these women could rattle off the names of supermodels at the time, like no one's business. :puke:

Something is really wrong, when women have no clue who Gloria Steinem is--but they know and can recognize Christy Turlington by sight (and think she is the pinnacle of beauty). :eyes:

[kitkatrose]

15. Wow, I have no clue who that woman is.

But then, I watch cartoons most of the time. Slightly off topic, but I've always wondered how they can recruit women (and sometimes I wonder about the men) for talk shows where you're trying to prove who you're baby's daddy is? And the women act surprised when it's not the guy they thought it was. I understand sad, or angry, but unless you spent a chunk of your time in a fog, I would think, you'd remember who you slept with. Just one more avenue to make women out to be sex crazed, men trapping whores, I guess. :eyes:

And something rather scary I noticed in my sister's last class newspaper (the senior special, or whatever) was that when girls were describing where they'd be in 10 years, most said they'd be married with kids. Now, nothing wrong with that, but there didn't appear to be too many people mentioning careers, or anything else. I wonder if that's a reflection of suburbia or something else?

[ThomCat]

16. Planning for careers.

I think that very few kids these days graduate with any kind of plan for a career. The economy just doesn't work that way anymore. Everyone has to go out there hunting for whatever job is available, and they take what they can get.

Even people who go to college rarely get jobs within the field of their degree.

My baby sister is now in college and she wants to be Hillary Clinton when she graduates. (I'm reserving comment on that.) But she tells me that very few of her friends have plans. They'll just find work and deal with it.

So, if high school seniors are listing careers in their 10 year plans, I don't see that as a lack of ambition but as a recognition of the conditions out here.

[kitkatrose]

17. But then, if I couldn't plan (hope) for at least a decent paying job,

then why would I say I'd be married with 3 kids? And it was just the girls doing this. I'd be more inclined to believe that idea if at least some boys had listed it as well, but all the guys had some type of career lined up, or in their head at least, or they'd say "i will have <insert field here> and married with a kid." It was weird.

My baby sister is now in college and she wants to be Hillary Clinton when she graduates. (I'm reserving comment on that.) But she tells me that very few of her friends have plans. They'll just find work and deal with it.

My little sis is entering college this fall and she's bounced around careers at least four times before deciding which school to go to, so I certainly understand the uncertainty. But this other thing seems weird, especially since it's only been three years since I graduated from the same HS and that trend wasn't happening, even though the job market was just as unstable.

[ThomCat]

18. I'm 17 years ahead of my sister

so my understanding of what she and her generation are thinking is entirely second-hand. You've probably got a better first-hand impression than I do.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. America is being deliberately dumbed down

when the front pages of major metropolitan newspapers have the results of American Idol in the headlines and local news stations run "news stories" about upcoming programs on their network, along with 10 minutes of high school sports.

These days, you have to make an effort to be informed. The corporate media aren't going to do it for you. Quite the opposite.

[FloridaPat]

23. $10,000 an hour doesn't interest you at all? Do you have any idea

how fast I could retire with that kind of income? Seeing the world and getting paid to do it and you're not even in the navy. Wearing beautiful clothes. OK, intersting clothes. Picture on magazines and TV. Yeah, I guess there's no good reason to be a model!

[ThomCat]

24. That might be nice, if it was really an option.

What percentage of models make enough money to support themselves just as models? And of those few, what percentage of them make even 1/10th of that?

Holding up Tyra Banks as a reason to become a model is like holding up Bill Gates as a reason to write software. Sure there is an infitesimal chance, but you're far more likely to be working your butt off for peanuts.

[bleedingheart]

25. the Modeling Business makes more money off the "aspiring types"

that is why it is hyped.

You see, there are parents out there with young daughters and even sons who they think they can make rich without having to lift a finger...cuz as we know the American obsession with getting rich quick is amazing.

So...these people pay for gym memberships, false boobs, hair extensions, photo shoots that can cost thousands of dollars to make up portfolios for their "aspiring beauties"...and most will end up with squat.

You see just like the parents who know that junior will make it to the major leagues...these people all have no common sense and they are living in their dream and unfortunately they sometimes mess up their kids because once junior can't be a model or a ballplayer making millions...everything feels like a let down. One guy I went to school with still lives with his parents and is upset that his ball playing career never took off...

So what do you do...??

I say hang up a shingle and become a "life counselor for models" so that you too can reap the cash that the gullible are more than willing to bestow upon you.