I'm not saying those Duke lacrosse players were asking for it or anything but...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

What were they doing inviting strange women into their house like that? And they were drinking too! Boys can't be too careful these days, what with women and their natural urges to falsely accuse nice guys of rape. They probably tempted that woman. They probably wanted to be falsely accused but now they regret it. I'm not blaming them or anything, I'm just trying to help. Guys need to take responsibility for their own part in a situation.... :sarcasm:


I just had to get that out here. I'm still furious because last night on my local lefty radio station, some wingnut called in wondering why we progressives weren't as offended for those poor Duke boys as we were for the Rutgers team. And you know what? The host, who I normally think is a doll, agreed with him! :banghead:

Thanks for letting me share. :hi:

[ismnotwasm]

1. Oh yeah, those poor white, male "victims"

The entire situation stinks.

[bliss_eternal]

2. No, thank YOU...

for sharing. I appreciate seeing this. I came here hoping to vent a bit myself. After seeing thread, after thread in GD calling the girl "evil" or asking how ever will those poor boys get their lives back, I feel ill. :puke:

How horrible...an attorney heard a woman say she was raped and chose to actually take her seriously and (gasp) prosecute. What kind of a sick world do we live in, where women can say they were raped and people actually take it seriously? ...what a travesty of justice. :eyes: Don't they know they are supposed to immediately distrust her? Strippers are slutty, no doubt about it, and how anyone would take her word over the words of those well bred, wealthy boys from good families is completely beyond me. I'm shocked and sickened by this whole thing. (sorry...i forgot to add :eyes:)

I'm so glad I don't have any children, particularly not daughters. I mean the shame I would feel knowing someday she may be raped or worse, she could SAY she was raped and someone will actually LISTEN to her and try to PROVE it. I just couldn't live with that. :sarcasm:

:hi:...backatcha'!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. I know! It's like they've been transformed into pillars of society

These are the same little darlings who, if I remember correctly, were captured on cellphone camera making denigrating and racist remarks toward the dancers (not sure about that though). One guy had written an email where he openly fantasized about killing a woman after he sexually assaulted her. Real nice boys, huh? And you know, nothing says "future leader" like hiring women to get naked and humiliate themselves for your amusement. When the woman who shows up to perform is clearly intoxicated, doesn't it just add that extra special touch of class when you let her do her act anyway?

Poor, traumatized babies my ass. Fuck them. The woman who accused them is the one who really had her life ruined, long before she met them. I can only imagine what kind of hellish existence she's had at the hands of assholes her whole life. And even if those boys didn't rape her, she was a human toilet to them. It's very telling that the DA's office isn't even considering prosecuting her. I just hope she gets some help and support, finishes her degree, and gets out of that awful life.

[bliss_eternal]

4. Preaching to the choir friend...

You won't find one person recalling that information on these boards. Not one.

There will alway be the "boys will be boys" arguments here (on DU), all over the internet and society at large that dismisses their transgressions. But her....well of course SHE'S a whore, she's black after all.... and a stripper. :eyes: Surely women that take their clothes off for a living do so because they GET OFF on it, because they WANT it.

We've heard it all before.

The whole double standard...(sigh)

[spooky3]

5. And wasn't one of the convicted of assault in Washington DC?

I thought he had gotten into a fight outside a bar or something like that. That's why I was surprised when I saw that someone claimed the university report on the incident claimed they had never been in trouble.

[MountainLaurel]

18. He and a buddy were gaybashing

Outside a bar in Georgetown: http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1091879/

[Morgana LaFey]

6. Oh, I'd forgotten about that

Eewwwww: One guy had written an email where he openly fantasized about killing a woman after he sexually assaulted her.

OMG. I'd forgotten about that.

[gaspee]

9. This is the part that gets me

People were so mad when this whole thing started, before anything came out, that she was being taken seriously. Instead of the default assumption being this could have happened, the default assumption was -- "there's no way those fine young men did this!"

And people wonder why rapes aren't reported.

I actually believe they assaulted her. Why? Because I know lots of men like these boys. I think they probably didn't rape her, at least not the legal definition of rape. Most likely they did something vile to her and she thought the only way they could be punished was for her to accuse them of rape. Of course she forgot that rape is the only crime where the victim (not that she is or isn't in this case. Most quantify that before the defenders of all men show up) ... where was I... rape is the only crime where the victim has to prove their purity. When someone is robbed, they aren't asked why they were wearing a 500.00 watch of 500.00 shoes out in public! What are they, stupid, to tempt robbers like that!

We'll never know the truth in this case. What I think is pure speculation, but after seeing both the accuser and the accuseds history, I think it probably falls somewhere in the middle. They did something so vile and disgusting to her that she thought the only way for them to pay was for her to accuse them of actual rape.

Like I said, pure speculation. One of the things that soured me on DU awhile back were the threads on this case. Before *any* evidence was there to even hint that she was less than completely truthful, she was being attacked. It was a stark reminder as to how women who report rapes are treated.

[bliss_eternal]

10. I soured on DU prior to what you speak of...

...having had far too many arguments with people apologizing for men that tried to sleep with children--but that pushed me over the edge (the anger that her claim was taken seriously).

The racist comments because of her ethnicity, people's assumptions that she was nothing--based on being a stripper, the comparisons to the girl that tried to "shake down Kobe Bryant" because she knew he had money. It was ALL so sickening and horrible.

What's worse? I've seen alleged women defending Imus and asking what he said really required termination, because they have distanced themselves from his comments because of their ethnic specifications. That is disturbing. I mean, if you can't get behind firing his sorry ass because he demeaned an entire race, can you not feel some outrage as a woman?

(Most women that post in feminism and women's rights I've seen upset about both). Seeing women that aren't upset about either aspect is downright confusing. :crazy:

[Name removed]

17. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

7. That is an awesome post.

It's very sick how those guys are now being elevated to something near sainthood.

It's very possible (and I think likely) that they attacked that woman. I find it very unlikely that she would manufacture all of this. It's more likely that the charges had to be dropped because of poor management of the case, combined with the effects of trauma making her testamony less than ideal.

[mzteris]

8. What really disturbed me

was the behaviour of the AG.

He has NO RIGHT and absolutely no legal authority to declare "those boys are innocent". He doesn't know. He wasn't there.

He seemed smarmy to me.


I've tried to maintain a position of neutrality throughout this whole thing. Not casting judgement on either party - preferring to have it determined in a court of law.

Well now that ain't gonna happen.



Did it happen?

I don't know.



COULD it have happened?

Absolutely, IMHO.



Was there anything fair about this ordeal to any of the parties involved?

No.



Does the average poster in GD have gd clue?

Nope. Not one.

Their preconceptions/biases color their every thought.

[SemperEadem]

11. the difference between the lacrosse players and their victim--

if the tables were turned:





at least a mob didn't storm the jail where they were kept and take them out and kill them before their innocence was established fact through a trial.

[mzteris]

12. excuse me, but

"their innocence was established fact through a trial."

this is not a true statement.

There was NO trial. There was no "innocence established."

At the most we know there was not enough conclusive evidence to go to trial. According to the AG anyway. Who, of course, is completely unbaised.

[SemperEadem]

14. exactly my point

in lynchings, there never was a trial--the difference between the lacrosse players and those who were lynched was that an angry black mob didn't break into the jail and drag the lacrosse players out to the nearest tree and lynch them.

[ismnotwasm]

13. Naw.

Using Koby Bryant as the first of several examples that pops up. Woman are the sluts, you're obviously forgetting. We ask for it by being strippers, sex workers, walking down the fucking street, going up to motel rooms remember?

The mind set goes like this, in case you need to remember;

It's our fault. Men NEVER hire strippers and say, gee what a whore, think I'll use her any way I feel like it. Especially if she's a drunken whore. That never happens. Not even on a regular basis, like every single fucking day.

Black women are NOT sexualized and animized by racism. That's a myth. Color had nothing to do with her being considered even more of a total slut who asked for it. Plus, since she was so obviously wasted, and crazy, she must of been lying her ass off, ha ha. There is no possible way she was a victim here. No sirree. Those pleasant young men where just having a good time, the stripper was getting paid, what's the harm? There is no way any type of sexual assault happened in a bathroom or anywhere else, and if it did, those young men had not one thing to do with it, and more ever, knew nothing about it.

Women are treated in a fair and liberated manner sexaully, rape and domestic violence statistics are exaggerated and MenGetBeatToo you know.





:sarcasm:

[ThomCat]

15. I've come back to read this thread repeatedly

and I've even shown it to some of my non-DU friends.

You are all awesome! I love reading the opinions on this forum, and the way you all put things in perspective.

I just thought I'd share that.

[Morgana LaFey]

16. I for one think you're pretty awesome, ThomCat

Thanks for being here. I hope your friends were impressed and/or educated as a result.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

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[OzarkDem]

20. I found it puzzling

that these guys, who one would assume are popular and don't have a hard time finding dates, would need to hire a "stripper" in the first place. I assume today's college girls are still pretty liberated and sexually active. So why would these guys want to hire a stripper unless there was some behavior they wanted to engage in that would be considered "off limits" by their girlfriends? Living out some weird fantasies, maybe?

Or were these kids having a hard time getting girlfriends and were sexually repressed?

Not wanting to cast aspersions here, but the plan for the entire evening seemed strange. Even the frat guys and jocks during my college years never bothered with hiring strippers.

[noamnety]

21. I've never understood the bachelor party mentality either

But I imagine there's something similar in the mindset.

If you love a woman enough that you only want to be faithful to her, what would make you want to pay some other random woman that you have no connection to, to come take their clothes off in front of you?

The only answer I can come up with is that it's a male ritual to assert your masculinity specifically by exploiting and objectifying a woman. I would guess it's part of the marriage ritual because being monogamous is considered NOT masculine, so it's a sort of rebellion against that.

In their case, there was no marriage, obviously, but they still felt a need to engage in that sort of public exploitation of women.

[mzteris]

22. I read once that

Going to strip clubs is a homoerotic activity. That men's "group sex" activity is really a desire for homosexual contact. But since they're so scared of "being gay" - they engage in group sexual behaviours focused around a woman so they can claim masculinity.

Think about it - groups of guys watching each other perform sex acts - and then following each other using the same "object".



It's enough to make me sick just thinking about it. :puke:

[bliss_eternal]

24. I've always wondered about that....

the whole "community hard-on" thing. :shrug: Know what I mean?

Think about it--what exactly is so fun, exciting, titillating, satisfying....whatever about sitting around with your friends getting erect, as a group? Watching a porn movie, at a strip club, bachelor party, etc.

Color me confused.

[BlueIris]

23. "...a male ritual to assert your masculinity specifically by exploiting and objectifying a woman."

Yep.