Anyone else freaked out by Bush trying to give Merkel a massage?

[melnjones]

(http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1659972&mesg_id=1659972 if you didn't already see it)

It says so much not just about him but also about our society...way too many people wouldn't think there was anything wrong with it, which pisses me off.

[bliss_eternal]

1. Hey mel--

so glad to see this here...! I was just coming here to post a link. What the hell? Where does this guy get off feeling it's his right to be all touchy feely with this woman? No wonder he and Schwarzenneger are pals. :eyes:

That poor woman's expressions completely say it all. Should we all chip in to get her rabies shots? ;)

[melnjones]

2. lol...rabies shots...

What amazed me most is other media sources and freepers saying she ENJOYED it. So gross.

[bliss_eternal]

4. Seriously...?

:wtf:

...did they say what they are basing that on? She looks seriously disgusted to me (and anyone with eyes, I would think)... What footage are they viewing?

[Branjor]

5. Holy smokes!

If that's what it looks like to "enjoy" it, I would hate to see what not enjoying it would look like.

She was clearly trying to get him OFF of her.

[bliss_eternal]

14. There must be some weird anomaly in their brains

that makes them see such things the opposite of what they are. Partially explaining why so many rape apologists have the attitude of "...she wanted it." They seriously believe that shit. A woman writhing in pain, fear and disgust translates in their ass-backward minds as "pleasure." :eyes:

As we've known all along, they are ALL sick tickets.

[Warpy]

3. Here's the link to a very short video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPArZwLHi2Y

She looks first frightened and then outraged. I understand the German press is having a field day with this one.

I don't have to ask what Stupid was thinking. I think he was acting like a boorish frat boy at a mixer because I think Putin got him drunk and he has continued to drink.

There is going to be diplomatic fallout from this one. You don't paw a head of state no matter how drunk you are, Georgie.

[ismnotwasm]

6. That is just...Gross

And you're right. I don't see him giving Tony Blair shoulder rubs

[Lisa0825]

7. She looked tense, angry, and repulsed.

I don't think anyone really believed she liked it... it's just that delusional 29% who can deny the reality of anything that doesn't support their beliefs.

[noamnety]

8. touch as gendered behavior

"The first thing that caught my attention was the idea of non-reciprocal touching as a gendered behaviour. 'Non-reciprocal touching' refers to instances where one person touches another, initiating the contact and not getting touched back. One of the many behaviours Nancy Henley identified was the extent to which men use non-reciprocal touching behaviour on women. When I say 'use' men are most likely unaware of doing this but, symbolically, it is a physical sign of control and dominance. Henley demonstrates that it is socially acceptable for men to touch women's bodies and thereby exert their will, in a way that it is not for women. Women, including myself, accept this behaviour, which Henley links to our patriarchal disempowerment."

more at: http://www.thefword.org.uk/features/2003/10/body_language_speaks_volumes

[raccoon]

9. Great article. Thanks for the link. nt

[Solly Mack]

10. Disgusted, not freaked

(Some)People think "sexual" harassment is about conveying desire...when, like rape, sexual harassment is about power, control and dominance.

I hear a lot of men saying "you never know what's acceptable to women anymore..the rules have changed"

I tell them back..


"The rules have not changed. The rules have always been the same. Men have ignored the rules because they thought they had that "right." Women are demanding that those rules be enforced."

[noamnety]

17. Thank you

I see a lot of people on DU reacting to this as if it's another example of Bush being outrageously offensive.

The reality is this is the norm in our society. Men feel free to touch grab and grope women on a regular basis. This is not an issue about Bush. This is an issue about men.

And I'd bet any amount of money some of the men on DU who are oh so vocal about it have been guilty of exactly the same actions - but, you know, that's different. That didn't involve a head of state, it only involved a regular woman. So it wasn't offensive.

[cally]

18. A man would be fired for this in the

corporate world. What * did is completely unacceptable in the business world.

I'm curious what the German press is saying about this. Here's a powerful woman being sexually harrassed by *. It belittles her and sexualizes her and makes it harder for her to be taken seriously. I'm appalled by * and the press' reaction. This should be used as a training video for what is sexual harrassment.

[noamnety]

21. I don't think an employee would be fired for this

a single incident like that would normally not be construed as creating a hostile work environment. If the employee complained, the offender would be reprimanded, but it would be far more extreme than any cases I've ever heard of it they were fired for this.

Do you think it makes a difference that she's a "powerful" woman?

[cally]

23. A powerful woman has more resources to fight back

so it does make a difference. When I say someone would be fired, I wasn't thinking of the legal definition and procedures. You are correct that a single incident does not meet the test. What I was thinking of is a large business conference or boardroom. Everyone would cringe if they someone acted this way and would hesitate to promote, hire, or continue working with someone like this. Noone wants to risk lawsuits.

[Solly Mack]

22. I wondered the same thing when reading some of the threads

about it. (How many men didn't see themselves? - because their actions were somehow different to their thinking)

Some of the thinking from the various threads:

- you have to be in a position of power over the woman for it to be S.H.

- you have to do it with the intent of harassing

- you have to have the intent of demeaning/controlling/dominating

So there's the idea there that your intentions matter

Whereas the truth is,bottom line, you have to assume you have the right to touch the woman to begin with - and you just don't.

Sure, some men tell demeaning jokes to women just to get a reaction and that's a more obvious form of S.H. - and it's more obvious about control and dominance since the intent is to make the woman uncomfortable...to use her gender in a negative way in order to demean her

And there's the rapist who engages in S.H. in order to intimidate a woman into sex. Who does use a position of power as a leverage to force a women into a sexual act. And the power/dominant/control factor is obvious in that.

In all those cases there's the more subtle, and I daresay subconscious in some cases, thinking that men just have the right to do all of it. That such actions are acceptable simply because they're men and that's how men behave. (the "it's just our nature" argument)

And if that offends some men reading this...oh well...if you use coercion to get sex (emotional,physical,power-play(boss/worker - bigger/smaller)or blackmail) - You're a rapist. It's really that simple. And in all those cases, it's about power, control and dominance.

* disclaimer for the usual straw-man argument by the defensive needing to lock in on anything but the point - this isn't to say all men are rapists - I'm speaking of men who use coercion and if that's not you, then I'm not speaking of you


In a society that devalues women - and America is such a society - "male privilege" isn't just a handy phrases that speaks volumes. It's one of those "traditional values" we hear so much about. Bush wasn't simply being Bush...he was being a man behaving in a manner a patriarchal society says is acceptable.

Well, it's not acceptable. From anyone.

[politicat]

11. Not freaked, but disgusted, dismayed and utterly annoyed.

What a complete and total dimwit. I hate having a president who needs handlers and Ritalin to make it through a day. He behaved so utterly badly that I can't even start on him. Between the interruptions (also a sign of an attempt to assert control over a woman), the obsession with carving, the utter lack of geographic knowledge, the Tony blair manipulation.... My kindergarten age nephew behaves better in public than did this whoreson hellspawn.

I am so embarrassed to have this idiot representing my country that I want to send personal notes of apology to all of the G8 heads of state.

[femrap]

24. 'whoreson hellspawn'

words to remember....thx.

I wouldn't be surprised if his own parents want to see him gone....I certainly don't want to see him martyred by any means. I worry about this on occasion.

He is heavy into some drugs that shouldn't be mixed with booze...but he does it anyway.

[politicat]

28. My fantasy? He dies like the Sen. in "The Birdcage."

In bed, with a teenage hooker and with a tox screen that would make Keith Richards blush.

I want him gone, and I don't want him martyred.

[femrap]

29. I'd prefer he were in bed w/ Condi...

and I want lots of pictures in the tabloids, too!

Gone, Not Martyed! Sounds like a nice chant...lol.

[CornField]

12. One more example of his true view of women

Remember when he grabbed the woman before the Letterman show and used her shirt to clean his eyeglasses?

[bliss_eternal]

15. The biggest example for me---

was his comments in the Kerry debates about how he feels having women factor so prominently in his life, with his wife and daughters. He stuttered and stammered and had very little to say about them. I knew then, he resents having twin girls and can't relate on any level to women.

This bizarre incident was yet another example to support what I've thought all along.

[femrap]

25. At the end of the 2nd Debate with Kerry....

everyone was coming up on the stage and the mics were still on and Kerry gave the * twins a compliment while speaking to *. * replied, "I keep them on a tight leash." Kerry responded, "I've learned not to do that." And then the mics went dead....and NOT A WORD OF THAT WAS MENTIONED IN THE PRESS THE NEXT DAY.

Did anyone else hear that? The announcers may have been speaking at the time because the Debate was over and family members were up on stage.

[geniph]

26. I actually wrote a blog post on that comment

because I thought it was VERY telling about the differing styles of the two.

[femrap]

30. I was surprised that the Kerry campaign didn't use

*'s comments....but now that I know how screwed up his campaign was, I am not surprised.

IMHO, if the Dems picked ONE issue, just one, that affected women and gave it alot of attention, women would be voting for them like crazy. Like child care....to me, this is such a no-brainer. But it seems that the Dem campaigns don't want to be seen as 'motherly' or as 'whipped' by devoting time and energy to an issue that affects women.

Dem men should stand tall beside their sisters and fight alongside them instead of trying to move more to the center and trying to appear macho and pro-war.

[bliss_eternal]

31. I agree...I also found the lack of response to Kerry's

comments (regarding there being a disparity between what women and men earn) very telling. Shrub stood silent, eyes darting back and forth. :crazy:

NOW and all the women's groups should have been all over that. The fact that Senator Kerry was well-aware of the bush administrations assault on women, and failure to address issues as they relate to women should have been evident to anyone watching. But women's organizations should have reiterated the point LOUDLY and FREQUENTLY.

Shrub (as usual) had a dismissive attitude toward the fact that too many women in our country still don't earn the same as their counter parts. He didn't seem to care at all that many women (and men) are the sole source of provision for their families (as single parents).

Sorry to go off on a tangent. I was really disappointed that this particular point wasn't played up more by the Kerry campaign.

Not that it would have mattered with black box voting or the problems in Ohio...:eyes:

[femrap]

32. Don't worry....I go off on tangents all the time...

with this regime...there are soooo many tangents available.

Here's my tangent....I am reading the most insightful book. I found it at the library by complete happenstance. It's 'The Republican War Against Women.' It was published in 1996 and I wish to Goddess I had seen it earlier. The author, Tanya Melich, was a life-long republican (a moderate...pro ERA and pro-choice). She spells out everything that the republicans did to get the 'white angry democrat men' to vote against their financial self-interests.

I should start a thread about it....cuz it's a great book. Depressing but lets us in on how their misogynist minds strategize.

[bliss_eternal]

33. Sounds like an excellent book---

please do start a post about it. It would make for interesting discussion! :hi:

I was starting a new thread/post earlier, that I accidentally deleted. :banghead: I'm just too hot and miserable(my brain is mush right now) to rethink it and compose it all over again. So it would be nice to have someone else post something fun to talk about. ;)

Maybe if it cools down later, I'll try to rewrite it. Isn't it funny how you aren't really looking, but find relevant feminist books, films, or things in the media that inspire discussion here? I certainly didn't watch the movie earlier thinking it would influence my starting a thread about it.

[geniph]

13. In one fell swoop,

this drunken fratboy dickhead takes a woman who's worked her way up to become the leader of the world's third-largest economy - and demotes her to "just an object." Clearly, in his eyes, women are creatures with lesser stature.

Then again, we're talking about the same clueless fuck that rubs bald men's heads.

You know, a clueless numbnuts at work did exactly the same thing to me once - came up behind me and put his HANDS on my NECK. I bloodied his nose by sheer reflex. (I'm the youngest of 13, and you just DON'T touch me when I'm not expecting it.) I felt slightly bad about it, but what the FUCK was he THINKING?! I kind of wish Merkel had reacted the same way - from the video, she damned near did.

Ick. Ick. Ick. He just reminds me way too much of my skeezy skanky stepfather, someone who uses physical contact to keep people "in their place" - off-balance and uneasy.

[MountainLaurel]

19. I thought about that possibility as well

I have a friend with PTSD issues because of an abusive partner, and if you came up behind her unexpectedly and grabbed her neck, you'd be picking your teeth off the floor.

[BlueIris]

16. This is by far the most bizarre thing I've yet seen him do. Insane.

I reacted first not so much as a feminist, or even a progressive, but as a citizen. What. The. Fuck. lives in our White House?? And what the hell kind of drugs is it on??

[ThomCat]

20. I'm amazed that this isn't a bigger issue.

That's classic demeaning and harrassing behavior. They're not close friends, and that wasn't a private setting, so it clearly, obviously wasn't appropriate. It was an attempt to belittle Merkel, as a woman, into shutting up and going along.

[femrap]

27. Taylor Marsh over at Firedoglake has a big

discussion about this....some good reading. Even the WSJ attacked her for her comments about * and the groping. He's a Groper not a Decider.

Edited to add the link:
http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=24278