Imus and the Nappy-Headed Hos

[Morgana LaFey]

Is anyone else just a might bit disgusted that people have no problem seeing -- and complaining about -- the RACISM in that but no one bothers or minds the SEXISM in it?

The sexism seems invisible to people, or entirely okay. Or something. I just responded in a thread somewhere -- GD or GDP or somewhere.

I'm not comfortable pitting one form of bigotry and hatred against another, but then I'm not the one doing it, am I???? Why can't people see it all? Why can't people OBJECT to it all, and care?

Very discouraging.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

1. I'm with you

Imus's comment was borne of sexism more than racism, IMO. The women on the Rutgers team didn't present a pleasing appearance to him and his merry band of misogynistic asswipes. Western beauty standards are racist as all get out, so of course non-white women are less likely to be able to comply with them. But if that team happened to be mostly white women who weren't appropriately sexbot-ish enough, Imus would have had something nasty to say. No one would have noticed. And if Imus had managed to avoid racism while denigrating the appearance of the black players, again no one would have noticed.

[gaspee]

13. Yeah

If they were all white, he would have called them bulldykes or something of the like.

Everytime I think maybe men aren't so bad, something like this happens. What this episode has taught me is that men think it's perfectly acceptable to call accomplished young women hos. Because to them, that is what you are.

Don't even get me started on the Duke case. 'Cause don't you know those fine upstanding young men were just minding their own business when a lying whore of a cunt molested them! She just showed up at their party and started taking her clothes off for 25 men for no reason. it's not like they *hired* her or anything. And those drunk men at a frat party would never do anything inappropriate to someone they think of as not human when they're drunk, now would they?

Do I really need a sarcasm tag here?

I've been reading on DU since 2002 but didn't really start posting until last year. I think I've had enough. I'm segregating myself from men because I just can't take it any more.

Only problem is, they come and invade women's space with the "what about the poor mens!" whining.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

14. That's why this DU group was created

Male posters are certainly welcome here but trolls are not. Some of the stuff I read in the general threads boils my blood.

[ThomCat]

2. Even many dems approve of prejudice.

Few people would admit it, but many people are comfortable with prejudice. You're doing the right thing my breaking that complacency and challenging them.

I'm not discouraged, because I know there are good people here. Someone always steps forward to raise these issues. You're one of those good people.

[Morgana LaFey]

3. Oh, you sweet thing

:loveya:

You sure know how to make a feminist feel comforted.

[ismnotwasm]

4. The Spring Journal of Hypatia

Ironically is devoted to racist issues as it relates to white feminism. "The Reproduction of Whiteness, Race and the Regulation of the Gendered Body" Some great essays in there.

If color weren't involved, no one WOULD care about the word Ho. (I believe that's one of the terms we're supposed to "lighten up" about)


Black feminism is entire branch of feminism because of racism. I attempt to stay aware of my own white privilege because I can't fight the inner minds of closet racists as well as I can confront the obvious, but one thing I can do is challenge myself. This issue is closer to me than ever because my daughter married a black man. They are planning on having children. What if she has a daughter? My daughter who has a white son, was not quite prepared for the reaction her little family gets. She chooses to be amused, because it's easier to laugh than cry. (Plus she spent 9 years in the military and can verbally eviserate anyone she needs to with style)

Imus couldn't have been a bigger asshole. (Well yes he could) He got a two for one. He will NOT apologize to ALL women for using the word Ho, now will he? Even his apology is racist and sexist. And clueless.

I don't believe you're pitting one against the other, Imus did that-- society does that-- by continuing to accept this bullshit, usually in the name of "Not being politically correct". I could puke.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

5. 'Politically Incorrect' is nuthin but a pseudonym for asshole

Rush Limbaugh and Jimmy the Greek got fired for denigrating AA males. As they should. But it's still okay to dis women of any race. Two week suspension is all Imus got. And only because of the racism. That's the definite sense I get from all the coverage on it. I guess there's some kind of free pass for only insulting women. And you're right, Imus is clueless when it comes to the misogyny. It's his gawd given right to make comments about the appearance of any women in his line of sight. He temporarily forgot that using the racist slurs would get him into hot water. If he'd just disparaged them as women, he'd have gotten away with it.

[melnjones]

6. my first thought too

You might notice that the other guy he was talking to called them ho's first, adn Imus just added to it, but no one is angry with what's-his-face.

[Katherine Brengle]

7. On another board earlier, a woman posted that "some people are even complaining

about the "hos" part specifically" - I was absolutely disgusted. I didn't even say anything bc I was so blown away.

[SemperEadem]

8. after all, they were called "ho's" before he used the qualifier of

"nappy-headed" the second time around.

