Is DU.com the MOST MISOGYNIST IT HAS EVER BEEN right now?

[BlueIris]

Just asking. I can't remember a time when the woman-hating has been this obscene, (or this pervasive) or when the site's posters (and others affiliated with it) were more disinterested in this travesty. But then again, I've only been here since early '05.

[ThomCat]

1. As bad as it seems now,

I think it's been worse.

I don't remember what was going on at the time, but I remember that we were flooded with trolls at one point. Many of them were taking pot-shots at women and feminism.

Rush Limbaugh must have been off his meds that week. They were all on-message and inspired. x(

[Warpy]

2. The antiwoman trolls always come out

when antiabortion legislation has been submitted or passed. They also come out whenever some TV ranter has been on an antiabortion kick.

Sometimes it's awful, sometimes it's not so bad. It's just more of the background noise of misogyny we all have to live with as long as we live in a patriarchal society.

[bliss_eternal]

4. Could this have been the Duke rape week...?

As others here have mentioned, any week there is something in the news concerning women such as abortion legislation--they come out in droves. I recall the week everyone initially learned of the Duke rape was very bad.

There's a poster on DU with a woman's name but I know they are a troll. They only come out from under their rock to discuss issues concerning women, and always to take the anti-woman stance. This person posted in EVERY single Duke thread. I know because I didn't post in those threads, I only alerted (hoping to get rid of some of the opportunistic trolls). I saw this poster recently when the Duke case was dropped, attempting to bully others into apologizing or feeling sorry for the Duke players. :puke:

If it's an issue of race in the media--the racist trolls come out.
If it's an issue of gender, sexuality and/or glbt issues, the homophobes come out.

[ThomCat]

9. It might have been.

The timing is about right.

All the trolls seemed to crawl out of their caves for the Duke threads. They all "knew" from day one that the guys were absolutely 100% innocent, and woman was an evil fiend sent from hell to harass those poor innocent guys.
:eyes:

[bliss_eternal]

10. Sickening, wasn't it?

I'm surprised I survived the aftermath a few weeks ago. One more, "....what will the Duke guys do now that their lives are ruined?"
and I was sure I would hurl my computer across the room.

[BlueIris]

12. Oh...oops.

Yeah, DU's "bash the Duke rape victim" week was horrendous. I checked out after the third day and kinda...didn't go back into those threads very much after that.

And I know of the troll of whom you speak. I took her ("her"?) for a woman so male-identified she was obsessed with the idea that the significance of the Duke rape case was that her precious son or sons might someday be falsely accused of sexual assault. But maybe that person was just an ugly disruptor. That time on this site was also quite awful.

[bliss_eternal]

25. Actually, there's at least a few....

...women that come out to defend men during these situations. The more I think about it, I recall two in particular--one has a donor star (I think)and posts regularly. The other has no star, but only seems to come out for these kinds of situations (to woman bash)--despite their "female" screen name. That's the one I'm sure is a troll, as they also post frequently on racial threads (they're a racist, too...big surprise, right:eyes:).

There are others, but those particularly stand out for me. They are serial offenders.

[Scout]

26. those are the women i call "p**** women" ....

they aren't real women, they just suck up to men, must have the approval of men, and are only as "good" as whatever man they happen to be fucking at the time.

[VelmaD]

3. three words

The Bitch Wars

It was worse when we actually had something like 9 sequential threads on whether or not the site should ban the use of the word bitch. The level of justification of out and out sexism was staggering.

That said...it's pretty bad right now.

[bliss_eternal]

5. Those WERE bad.

:(
Really awful, nasty comments on the board. I was suprised by how many people felt the need to defend their right to slur women. :eyes:

On top of that, then they felt the need to explain the difference between word uses (i.e. slut vs. bitch, etc.)

[ismnotwasm]

6. I don't know

Anytime a "woman's" issue comes up they come out in droves. It doesn't seem to matter what the topic is-abortion, sex crimes, domestic violence, wage or work inequities, sexual harassment, sex work or sex workers, sexual slavery, even genital mutilation---The (apparently) unaware-that-they-are-women-hating-shits (Or self hating in the case of some women, driven by a need to protect the downtrodden male from the evils of the ball-busting feminists)
come out in droves. DROVES. The most amazing part is the total cluelessness of so many. Finger in the nose, butt scratching, pull my finger mental gymnastics, like Mengetbeattoo, or recently, Womencanrapemen.
Or my personal favorite Whatyoucallawomendoesn'tmattermengetcallednamestooandwhataboutfreedomofspeech....Which the misogynist's equivalent way of saying "Why do you hate America?

[bliss_eternal]

8. LOL!

You nailed it! :rofl:

Of course, it's not really funny. But I can't help but laugh at the accuracy of your comments, and the witty way you frame people's justifications.

[noamnety]

7. I'm amazed at how clueless people are

Even when they are trying to be nice, it's like they can't HELP but reduce women to ornaments.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3262688

Gosh, Chelsea is so poised ... maybe she could be a bride at a WH wedding. She's such a young lady in her own right ... (she's 27, what else WOULD she be?)

