It's so pervasive...even here

[VelmaD]

What do you do with something like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3830017#3830234

"Dean is the only MAN in the party"...*sigh*

[MuseRider]

1. *sigh*

Yup. I also get really tired of the "grow a set" or "a pair" or "get some balls".

Courage to me has little to do with testosterone or anatomy. To be fair I will just leave it at that.

I keep trying to say things like "intestinal fortitude" but somehow that just does not do it for some people. It has to be man parts to equal courage. *sigh* again.

[VelmaD]

2. And if we go take him to task...

we'd be accused of flaming or stalking or being too sensitive or something. *sigh*

[MuseRider]

3. I actually had one good

conversation about this and one male poster (I think he was male but who knows now) agreed and used the term after that. Funny, it was Padraig. LOL.

I have not had the time to be fully here the last couple of days so there are many posts in this group for me to read and catch up on but I have to say that those who set it up and worked on the mission statement did a damn fine job. It feels comfortable.

[atommom]

11. It's ironic, too, considering how vulnerable those man parts are in

real life. I'm just saying...

[MuseRider]

12. Very true.

I had not thought of that. Funny isn't it?

[Eloriel]

24. Oh! Ya'll beat me to it and I posted just that before I saw these posts n/

[Eloriel]

23. A friend of mine once pointed out the irony

Men love to talk about "balls" = courage, but their testicles are THE most sensitive and vulnerable parts they've got. :rofl:

And of course, it's true. You wanna bring a man down with the least amount of effort? A teensy bit of pressure applied strategically will render him helpless for a while.

[EFerrari]

30. "Ovarian fortitude" works pretty well.

Even better in most cases, and scares the sh*t out of most male listeners.

:)

[geniph]

4. Someone just today used "old maid" as a pejorative

talking about our more spineless Dems in Congress. That one got MY goat. I see, so now a useless male is an unmarried older female, and that's worse than being a spineless, gutless, useless, lily-livered sack of shit?

[VelmaD]

5. I guess the question...

is what do we do? Maybe we need to come up with some sort of organized response when these things pop up...something that lets them know it is not acceptable behavior bu tin a way that doesn't get us all labeled as humorless, man-hating consors.

[Eloriel]

25. No reason we can 't post questionable thread links here --

the Skeptics Group certainly sends its members out to do battle:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=247x1135


I hardly ever check that thread (this is like the 3rd or MAYBE 4th time ever), but every time I have, there's sure enough at least one thread where they point out there's something they need to go fight.

We can too.

[noamnety]

29. if we posted responses like this

subject line:

repeated offensive phrase in quotes

text is just:

*cough* misogyny *cough*


without any other explanation, would we get the point across without too much derailing? There wouldn't be enough there to start an argument over, we wouldn't be bashing or trolling, but just acknowledging that it's happened again. We could either decide to leave their arguments, if they make any, unanswered, or a different poster could chime in with "misogyny" and nothing else. Would the quantity become enough that people would recognize how pervasive it is?

[Chovexani]

8. "Pink tutu" gets me, too

And even I'm guilty of saying it sometimes. :(

It wasn't until I got into Wicca and I started learning the concept that words have power that I really started paying attention to how language is used.

It's a constant struggle, unlearning this cultural baggage.

[MuseRider]

13. Isn't that the truth?

I catch myself saying things that normally drive me crazy. I am trying to unlearn these things but it is difficult.

[Warpy]

10. That would have been me, and it was

"old maid in pants." That expression means the stereotypical nervous biddy type that doesn't exist terribly often in women but is frequently transferred into male bodies in the Democratic Party. Sorry if the expression offends, but after 20+ years of grass widowhood, I too will answer to the name old maid and by design. I just find the expression useful as a shorthand for, what was it? spineless, gutless, useless, lily-livered sack of shit.

Then again, sacks of shit have their use. They make one's garden grow.

[geniph]

31. I use "jellyfish" a lot these days

I quit using "pink tutu" because it has an underlying homophobia that makes me uneasy. Jellyfish, on the other hand, encapsulates my objections to some of the more spineless gutless lily-livered sacks of shit we have representing us - they have no spine, they have essentially nothing in the way of a brain, they go wherever the currents take them, and they just wander around, eating what comes to them, crapping, and stinging you if you happen to get too close to them.

[Hello_Kitty]

14. I'm not an old maid, I'm a SPINSTER damnit!!

And spinsters are HOT!! :evilgrin:

[Bunny]

6. Aside from "bitch" and ,of course, the c-word, I never really noticed

language and its effects. I said in the porn thread that I'm paying more attention to the topic, and I'm now doing the same with the language issue.

I came of age in the 70's, with Gloria Steinem, MS magazine, and consciousness raising. Some pet issues have stuck with me since then, and some are new to me. Being a feminist on DU is helping me to learn so much, and I'm really grateful for the opportunity to do it - without fighting!

