Can someone please explain to me in a reasonable manner why it is

[efhmc]

okay to use anti-woman epithets on DU? They can say that these terms are gender neutral but to me they are and always will be based on the subjugation and denigration of women.

[gaspee]

1. Because

We're squashing the poor widle mens freedom of speech if we ask them to have some fucking respect!

Deep breath... deep breath... I am so angry in general at the kind of crap women are supposed to put up with. And if you don't, you're shrill or a harpy or, heaven forbid! REPRESSED.

And watch out for all the "but I'm not like that* whingers who are about to pile on.

The men on the left suck as much as the men on the right when it comes to respecting women as human beings, but they don't admit it and get very angry when you call them on their bullshit. Hell, they don't even *see* the shit they do as being insulting to women. I think that may be the worst part.

ETA...

And I just love when the best insults they can fling all involve insulting women. Like calling other men pussys because didn't you know that being a pussy is about the worst thing a guy can be? Or calling women whores or bitches. It's lovely, isn't it?

I try to interact with as few men as possible these days. I'm just so tired.

[efhmc]

2. Sorry. I did not mean to bum you out. I remember that I was taught that

name calling was a sign of bad manners, a weak intellect and a very restricted vocabulary. We go downstream, trying to teach people a different way or thinking and being and we find a a "liberal" refuge and then we find that our "liberal" refuge is full of folks who think that words and phrases such as "bitch, whore, bitch-slap, pussy, etc" are generic and do not reflect badly on women in general but only on the individual person. That statement is a harmful lie and demeans us all. When we use those words, we lessen all the women in our society. Words ARE important and they do count and they do harm.

[gaspee]

3. I think I read

The thread that made you ask this. That thread and the one about the gang rape posing as ad copy is pretty much what bummed me out, not you.

I've been reading here a long time, only started posting in the past year or two and it just kills me to see how little respect there is for women on a liberal board.

[efhmc]

4. Many times there are just the most backwards little kids with no thoughts

beyond what they think is common liberal ground. I usually ignore them and go on to other things but tonight I had a "trying to enlighten the hordes" moment. I am better now.

[Lars39]

15. It comes from the top down.

The day management decided 'bitch' was acceptable was a green light to many here. :(

[Branjor]

17. Yep....

It's because they're sexist bigots, including the management.

[ThomCat]

11. I'm very sorry.

Really. As a guy I wish I had some way of stopping other guys from being sexist bigots.

The language wars will continue. I don't know if ever really win. But we will convince more people that sexism is wrong, and we will also open some people's eyes about how common sexism really is.

[lukasahero]

12. Thanks ThomCat

I can't tell you how wonderful I think you are. You're responding to a post that doesn't use the obligatory "some" when talking about men and rather than jumping on the "you really should qualify your comments" routine so commonly seen, you simply say sorry. Even though you do not participate in the behavior. Just about makes me cry. Guys like you give me faith.

:hug:

[ThomCat]

13. It always bothers me when people demand to be recognized

as exceptions. It's a counter-productive distraction. We all know what the issues are and what we're up against. Whether or not anyone is an exception is irrelevant to the larger struggle.

Besides, we're all part of groups we can't control but we're still members, and we still have to take responsibility as members of those groups.

I really appreciate your respect. I'll try to keep earning it. :hug:

[efhmc]

22. There is really only one way to speak about other humans,

no matter how much we hate what they represent and that is with respect. Anything else diminishes us as fellow humans.

[noamnety]

5. This was a particularly rough day on DU

If my work environment was like this, I am pretty sure I'd have grounds for a hostile work environment complaint, and I don't get why it's acceptable here. Or maybe I don't get why I'm here, at the moment.

It's a shit situation. I can either retreat to my tiny zone of bloggers who ensure their sites aren't hostile to women, or I can head out here to try to cut some paths through the jungle. I have a ton of respect for some of the voices that have been strong and clear here. And I am so incredibly frustrated by reading well thought out posts that put a human face on the problem, the voices that say "here is why this is hurting women" - only to be followed with mocking and bullying and no real point, other than trying to score points.

[efhmc]

8. Your description is so right on target. There seems to be so little thought

involved in many responses. It is as if the entire discussion is about counting coup, instead of trying to think about or even feel what the poster may be trying to say.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

6. Some of them think being "pro-choice" confers blanket immunity

And we uppity women oughtta have more gratitude toward them for that. The worst ones in that regard are the porn-ophiles. Because they so generously deign to allow us reproductive freedom, the least we can do is indulge their need to have images of exploited women produced for them.

[efhmc]

9. I had a running battle about that one and said that I had never viewed

porn and I never will. At that point, I then had no right to an opinion. I do not watch movies about physical abuse either. Does that give me no right to an opinion on that subject either?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

14. He's using lame false equivalence logic

What I do with my uterus has no effect whatsoever on him so he really isn't entitled to an opinion over it. On the other hand, pornography has (proven) far-reaching effects on people whether or not they have anything personally to do with it. Which is not say it should necessarily be banned outright but I damn sure have a right to an opinion about it.

And as far as your never having watched porn goes, while you may not have ever deliberately sought it out, the cultural landscape is so saturated with its imagery these days that you probably have been involuntarily exposed to some forms of it. It's downright unavoidable. :puke:

[VelmaD]

7. the simple answer

...the owners of the site are men. The final decision authorities on this are men...and like men everywhere they have little or no incentive to see sexism. And even less incentive to do anything about it.

Men on the left are even more infuriating to me than men on the right. At least the men on the right are upfront and in your face with their sexism. You know that they're mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging morons so you don't expect anything better from them. With men on the left, who at least pay lip service to equality, it's like a sucker punch in the gut every time.

I'm getting to the point where I almost wish I was hard-wired to switch teams. I'm that tired of dealing with men.

Though men are not the only problem. No matter how egregious their behavior, there will always be at least one woman on this site (and on the left) who will agree with them. Give them cover. And as long as they can find one woman to agree with them then they don't have to even pretend to listen to any other women. Those women piss me off as much as the men do.

[efhmc]

10. On the site where I was (I thought quite gently) taking someone to task

about calling a woman a whore, I was told that that was her nickname. I can tell you right now that if I used a racial slur and gave as an excuse that it was okay because that was his/her nickname, I would be banned and would deserve to be banned. The poster informed me that since she was a woman, she had the moral "high ground" on the subject, an odd choice of words at best. I still have and will always have trouble with the anti-female words that are used here regularly. Even though I am repeatedly told that these words are not "gender specific" and we have to allow freedom of speech, I still view them as harmful. The difference between using the few male gender specific nasty name and those that denote women is the difference between having been under the yolk of men for thousands of years in all aspects of life and in being free. It is the difference between being able to decide what you can do with your life, whether you can be educated, when and where you can go, what you can earn and what you can inherit, etc. The list is endless. I do not expect the most "enlightened" male to understand this just as I cannot understand what people of color go through. However, I do try to change and to listen and to be respectful and those are the qualities that are missing here at DU and that is a dire shame.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

18. There are several women here on DU who call themselves feminists and spend more time

haranguing WOMEN (specifically those who post in this group) than they do men spewing sexism like kettles. That I don't understand at all.

[CornField]

16. Just wanted to add this is what ticked me off about AC's comments

It wasn't that she (Coulter) referred to Sen. Edwards as a gay man... it was the fact that she took a not-so-nice term for gay man and managed to warp it into something even more sinister by implying that "normal" people would never want to be one.

[Kerrytravelers]

19. And if you dare mention it, you are called the speech police.

But, if one were to use "fagot" then, of course, they are told how hateful that word is. So, then, why aren't the same people concerned about the words that bother women?

Ugh. I get so tired of the pervasive attitude, too. I have just grown tired of objecting because I often feel alone.

[Scout]

20. why aren't the same people concerned about the words that bother women

excellent question!! and I bet we know the answer, three guesses and the first two don't count...

[efhmc]

21. My guess is because as people without penises we do not

count as total humans. Enlighten me. Am I close? Did I get it right?