Yeah, yeah, another thread about *her*

[gaspee]

So, how are the rest of you coping with the anti-woman hatred being spewed all over DU over Miz Hilton. My ignore list is topping 200 people now. Soon, I'm going to think there's no reason to be here since every third person who posts regularly is now ignored.

I'm totally serious about this; I am so disturbed by the hate leveled at this woman and the language and tone of that hate.

Unbelieveable. So... how are you all coping with this nastiness? I thought about posting in response to every single hatefilled comment, but I haven't come up with the perfectly pithy phrase yet.

For every skank, ho, bitch and other assorted phrases, I was trying to come up with an equivelant, but as we all know, there isn't one.

I was thinking "rapist" as a general epithat for men but it's not demeaning and doesn't have the same intent of "putting them in their place" that all the anti-woman words do.

And how can people post this kind of hate? Do they really not believe that is what they are doing? Or do they really all actually hate women. Wait, don't anser that, I know the answer.

[atommom]

1. I agree, a lot of it is about sexism. I've been avoiding GD lately

because it has been consistently annoying me (for this and other reasons). I think she's just a convenient scapegoat for anger at uppity women. Here's a relevant post from Pandagon:

People probably don't even know what Hilton did to run afoul of the law; all they know is she's an unapologetically sexual woman and her money cushions her from the usual punishments dished out to women who have the nerve not to feel horribly ashamed that they have sex. I wish Hilton was a stand-in for people's anger over the way that our current administration is creating an aristocracy on the backs of the rest of us, but the positive reaction that Silverman got for this joke makes it very clear to me that Hilton is instead a repository for a lot of anger about how women just get to walk around all free of male control, particularly over our sexuality. It's bizarre to me that the one good quality Hilton seems to possess, which is her blase and cheerful attitude about fornication, is the trait of hers that's most despised.

Still, I wouldn't go so far as to say that the media obsessions aren't "real" issues, because most of the time, the public interest stems from the social politics on the ground. As I noted when I was on TV after the Edwards dust-up, it was like Anna Nicole Smith coverage, then me, and then I think more coverage about Smith, creating the accurate impression that the media discourse is driven primarily by the "naughty ladies" narrative, the setting up of one woman after another as the bad guy, the social toilet, and then relishing her punishment. (The anchor demanded I apologized for having the nerve to tell the truth about the Catholic church's teachings on birth control; I refused. Smith, alas, was dead, so I guess she got hers.) I agree with Gore 100% that these kinds of stories are a way to distract from the real issues, and the damage is real, but I would point out that stories that hook the ratings are about real issues and become popular because they give people space to discuss real issues while letting the media avoid addressing them.

Think about it. In the dust-up over me and Melissa on the Edwards campaign, it gave people an opportunity to talk, through the proxies of defending us or deriding us, about their views on the use of religion to push an unjust patriarchal agenda. Pretty much everyone who defended us was defending the right of the people to push back against our oppressors who use religion as a tool of oppression, and everyone who bellyached about us was pushing an anti-woman/anti-gay agenda. The Anna Nicole Smith thing was a discourse in sex and class mobility. The JonBenet Ramsey case was an obscure way for people to talk about our cultural uneasiness with training girls from the cradle on to live as if their highest calling in life was to be sex objects. The "dead white girl of the week" narratives about white girls who get raped and/or killed while out partying is a discussion about the proper ownership and use of white female bodies—do they belong to the women who live in them or to the white men who had traditional ownership? Michael Richards getting called out for using racial slurs was about the way that our nation has not relinquished racism but puts up a big show as if we have. The "Runaway Bride" was about anxieties over the reactionary push towards "traditional" marriage.

http://pandagon.net/2007/06/08/mainstream-media-al-gore-paris-hilton/

http://tinyurl.com/2xhrhj

[BlueIris]

2. Between Hilton and the Lounge "Penis rules" misogyny fest, I stayed away from the site yesterday.

Probably going to stay away from the site for most of next week, too. Well, unless the neo-cons finally boot Cheney, in which case, I'll be here more.

[Morgana LaFey]

18. Why even go to the Lounge? Seriously. I don't, unless I end up

following a thread there. Some of our mods get some weird ideas. They tossed a "Sweat Lodge" thread into the Lounge they other day.

So, do ya'll ALERT on sexist posts? I sure hope so. I'd hate to be the only one. :D

[Warpy]

22. Don't worry, you're not

I have a much higher boiling point than a lot of people in this forum, but I still have one and I do alert on threads that deal exclusively with a woman's appearance, supposed sex life, or any other irrelevancy to why she's in the news in the first place.

Enough is enough. People need to grow up a little and getting a precious thread killed might be just enough of a kick in the rear to get the process started.

Oh, and I've avoided the Lounge for years, too. The Lounge is for kids, IMO, and it's not worth wading through pages of trash to come up with the occasional treasure.

[femrap]

3. The hatred that the male DU posters

are displaying reminds me of the hatred shown when a woman is stoned in other cultures.

I am no longer as upset when I see how much men hate women. Their hatred is their problem....a very big problem. I bet that hatred eats at their collective souls.

[bliss_eternal]

8. You're right...

...totally their problem, and it probably does eat at their souls. How could it not?

I think I'll call it "Bill Maher syndrome." Based on the fact that he so obviously hates women, but blames his intolerance on us. Oh and that he's found ways to articulate that hatred that sound almost intelligent, and incredibly verbose. :eyes:

Yes Bill, it's all our fault you are living in your own self-fulfilling prophecy. Your choices define all women. :sarcasm:

You see women as s-words, w's and b's that would rather have diamonds than books...guess what you end up with, dude? Yup. A gorgeous arm-piece that hasn't cracked open a book since high school. :eyes: But that's ALL women's fault right? :eyes: I take issue with a man that calls Ann Coulter "a good friend"--she's one of the biggest misogynist I've ever seen.

[femrap]

10. So I guess I should be thankful that I

don't have HBO...isn't he on that channel? I've heard some of his crap on occasion...and I always think to myself, 'EEK....he's so damn ugly. He should consider himself extremely lucky to have a date.'

I know that sounds 'just like a man.' But sometimes I think the only way to get through to them is to put a mirror up to them. I would think with all of his money that he could afford some plastic surgery to fix his nose and pox marks.

And there I went and hurt the male's fragile ego....I hear society booing me.

But it's fine and dandy for women to insert silicon into their breasts. GRRRRRRR.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bliss_eternal]

27. Perhaps...

you should review the mission statement of this forum.
Your comments aren't welcome here.

[gaspee]

28. Go away

Did you not read the rules of DU or this board.

And please, enlighten us about the man hating on this thread. Again, you might be looking for a different thread, wanker.

[ThomCat]

26. Unfortunately,

no matter how much that hatred might eat at their souls, it eats at women's lives and bodies more. :(

Any woman celebrity that appeals to 13 year old girls is automatically hated. I don't cheerlead for any celebrity, but I don't understand that need to openly hate them.

I can't help wondering what it is about teen girls that everyone hates so much that they need to hate anyone that teen girls idolize.

[Marie26]

4. It's depressing

Even Keith Olbermann referred to her as a "slut" and made a demeaning sexual joke about her on air. And this is a liberal icon? How is it that people can be so progressive in so many other ways, but so reactionary when it comes to women? How did we get to the point that slurs based on race, religion, orientation aren't tolerated, but gender slurs are totally accepted?

Cause calling girls sluts is always funny - http://feministing.com/archives/005858.html

[gaspee]

12. Yup

that nearly killed me the other night. Stewart is just as bad. About the only one who actually isn't a horrible jerk when it comes to women is Colbert.

[noamnety]

13. I used to be a huge olbermann fan

back when he was the only one doing election fraud.

That started to come apart during the "runaway bride" coverage, which appeared to be not much more than him making fun of how she looks.
That put the issue on my radar, and the more I started watching him, the more obvious it was.

[Marie26]

16. I agree

I don't really like Olbermann as a person, despite the good he may do as a newscaster. I've just seen him demean women way too often on his show - does he not realize that women watch it too? It's kind of a "jock"/frat mentality. And that goes for John Stewart & Bill Maher, too. It is depressing, because you expect this kind of thing from a conservative, but often men on the liberal side are just as bad.