And of course that's an opening to rate every other candidate's wife and child's beauty and disect who's jaw is too square.

Right up there with Obama being "so articulate." Fucking paternalistic bullshit.

[Kerrytravelers]

11. Hang out on the Choice board. It is astonishing.

[iverglas]

13. there is a thread praising Larry Flynt

in GD as we speak. Really, words fail me.

I think the visibility of the misogyny may vary with the number and strength of the voices raised against it. Calling it what it is tends to intensify it.

[ismnotwasm]

14. Interesting Larry Flynt comes up

This was on The Huffington Post;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-cutbirth/thanks-jerry-we-hardly-k_b_48542.html

"The First Amendment wasn't written to give Flynt the freedom to degrade women or Falwell the freedom to spout hateful and ignorant bullshit and claim it is God's word.

It was drafted to create and preserve a set of rights that ensure you and I can get together and criticize any elected official or governmental policy we want, and that we can make a record of that in the mass media and send it to anyone who couldn't be there for the original discussion"

It another commentary on Jerry Falwell--The whole topic I've attempted to avoid (Until now)With a different twist.

I like that quote though.

[iverglas]

15. one of the comments there

(please do read it -- I don't mind at all being the goat, when it comes to interrupting whatever obnoxious fest I run across, but I do think those involved in such things are in dire need of public shaming, and multiple sources can have salutary effects)

-- that Flynt is carrying on the work of your (as in you of the US) forefathers.

Now, I'm not one to say what speech is for or not for, or that original intent matters a whit in the modern world. But that's just weird. Imagine any of the old dead white guys actually applauding photographs of women being gang-raped on pool tables, or put through meat grinders, or ever dreaming that they would be given the credit for it.

As for owing Flynt the freedom of speech that people in the US enjoy, well what a load of crap. Of course Falwell's action shouldn't have succeeded. Duh. It wasn't Larry Flynt that made that rule, it was the courts, applying your constitution. Flynt just happened to be standing there.

For a more detailed look at the movie in question, see these:

http://www.feminist.com/resources/artspeech/media/flynt.htm
-- Gloria Steinem's take

and http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/Porn/rusflynt.html
-- a rather more breathless contribution, but with some interesting tidbits, and pointing out how completely dishonest the movie portrayal of the person and events was

Steinem's take, which I'll pretty much adopt:

So, no, I am not grateful to Mr. Flynt for protecting my freedom, as the film and its enthusiasts suggest I should be. No more than I would be to a racist or fascist publisher whose speech is protected by the Constitution.

[bliss_eternal]

16. Great Steinem quote...!

I appreciate your sharing it, and the fact that these women debunked some of these ideas.

I was accused of "discussing the merits of pornography" :eyes:, by one I suspect is a troll to DU. If the guy had any sort of reading comprehension skills, he would have seen that I said that while he is a pornographer and I'm not fond of much of what he does as one, I had to admit he cracked me up when he called the govt. on their hypocrisy when they tried to impeach Clinton.

[noamnety]

17. I can't believe that's on the greatest page

If Falwell had published drawings of gay people being run through a meat grinding machine, would DU would be singing his praises, too?

[iverglas]

18. I can't believe the astounding and insistent ignorance

Imagine actually BELIEVING that you owe your freedom of speech to Larry Flynt!!!!

Makes my head hurt.

[noamnety]

19. Well, he DID invent cartoons and satire.

Hard to argue with that. :)

[Scout]

20. probably, I'm sorry to say....

now if they were white, heterosexual MEN in that meat grinding machine published in say, Ms. (although Ms. would never do such a stupid thing, i'm sure) the outrage would be heard all over the place!

[iverglas]

21. and "man-eater"

would take on a whole new meaning.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Time to get back to work. ;)

I'm most impressed now with the gay men coming along to shake Larry's hand and slap him on the back. And there was me, standing up for gay men who are dancing on Falwell's grave ...

[bliss_eternal]

22. iverglas.....

....:hug:

[iverglas]

24. and y'all too

I've been at this a long time, and in much fouler places than DU -- including real life. I don't mind being the only one standing up to bullies -- but I really really like it when people join. It makes me feel a little stronger, but it also makes me really happy that they felt strong too. And if I am the cushion that provides the little extra boost for someone's confidence, and makes it feel a little safer for them to stand up for themselves and what they believe in, it makes my day.

Thanks to all who did post in that thread. The Flynt crew has been trying to get it shut down, and will probably succeed before long. At a certain point, while it may be frustrating to read the lies and vulgar insults, it really is just damned funny.

[bliss_eternal]

23. Ugh...the meat grinder....

...how could I have forgotten that image from Hustler.

:scared:

Thanks for the reminder, everyone. I needed to recall this no matter how yucky that image was.