Those young ladies are someone's daughter. There is nothing that leads any sane, reasonable and rational person to believe that they deserved to be ridiculed and degraded by two middle-aged, addle-brained assholes. NOTHING. Anyone giving them a pass will never in a million years understand WHY what they said is intolerable. It wasn't a joke. A joke is funny. This wasn't. It was slanderous and a slur against the character and esteem of these women who neither Imus or his sidekick even know. It is a kick to the belly which they will not get over for a long, long time. It sets up the future women's basketball program at Rutgers to be pointed out with this derision by ignorant people for a long, long, long time to come everytime they are on television or make the news with their spectacular playing--and everyone knows it. This is the unspoken asterick next to Rutger's Women's Basketball. If someone cannot see the far-reaching tentacles that that kind of mean-spiritedness generates, then they are lost.

And people talking about 'redemption' are sick in the head. Like Al Sharpton said "people are confusing redemption with amnesty". Redemption is appropriate after the first infraction, not the 8th. No, he needs to sit with the shame of his actions and feel it. He needs to deliver up a pound of flesh for this one because he's done it too many times before, has made noises which sounded like he was sorry and would never do it again and went ahead and did it again. Either he's senile or he's insincere--neither of which entitles him to a reward of continuing to abuse federally regulated airwaves with his malfunction.

Thankfully, Staples and Bigelow Teas have pulled their advertising from his show. Frankly, NBC and CBS radio need to be brought to an understanding regarding keeping him on the air.

[SemperEadem]

10. Add Proctor and Gamble to the list of advertisers who pulled their advertising from his show

they should pull it from NBC altogether and see how fast they can his butt.

[Morgana LaFey]

16. Thanks for the Sharpton quote

and so true!

"people are confusing redemption with amnesty". Redemption is appropriate after the first infraction, not the 8th.

So true.

And I really have to say how much I have appreciated HIM clearly identifying the sexism and sometimes nameing it first -- often naming it first as the problem.

[Princess Turandot]

9. I will probably not articulate this well...

an advance warning!

I was trying to think of what an equivalent slur might have been uttered by Don Imus or someone similarly inclined, if the team that he was looking to 'dis' was a mostly black male sports team. The only phrase that I could come up with was 'nappy-naired n***etc.'

Now, I don't think that anyone broadcasting on a national network in 2007 (as opposed to a Friends of Aryan Nations podcast) would ever be willing to commit permanent career suicide by uttering such a phrase, unless they were under the influence of heavy narcotics or falling down drunk a la Mr. Gibson. It's such an outrageous notion that I can't imagine it.

OK, so what else might he have called a male sports team: a bunch of nappy haired whats? Pimps? Bastards? Plug Ugly Bastards? The only thing close that I could come up with was 'monkeys' and honestly, I only thought of that because of a subthread somewhere on Howard Cosell in the 1970's (I think) referring to a football player who had just made a very long running gain as a monkey, in some context. Just about anything else I could think of sounded mostly just stupid. Talk jockeys like Imus and talking heads like Ann Coulter want to shock & offend in ways that they, deep in their idiotic minds, think of as 'clever' rather than as just stupid.

OK, so what if this team was comprised mostly of white women? I can easily imagine any number of words preceding 'dyke' in a throw away insult since 'dyke' is a word used to demean women who do not conform to someone's notion of the feminine, including female athletes who have developed their physical strength characteristics. 'A bunch of ugly dykes who will never get laid.'

I am not dismissing the fact that calling them 'nappy haired' was also both insulting and racist. But in my opinion, the word that he 'wrapped' his 'clever' crack around was 'ho'. He could just as easily referred to them as 'nappy haired' dykes but the fact that they were mostly black gave him the opportunity to be even more 'clever' in his own mind, using a rap-slang insult.

As an aside, the rap music related sub-threads are also very depressing. It's perfectly okay for a black recording artist to call women a 'ho' because it's a black to black thing. (Or I assume that is the logic since those discussions generally devolve to it being okay for blacks to call other blacks by the 'N' word, which then jumps to that not being the same as the epithet being uttered by a non-black. I don't know if I've seen an explanation of why all black women should be called whores.) And I imagine that it's also perfectly okay for Eminem to do the same. The first group must be referring exclusively to black women and Mr. Mather's to white women, so that their lyrics remain within their acceptable pool of whipping-girls.

Meanwhile, on a bit of a tangent, Ann Coulter made a crack recently along the lines of 'Africans just can't get anything right. Look how long it is taking them to kill off every man, woman & child in Darfur.' Barely a blip on the screen for a comment mocking the deaths of hundreds of thousands. But I guess it matters much less because they are too dead to be insulted.

[SemperEadem]

11. The transcript of the interaction

The actual comments are:

"IMUS: That's some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos and --

McGUIRK: Some hard-core hos.

IMUS: That's some nappy-headed hos there. I'm gonna tell you that now, man, that's some -- woo. And the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute, you know, so, like -- kinda like -- I don't know.

McGUIRK: A Spike Lee thing.

IMUS: Yeah.

McGUIRK: The Jigaboos vs. the Wannabes -- that movie that he had.

IMUS: Yeah, it was a tough --

McCORD: Do The Right Thing. { Note: No,the movie was School Daze, but far be it from any of them to know Black Films--and this scene was in context to the whole movie)

McGUIRK: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

IMUS: I don't know if I'd have wanted to beat Rutgers or not, but they did, right?

ROSENBERG: It was a tough watch. The more I look at Rutgers, they look exactly like the Toronto Raptors.

IMUS: Well, I guess, yeah.

RUFFINO: Only tougher.

McGUIRK: The Grizzlies would be more appropriate.
--------------

Let's understand that the first salvo launched was at the entire team, but then they decided that because Rutgers' team of 10 women had 8 African American women and they didn't give Imus and his boy a woodie, then they all were butt ugly and deserving of being ridiculed just because they weren't 'white and cute' like Tennessee's Lady Vols. So what? The Lady Vols are fuckable? Is that his message? That's what they are reduced to being? A sex object for old men? It is a despicable display of sexism and too many are willing to give these assholes a pass because they, too, think the same way and don't appreciate being reproached because they have not been taught that it is wrong to objectify women.

It amazes me how many people, mainly men but some women, too, want to give Imus a pass and want to excuse what he did by saying "rappers do it too" or "Ann Coulter has said worse". One has nothing to do with the other.

[Princess Turandot]

12. I'm a little confused? Are you suggesting that I am dismissing this?

when you say "It amazes me how many people, mainly men but some women, too, want to give Imus a pass and want to excuse what he did by saying "rappers do it too" or "Ann Coulter has said worse". One has nothing to do with the other."

I don't think rappers lyrics excuse Imus at all; I also don't excuse rappers' mysogynstic lyrics under the guise that it's
some sort ot black to black thing. The continuing of the transcript makes it even more clear that they were demeaning these
young women as women by comparing them with a male basketball team with names like Raptors and Grizzlies.

I mentioned that it troubles me that Anne Coulter's statement insulting dead and dying black people in Darfur had raised no outrage despite mocking a real tragedy. It came to my mind in the sense that no one raised a ruckus about it yet produced endless threads saying the same crap about Imus. Recent posts abt Darfur have dropped like stones in the endless Imus threads. I indicated that it was someone off topic but I felt like bringing it because it is such a calamity which now involves mostly highly vulnerable poor black women.

[bliss_eternal]

18. Hi Princess Turnadot...

I wanted to comment on a part of your post. Black men calling women ho's in music is NOT ok, even though it's seen as "within the community" or a "black on black" thing. I've watched many interviews with black women (and even some men) saying that the rappers are wrong for doing this and their music shouldn't be purchased, supported, etc.

I just watched an MSNBC interview on-line today where Maya Angelou likened Imus's comments to those made in rap music by the rappers and I agree with her 100 percent. It sets a very dangerous precedent and always has. It's like Dave Chapelle playing fast and loose with the n word. Well, when the Kramer guy said it--the first thing many said was "what's the big deal when blacks use the word for themselves." The big deal is that an entire group of people should not be held to the standards of a few, who apparently don't know any better--or don't care.

Sure there are some in and out of the black community that seem to think rap is just fine and dandy. For example, Bill Maher :eyes:--who I've heard praise rap and hip hop. But this is a man that doesn't hold a high opinion of women in general, so what can we expect with him? He also thought the treatment of Imus was too harsh, btw. (So glad I stopped watching his show). But I don't believe that such examples are representative of the majority, at least not from what I've seen.

:hi:

[spooky3]

15. Agreed. I also appreciated that the coach, on Olbermann's show,

repeatedly pointed out that the remarks were sexist.

A sore point (one of many) with me is that the only thing that leads some men to "get it" is when they are asked, or ask themselves, "what if this were your (my) daughter?" It should not be necessary for them to be personally victimized (through their daughter's being attacked) in order to understand that SOMEONE is being victimized and that that act is wrong and they should object to it. That's the typical RW lack of empathy at its heart, but unfortunately, I see a lot of non RWers engaging in it. And, what about the women whose daddies are not around to react to this angrily and "protect" them? An attack on any human being because of her gender is an attack on all women. The Rutgers women were the most direct targets, but all women were targets.

[Morgana LaFey]

17. Yes, absolutely

The coach is magnificent, btw, isn't she?

[spooky3]

19. yes she is. And I hope she wins the championship next year.

[Lost-in-FL]

20. I am with you...

Watching Bill Maher talking about the incident made me realize how many people just don't see the connection between sexism and Imus comments. I was so disappointed at Maher, that he only focused on why African Americans could make racists jokes about white and not whites. I thought that was a bunch of crap. That's like comparing (excuse the clique) apples and oranges. He was too blind to see how Imus comments were more about sex than race.