[bliss_eternal]

20. I didn't know this about Olberman...

:( I don't watch his show, and only really know him from the praise and positive remarks I see around here and hear from other progressives. Knowing he does this, makes me kind of sad--as I didn't think he was the type.

Maher--yes, no question at all. I stopped watching him because of his shitty comments regarding women AND the fact that he is openly supportive of Schwarzennegger. You know, that guy that can't seem to have a meeting without making some slur against women or people of color, and the guy that said he was pro-gay marriage who screwed them once he was in office. Yes Bill, Arnie's doing a fantastic job--in YOUR opinion and FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU(celebrities and the rich)! :banghead:

[noamnety]

25. olbermann tonight

after all these days in prison, here's how Paris Hilton looks without her makeup: (shows photoshopped picture of trump's head on her body)

wtf. It's like he doesn't know how to talk about women without interjecting a gratuitous nasty comment about their looks.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noamnety]

5. I haven't been putting people on ignore.

I'm torn between that, and silence condones.

I've been speaking out, but it sure is tiresome.

Pointing out some hypocrisy:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1073154#1075631

I'm sure it will be lost on them, though, as the folks here EMBRACE their right to slur women, as a few vocals ones do in other so-called peace activist forums I visit.

[Justitia]

6. Hello friends! Never been here before, but I was looking for a "safe room"!

Geez! It's a madhouse out there!

Whore, slut, tramp, ho, bitch, skank - flying all over the place!

Do you believe that a DUer called me "Just Titties" - a FEMALE DUer????!!!!

A male poster said about PH: "just kill the bitch"

What the hell is going on here?

At least the mods deleted "Just Titties", but I have to say I'm really disappointed to see how many slurs they are letting stay. I've alerted a lot in the last 2 days, and I always thank them, saying I know it's busy, busy - but they are letting a lot more posts stay than I would expect.

As another poster said, it really does feel like a stoning. And it's really disturbing.

I think I may check out of DU for a few days, but I wanted to stop and say "hi".

[noamnety]

7. Thanks for alerting

I've been doing the same, sometimes with a long explanation, sometimes short.

DU needs a little more diversity in its administration.

A person who questions global warming is tombstoned; a person who uses racial slurs at another DUer is tombstoned, I'd be willing to bet the person who directed that slur at you doesn't get so much as a warning; the post is just quietly deleted. Whether or not women should be publicly stoned here for being female appears to be a subject up for legitimate debate, from what I can tell.

I wonder sometimes if this is what skinner wanted DU to become.

[ismnotwasm]

9. I ignored the whole thing until last night

Then I read a little history of what went on. I've always sort of liked Ms. Hilton, she's kind of funny, and seems to poke fun at American celebrity culture, as well as herself.

I haven't opened any thread regarding her on DU except this on, I wasn't that interested. But I can see where it would be a golden free-for-all opportunity to degrade women, use every misogynist slur in the book. Almost like...Permission! Poor little rich girl screws up royally. One who has promoted her sexuality. Those who degrade her know she wouldn't give them "the time of day" Part of a frustrated penis response. (Average men who can't "do" her, so therefore she's a slut, ho, skank etc--as well as the famous, "I wouldn't do her anyway")

From what I've read, she needs to do her time, and grow up. Period. I would love to see her do some community work, get something positive out of this bullshit. She's part of Americana, and if she isn't damaged beyond repair, can act as a positive role model someday. Perhaps that's not reasonable, but I'd certainly like to see it.

[bliss_eternal]

11. What more can we expect from South Park viewers...?

...and I suspect that despite their right wing leanings, we have many viewers of the show on our board.

The animated show that featured an episode about Paris Hilton that they entitled, "Stupid Spoiled Whore."

While I liked some of the points made during the episode, I didn't understand their need to call women whores in the process. For example, I appreciated that the episode (perhaps inadvertently), questioned the commercial trend of sexualizing little girls, with clothing and the types of items that are marketed to them. But I could have done without their need to call Hilton a whore, and to have the character coughing up semen throughout the episode. :eyes:

But of course, those that don't know history are doomed to repeat it--even the history of South Park and they guy's that created it. It's a major device of the show's creator's to paint women they dislike as "bitches", "sluts" and "whores." One of their earliest shows features Barbara Streisand as a horrible monster, trying to gain world domination. :eyes: (No, I'm not kidding.)

Apparently the name of the show's female characters, who is painted as sexually promiscuous,(featured on the cover of Crack Whore magazine on their show :eyes:) happens to share the name of the creator's ex. I read that this woman left him at the altar. So he's spent the last eight years expending his energy calling her names and painting her (literally) in a highly unflattering light. :eyes:

So typical.
Man thrwarted by woman.
Man calls woman slut, tramp, whore and bitch.
Man blames woman for seeing what a turd (he probably) was and walking away from him and the relationship.
Man paints woman as dredge of society to discredit her, and any claims she makes to defend herself from the attacks made by the man.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

14. I didn't know that about the South Park creator

Gee, I can't imagine why a woman would leave such a prize at the altar... :sarcasm:

I have a very ambivalent reaction to the show myself. One the one hand it eviscerates certain sacred cows but when it comes to women, it's the same old tired stereotyping and denigration. Whom exactly do guys like the South Park ones think they are fooling when they act like bashing women is 'subversive'? Oh yeah, I know, all those men who cry piteously about 'male bashing!' as if being criticized on Oprah or mocked in commercials and sitcoms is on a par with rape porn. Way back when I was lurking, I remember a thread where some pro-porn asshole actually made that comparison. As far as he was concerned, TV shows that portrayed men as fools and buffoons were every bit as bad as porn that depicted women being subjected to violence. Seriously.

[ismnotwasm]

15. I read an interview one time

With the shows 'creators"--(I forget their names-- I watched the show enough to not care for it much, it does have very funny moments though) They didn't appear to want specific political views known, but gave the impression that they leaned libertarian.

I like dark humor, but not when it's just a tool to promote patriarchy, or a a patriarchal structure. Then it just pisses me off. Like you say,who do they think they're fooling? (Probably the ones who don't want their comfortable male entitlement challenged in any way, and the females who consider the current status quo a "choice")

[bliss_eternal]

19. South Park used to be a better show, imo...

...when it was more even handed in their critiques and social commentary. And for guys like that, I believe libertarian is just code for "we're conservative--but like to smoke our pot." ;)

I made the mistake of thinking EVERYONE was fair game for their show. WRONG! Despite the creators libertarian claims, they have moved quite sharply right in many respects. In the last few years, while watching South Park the tv definitely tilted a bit to the right. :eyes:

It got so bad, I stopped watching altogether. Now, I'll watch some of the older shows in syndication but that's it. The newer ones suck and seem to be a lot of cheerleading for the right and bashing of the left.

One thing I've noticed specifically, they've NEVER lampooned bush. Not once. They've beaten the shit out of Clinton--many times, many ways. But they have yet to feature a show that is critical of bush in any way, shape or form. :crazy: They even created the show "That's My Bush", that should tell you where they stand on the current pResident.

They've had ALOT of many shows where they've talked shit about the liberal blogosphere and the way progressives talk about and make fun of the right. They even found a way to "make light" of Katrina. I had tired of their crap by then, but that show was the last straw. :grr::mad:

They "lampoon" every progressive/liberal celebrity out there(Barbara Streisand, Michael Moore,Rob Reiner, Alec Baldwin)but few conservative ones.

Oh and they also have a very weird, almost morbid fascination with women's vaginas and menstruation.:scared:
I won't even go into their nastiness around abortion. They've featured those issues in completely bizarre, totally unfunny ways that made me ashamed that I was viewing at the time. Very nasty, frat-type, rw, weirdness around women's bodies and issues.

[Morgana LaFey]

17. South Park -- I've never watched it and never will. I caught the end of

ONE episode the other day, probably tuning in early for TDS. And while I don't remember exactly what went on (we're talking about 60 - 120 seconds at best), it was ghastly and I realized why I've not ever been drawn to watch it.

The voice of Bart Simpson is a woman. How sick is THAT?

[bliss_eternal]

21. You aren't missing anything...

...as I'm sure you could tell from the brief moment you saw.

I liked it much more in the beginnings of the show. They went from social commentary of everyone to "let's talk shit about the people that piss US off." Which seems to be us--women, liberals, progressives, etc.

:eyes:

You're right, Bart IS voiced by a woman. I had forgotten about that.