[iverglas]

27. I just want to unobtrusively make a request

Look here, if you would:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=190x21776

This is not a call to arms; the post isn't of any interest here, and I'm not suggesting that anyone post in the thread.

I would just like to know what your reaction is to what you see.

I guess we can predict what mine is.

If you're not sure what you're looking at, google Gil Elvgren.

[Scout]

28. ummmm, i'm confused

don't see what the link has to do with Gil Elvgren?

perhaps i'm being thick, but i don't get it :(

[iverglas]

29. hmm, maybe I'm confused

But it has been my understanding that the festival of soft-core porn we are treated to in such posts -- the sample changes regularly -- comes from the oeuvre of Mr. Elvgren.

Yup, I remembered right.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=190&topic_id=19660
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=190&topic_id=16382

Now you don't need to guess what my opinion is. ;)


edit -- heh, I should probably have said: I don't see what that link has to do with Elvgren, either. That's what I'm on about. It is virtually impossible to open a thread in that particular forum, at least, without having to gaze at some tits and ass being passed off as, well, I don't really know what. "Camp", eh? Women's bodies can just keep on being used and keep on being used ... if the use they were being used for yesterday isn't quite the thing in polite company today, then wrap it up in some kind of cultural double-talk and keep on doing it ...

[Scout]

30. oh duh, I *am* thick!

I had images and sig lines turned off! So when I clicked on the links you posted, I was getting the text and the links to the news articles they were talking about! Not the soft-core porn images in the posts!

I don't need to guess your opinion! :)

[iverglas]

31. heh

I had images and sig lines turned off!

I did, for years. I should go back to that.

[Chovexani]

32. Gets worse by the day

Check this out: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1336641&mesg_id=1336944

Apparently wearing high heels to a funeral is enough to get Maria Shriver stoned as a harlot in GD.

[BlueIris]

33. Ew!

And...what? I wore low heels to a funeral once. BFD.

You've heard of Peak Oil, right? And consequently Peak Suburbia, Peak Globalization? Could we please have some Peak Misogyny? Would that be possible, please?

[noamnety]

34. lol

Peak Misogyny is one of the best terms I've ever heard. :D

[BlueIris]

35. Thanks. You may steal it, if you want.

[iverglas]

36. and another one down

We recently lost Morgana LaFey. In case anyone has missed her always worthwhile posts, it's because she's not able to contribute them any more. The reason is not clear. If anyone would like to theorize, you might read this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=336&topic_id=2900&mesg_id=2900
and speculate. (And I am by absolutely no means suggesting that anyone post in that thread or anywhere in that forum; for the sake of one's own sanity if nothing else, I recommend not going within a kilometre of the place in ordinary circumstances.)

I can pass on email addresses for anyone who would like. And btw, if you don't have a gmail address for purposes like this, they're generally available now at www.gmail.com ... but of course if you'd like one of the 800 invitations I have left to give away ... . I got in early. Getting one's DU name for a gmail account is very convenient. ;)

[Chovexani]

37. Aw shit

I may not have always agreed with her on things but I really valued her input.

All the smart, conscious people are driven away it seems. :(

[ismnotwasm]

38. Dammit

I went over there (Don't worry, it's the last time I EVER will--I don't need that shit)and tried to spread it out a little. It's a specific forum and I understand that-- tried to stay within the scope of it's intentions are. She didn't say anything worse than I've seen on any number of threads. I didn't realize everything had been removed, my comments included. I feel bad about this, I was wondering where she was.

Want to know something? I talk to any number of men on a given day. Women too. If I object to sexist language, most of them have the courtesy to stop, and not pretend it's ok. I've gotten into productive discussions with people as varied as sex workers to those I would consider sexist pigs. What is it about the fucking internet? The armchair warrior syndrome? I'll never be good at this shit. Ever.

Hey Morgana LaFey, I never did tell you I liked your user name, and valued your input.

[bliss_eternal]

40. The anonymity of the internet is dangerous...

...in my opinion. I've experienced abuse on-line that I KNOW I wouldn't in the real world. For one reason, a person would think twice before "saying" some of the things some have felt free to "type out" in cyberspace. Secondly, my boundaries in the real world are such that someone would KNOW better than to say crap like that in my presence, and if they did they would suffer the consequences. ;)

Without "seeing" someone and being face to face, some feel free to let their "freak flags fly." The internet and the cyber world are a coward's paradise, in my opinion. I won't even get into all the sociopaths that hang around waiting to push people's buttons. :eyes:

So yes, the armchair warrior comments seem especially appropriate in this regard. The interesting thing is all the women I've seen jump into such behavior.

[BlueIris]

39. Welp, I have the author of that thread you linked on Ignore, apparently.

But it sounds epic.

We'll miss Morgana in the Astro/Spirituality forum.

[bliss_eternal]

42. Definitely.

:hug:
She's always been an asset to astro, too.

[bliss_eternal]

41. I'll miss her...

:(

[wicket]

43. YES YES YES

:grr: