The quality of our relationships

[idgiehkt]

I read in one of the links here something to the nature of that Aspies can have relationships but they won't be on the same level as normal people or NT's or whatever. I wonder how people here feel about their relationships, if they are as 'deep' as those of NT's. I don't feel that I am any less capable of loving someone as passionately or as deeply as a so-called neuro-typical person...my romantic relationships tend to be very passionate. What am I missing here? I definitely have fewer friendships than other people but so much of the behavior around that I see comes off as fake and phony to me. Maybe that is just my judgement because I am not terribly sentimental and don't like all that mushy stuff. But I don't feel that my relationships, the few I have, are of lesser quality than other people's. What do y'all think?

[hunter]

1. What a bizarre thing, to judge relationships like that!

Hmmmm, is it like a 1-10 scale or something? A row of judges holding up scorecards?

"Well Scot, it looks like the judges are ready! And there it is the score for sex: 9-10-9-10-10, well it certainly looks like this couple is doing it better than most! And now the score for affection.... we're waiting... you know they lost last years competition for that one mean glance during the tricky in-law routine, but wait, wait, there it is... (screaming) A PERFECT TEN! YES, YES, THEY HAVE WON THIS YEAR'S RELATIONSHIP QUALITY COMPETITION!"

My wife and I are winners, by the way. :blush:

[idgiehkt]

4. what I understood the source to be stating was that

our failure to understand expressions/cues whatever, our tendency toward literal interpretation, etc, makes us also have less 'deep' relationships. They seem to be stating that we do not have the capacity for emotion towards other humans that NT's have. I am wondering if it is that we don't have the same emotion towards *as many* humans as NT's have. I am extremely compassionate and protective of animals, and always have been. I think this can be a trait of apspies. I have deep compassion in this way that a lot of NT's don't. I just think the source was making a logical extension, but I think it was a flawed one. Because I care deeply and passionately about people when I get involved with them intimately, at least from my perspective I do. That source made me doubt myself a little, even.

[Deja Q]

2. And that it is uncommon for Aspies/Autistics to get into them,

relationships...

I am very happy for those who do.

The few attempts I tried ended up in failure. Because of not understanding the other person's reactions in a situation. Hindsight being 20/20, some of my failures make sense.

These days I tell people upfront of Asperger's syndrome. And that usually takes care of that. I'm not into playing games, so I will let them know upfront of my differences. It is up to them to decide if they wish to take a chance or not.

[hunter]

3. My wife is very straightforward.

She interrupts me and say's "You are being an idiot."

And I say "Oh," and I shut up, because I probably am.

But it's a lot more complicated than that...

We are both very strong willed and stubborn, but for the most part we both want the same things. The bulk of the conflict in our relationship is that I don't tolerate certain sorts of change well, and sometimes it doesn't occur to me to talk about things that need to be talked about. But we can argue like demons about less important things and have no arguments at all, just reasonable discussions, about issues that would break apart other marriages.

I really don't understand the chemistry, but I do know I was very lucky. It was "love at first sight" when I met my wife, but getting myself together to ask her out wasn't easy, and included breaking up with a woman who was basically keeping me around as eye candy until something better with money came along. (I think this girlfriend was actually relieved that she wouldn't have to dump me, and ready for a new pretty boy.)

That's not to say my wife and I haven't had problems, including those that precipitated my recent change in meds, but life goes on, and it's good.

[bloom]

5. relationships

I don't know about comparing with NTs. Because who knows, really.

I do know that most people that I am comfortable with are more likely to be Asperger types of people. I'm more likely to be able to relate to how they think and what they are interested in (at least the liberal minded ones).

At the same time Asperger types of people who are stubborn and perfectionistic might have more hurdles than usual in relationships.

I'm quite sure that I feel as strongly as anyone.

I always figured that I had adjusted my expectations so that I wasn't expecting too much from my husband. In doing so - I had accepted that he simply would not or could talk about significant problems. It's all too abstract or something. It's not been a good thing.

[Aspy in Bend]

6. the NT standard

This is probably the same as hitting a hornets' nest. Usually the people judging the way 'AS' people deal with relationships are not the ones living it themselves. Of course we handle relationships differently, but isn't any relationship an interaction between 2 unique individuals?

When any relationship goes sour, more often than not, it is because at least one of them is not dealing with the issues at hand. It is far easier to blame the other person for any problems than to deal with one's own emotional/psychological/social issues. When you are, as a confirmed Asperger person, in a relationship with a NT, then of course, that is like having a neon sign light up pointing at you as being the one who is responsible for the problem - any problem. It may be too complicated for you to try to explain why you acted the way you did, but that would be besides the point: you are AS, therefor, you must be the problem.

What I have found is that there are a lot of NT's who actually have a variety of undiagnosed conditions, and isn't ignorance bliss? Pretty much everybody considers themselves to be 'normal' until you are diagnosed as having some type of condition. How do you become 'diagnosed'? For some of us that would be self reflection and research for self-improvement; for others they have to be persuaded/forced into counseling. Still others cling to their belief to be 'normal' regardless of all the evidence to the contrary. Little did I know that I was the poster child for Asperger, as I did not get diagnosed until a few years ago. At least I knew that I was 'odd', 'eccentric', 'a little weird', etc... I just didn't know the 'why' for all the idiosyncratic behaviors.

According to some research it seems that AS has several advantages for relationships: passionate, loyalty, monogamous, intensity, stubborn, sincerity, ethical, naive, etc... Sure some people may argue about 'what' the advantages of some of those traits are.

I'm starting to digress here.

[idgiehkt]

7. great paragraph

"What I have found is that there are a lot of NT's who actually have a variety of undiagnosed conditions, and isn't ignorance bliss? Pretty much everybody considers themselves to be 'normal' until you are diagnosed as having some type of condition. How do you become 'diagnosed'? For some of us that would be self reflection and research for self-improvement; for others they have to be persuaded/forced into counseling. Still others cling to their belief to be 'normal' regardless of all the evidence to the contrary. Little did I know that I was the poster child for Asperger, as I did not get diagnosed until a few years ago. At least I knew that I was 'odd', 'eccentric', 'a little weird', etc... I just didn't know the 'why' for all the idiosyncratic behaviors."

yep, I often joke about the 'normals' and how they are usually the most messed up, especially the older they are just because if you've gone this long without any self-reflection, watch out.

I was the same too. I thought of myself as quirky and eccentric, so I was pretty surprised to find out I was just a mundane aspy.

[bloom]

8. "Pretty much everybody considers themselves to be 'normal' until you are diagnosed..."

I pretty much decided in high school that I wasn't "normal". I didn't know what I was - but I knew I wasn't "normal".


I think it's a good idea for people with Asperger's (diagnosed or not) to consider how their behavior affects others (of course it's a good idea for anyone - but this is about people with Asperger's). There is at least one site dedicated to such ( I don't have the link anymore).

And while yes - there are lots of good characteristics - honesty requires that people look in the mirror and think about anti-depressants, when necessary.

I didn't really recognize how my behavior affected others until I used anti-depressants. And then I still didn't like to use them.


Another thing is - having multiple Asperger people share a house can be a nightmare IMO. Which is probably often the case - at least when it comes to parents and children. I could not live with my dad, for instance. He's lucky to have a wife who puts up with him.

[Deja Q]

10. Daintily put.

"He's lucky to have a wife who puts up with him."

:sarcasm:

That's kinda hurtful, on many levels.

He probably "puts up with her too".

And both probably "put up with each other" because there is something that transcends his horrible little quirks that makes him less than a worthy person. (Aspies are people too...)

Or if he's so lucky for having a person who can tolerate his subhuman idiosyncrasies, you make it sound like he deserves to be alone and doesn't deserve anybody.

Don't forget, if nothing else he helped give you your life. Everyone has their issues with their parents at times, but what you said is extremely callous.

[bloom]

11. That does sound tough

it was meant to.

Sure he has the best memory of anyone I know and among the highest moral standards.

But he didn't see the need to control his temper or to consider his affect on others. It was not fun growing up in a house with him.

And he still gets mad at the littlest things - like someone looking to see if there was cream out (That was an insult - who knew?) :eyes: Everyone just pretends that he's not ridiculous.


No - he's not "putting up" with anyone. Not much. Not anywhere near. It's always been the other way - as much as he or you - would like to believe otherwise. The fact of the matter is that HE can barely tolerate anyone. Or so it seems.


As far as, "you make it sound like he deserves to be alone and doesn't deserve anybody." No that's not it. I am glad that he is not alone. There is a lot that I'm not going to say - but the thing that I was trying to say is that people who are difficult should really think about what they can do to mitigate their behavior. He never considered anti-depressants. I think it would have been a good idea for him. Still would.

[hunter]

12. That's the worst -- forcing yourself to tolerate people.

I get that way when I'm bad, I can "barely tolerate anyone" and the biggest problem is that it can creep up on you... you continue to believe your feelings as they slowly go haywire.

I wrote a bit here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=276&topic_id=4582&mesg_id=4600

[idgiehkt]

13. your dad sounds a lot like my dad

the worst of it is because I have gone to such lengths to deal with my problems by seeking help and therapy I am considered the 'crazy' one in my family. It's nuts. My Dad is a rageaholic. It's such a shame. He cost my mom access to her only grandchild, whom she hasn't seen in two years, because of his mouth. So very sad.

[Deja Q]

15. Good points

I would only wonder if his lack of tolerance stems from the inability to understand people, how he was treated growing up as a child, both, and/or another factor. (not that it makes it right, and I'm also curious to know what he has tried, what he has observed, or just has a blind ignorance toward drugs. From my own experiences with them, antidepressants don't consistently work or wear off quickly. Ritalin works in reverse. I don't often like to think he even exists, but Tom Cruise actually has some credibility to his opinion psychiatric drugs are a waste. For some they do have merit, but not all and not for all people. The drug industry just wants to drug everybody up because it's constant profits for them...)

And everyone has issues with putting up; folks with A.S. just have issues other than the N.T.'s. That's one angle of which everybody has to be aware. Aspies just aren't as consciously aware of others.

And, lastly, our society wants to treat people like programmable objects. There is no time accorded to adults; the children are supposed to be controlled robots to react on command. That's where being an Aspie has a cruel advantage. We're good at knowing our place. (Well, we're usually oblivious or find other things to do.)

[MSchreader]

9. My wife and I have a great relationship

But then, we both have AS and both have similar "interests". It's true, though, that neither of us had a lot of relationships before ours.

I think that the whole issue about our relationships not being the same as NTs means nothing, in the end. We have relationships that we are most comfortable with. It doesn't make us any less loving or caring for the ones we're with, it only means we express it in a way that works for us. OK, fine, we're not into gratuitous acts or public displays of affection, but that doesn't make us cold or uncaring. I see it as saving it for such times as it is appropriate. In the mall or the movie theater in front of a crowd is not an appropriate time, in my opinion.

Martin

[bleedingheart]

14. my husband is an Aspie...and here was what I have discovered so far

we have been married over 12 years..


1. You can't be a needy person if you are married to an Aspie...so women who need to be told that they are beautiful all the time or petted and coddled aren't going to do well with Aspies. It isn't that they aren't capable of great love, they are...they are more straightforward about romance...but they can learn over time.. You have to be able to make yourself happy and be happy with who you are in order to be a good fit for an Aspie.

2. There can be no guessing games. If I want a specific item for my birthday...I ask for it. I don't go "hinting"...he won't pick up on it...although he has gotten a bit better over time.

3. Sometimes you have to let it go when it comes to some emotional issues. My husband doesn't understand when I get upset about some things..years ago I was working on something at work. I was deciphering some code and designing something different...and he got interested in it. It was my project and my "territory"...yet he would not let it go...software is his "passion" and by golly if he didn't worm his way into what I was doing...and it pissed me off...it wasn't that he was trying to make me mad...but his obsession overrode any awareness of my feelings...and to this day...he will bring up that incident because he is still trying to decode why I got so pissed off at him.

If anything Aspies are honest and kind....in a way their emotions are more bare than other people's because they don't always have the defensive mechanisms to protect themselves or be aware of how others can hurt them. They aren't as cynical as the rest of us and that is what makes my Aspie so special to me..

My son is the one with the formal diagnosis ...but my husband and even his father are classic Aspies..and through my son's treatments my husband has learned more about why he found it so hard to deal with the world around him.

[Deja Q]

16. re: point 2

I find personal ads funny. All those N.T.'s saying "no games". Along comes an Aspie who is as no-gamer as one can get and that's when the games seem to begin - and the Aspie is the one being played. (from my perspective, of course, but past experiences to add up and can not be discounted... only tempered so cynicism doesn't take over... and I have some reclaiming to do. Cynicism is not healthy...)

[hunter]

17. Blending cynicism with humor seems to work for me...

I take the worst of my cynicism and try to make something funny and silly and absurd out of it. But that only works if it's not a mean sort of funny. I hate Seinfeld and other humor like that because it's mean spirited. Futurama is funny because it is cynical and absurd. So's Monty Python. The Simpsons borders on being too mean for me.

Before I met my wife, I tended to get used and abused in relationships. It almost seemed like it was a game with other people to see how much I would put up with. The problem was I hardly recognized the games, or that I was being "played." I look back and recognize my appalling innocence. At the same time I can now forgive myself and my old girlfriends -- we were all young and ignorant.