[FizzFuzz]

7. we could come up together with a question for discussion,

something to stimulate some thought, to be posted in GD or wherever on occasion. Kind of a little group project. Part of the "consciousness raising project" would require some of us to participate as reasonable responders--when harassers or dismissers speak up, we would need to respond calmly but firmly. Like turning the question back on them, reflecting it back using a different minority, to highlight the bias in the statement.......that kind of thing.

Because the negative response can be so large, I personally would like knowing that I've got some support if I were to do that. I've done it before, on my own, but without a few other voices to stand with me, that kind of challenge to sexist status quo can get stomped pretty quickly. And I alone don't always have the time to stick in there and hash it out. (not only just time--sometimes its just enraging to face some of the attacks alone)

[beam me up scottie]

9. I like your idea, Fizz, a lot.

I'm like Bunny, I never really noticed all of the subtle misogynist phrases until recently. I get irritated with the "PC Police" at times because of the timing. I, too, would love to interrupt and say "EXCUSE ME? WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY?" and I've done just that, actually many times. Unfortunately that method hurts us more than it helps. Even online you can see the eyes rolling up as they decide that we are all shrieking harpies and we totally miss the point.

Your idea is much better. It is positive and instructive, not critical and not off topic. I believe that most men (and women) on DU would appreciate knowing what power their words have.

True Story: A couple of months ago, I jumped into a thread here that was critical of a comedian who had used the term "Redneck". Now I have always heard that word used to describe country folks, Nascar dads and good old boys, and I also know that many self-described rednecks where I live actually wear it like a badge of honor.
I posted just that and suggested that maybe it is not really offensive anymore.

Then a very intelligent and patient DU member explained to me (it took more than one post, I'm ashamed to admit) that it was indeed offensive. He said that his father was raised in the south and that that word was used to denigrate him his entire life. His father does not watch cable tv comedians or listen to internet radio. His father is also a staunch Democrat.
His father would be hurt if he heard someone using that word.

That was all it took for me.

I haven't used the word since, not even at work where my co-workers jokingly refer to themselves as rednecks.I thanked that DU'er and if I could remember his name, I would thank him again.

I have chided people for using the term "cracker" for the same reason.
If you have to ask if it's offensive, it probably is.
Why use a slur when you don't have to? Are our vocabularies really that pathetic? The thesaurus is your friend. Making up new insults is actually kind of fun in a snarky creative sort of way, you know?

I think that most people on DU are like me, they would want to know.

And I would be glad to join you, just let me know when.
And I also promise to take a valium first so that I won't lose my temper and go into one of Scottie's famous rants...

Really.

[Hello_Kitty]

15. But I live for Scotties rants now! n/t

[FizzFuzz]

17. hee hee!

you ain't no slouch either!

[beam me up scottie]

18. Amen. nt

[beam me up scottie]

20. Thank you.

And they said getting off my meds would be dangerous...
Ha! Just to the OTHER people!

[FizzFuzz]

16. great! Maybe a few people might be interested

That would be great!

I just now posted a remark about a "knocking little old ladies" joke made in passing in a thread about Dean and the need to speak up against the RW hypocrisy. First I made my comments about the point, then added a reply post to mention I was hurt by the old ladies joke. But I have done this before and you're right, it gets lost in the shuffle, comes off as off topic, doesn't really help much. Gets eye rolls.

I like your story about that "redneck" discussion. THAT is dialogue. I've had a couple good ones too, but can't really remember right now. But when actual dialogue happens, its real nice.

[beam me up scottie]

19. sigh...

I can NEVER keep my mouth shut.
But I learned from my mom, the greatest feminist I've ever known.

[Eloriel]

26. Good idea -- and, to repeat myself --

no reason we can't come here to this forum and post links to threads that need the fine hand of several feminists, so whoever's available can go take part and do some edumacating. The Skeptics Group does just that very thing: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=247x1135

[FizzFuzz]

27. OK, here's my most recent response to sexism embedded in language

It got no responses, but it anyone wants to push it, here it is

The "knocking over furniture and old ladies" joke is in the OP. I had some comments on the subject brought up in the post and then put in a separate post about the old lady joke.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3830017&mesg_id=3832087

[libodem]

21. so pervasive even here

it seems to be an uncomfortable subject. No one wants to talk about it. I saw a post in DU awhile back that attacked feminism as a divisive issue.

[Zenlitened]

22. Remember, a few months ago, when Barbara Boxer was leading the charge?

She was "praised" repeatedly for having "balls."

Uh, yeah. If we have to explain why that statement is problematic... :crazy:

[beam me up scottie]

28. This really shows that it's all related:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3843689&mesg_id=3844234