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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 06:12 PM Original message |
Rape |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 06:23 PM Response to Original message |
1. how does this address |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 06:30 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Next will be "but consensual statutory rape doesn't fit this either" |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:41 PM Response to Reply #2 |
34. depends on the age as you noted |
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moriah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 10:02 PM Response to Reply #34 |
75. IMHO control and power are part of "drunk rape" and statutory rape. |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 10:08 PM Response to Reply #75 |
77. The problem with Drunk rape is usually both parties are impared..nt |
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moriah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 10:33 PM Response to Reply #77 |
79. That's why I said what I did about the guy drinking as well. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:10 AM Response to Reply #79 |
99. I think you are over analyzing |
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Call Me Wesley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 01:55 PM Response to Reply #77 |
125. The problem with drunk rape is |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 02:47 PM Response to Reply #125 |
130. Yes but legally (if not realistically) both parties are rapists since neither party is capable |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:18 PM Response to Reply #130 |
158. I dont think |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:43 PM Response to Reply #158 |
170. Oh I agree the reality is different. nt |
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Taitertots (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 06:52 PM Response to Reply #1 |
5. "Drunk rape" If she says no, or can't say no it is rape |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:35 PM Response to Reply #5 |
25. i didnt say it WASNT rape |
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Taitertots (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:44 PM Response to Reply #25 |
64. I didn't want to make it seem like you were |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:15 AM Response to Reply #64 |
101. you cannot legally |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 02:50 PM Response to Reply #101 |
131. What if it is the man who says "I did what?" Or either of a homosexual pair? |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 04:55 PM Response to Reply #131 |
148. I'm not glad |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:00 PM Response to Reply #148 |
150. What about the rest of the post you replied to?...... |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:07 PM Response to Reply #150 |
152. Sure |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:40 PM Response to Reply #152 |
166. Which is really bad for the man, not being taken seriously if raped. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:43 PM Response to Reply #166 |
168. yes and no |
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tritsofme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 12:52 PM Response to Reply #131 |
216. From what I understand, many rape laws |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 06:46 PM Response to Reply #216 |
229. I found an article from South Africa, they recently changed the law there |
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Better Today (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 06:57 PM Response to Reply #1 |
6. Why is it the guy's responsibility to not mix alcohol and sex? Why not the girl's? |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:18 PM Response to Reply #6 |
11. If a woman is too drunk to give consent, she has not given consent. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:43 PM Response to Reply #11 |
38. the sticky area |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:53 PM Response to Reply #38 |
47. "meaningful consent" is a good term. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:56 PM Response to Reply #47 |
50. I dont disagree but |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:59 PM Response to Reply #50 |
52. It can get sticky. |
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Crystal Clarity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 09:10 AM Response to Reply #50 |
113. Intoxication is no excuse for committing a crime |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 09:18 AM Response to Reply #113 |
115. did you purposefully decide to read every other word |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 02:53 PM Response to Reply #115 |
132. "intoxicated consent does not equal coerced consent IMO in situations where the male is also drunk." |
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Crystal Clarity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 03:55 PM Response to Reply #132 |
142. Under your definition then, my SO and I have been raping each other for years! |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 04:08 PM Response to Reply #142 |
143. True, either of you could have pressed charges, but you sound like you were happy |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:28 PM Response to Reply #142 |
162. actually, that was copy/pasted from previous poster |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 04:47 PM Response to Reply #132 |
147. yes, how does that mean it isn't rape? |
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Taitertots (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:47 PM Response to Reply #47 |
65. What does "intoxicated consent" mean? n/t |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:57 PM Response to Reply #65 |
67. Consent while intoxicated. You can't sign legal papers when intoxicated, you can't |
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Taitertots (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 11:52 PM Response to Reply #67 |
85. Does this apply to men too? |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:25 AM Response to Reply #85 |
86. Men can also be raped, and yes it applies to men also. You don't seem to believe |
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Taitertots (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:38 AM Response to Reply #86 |
90. Obviously you didn't read what I wrote |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:45 AM Response to Reply #90 |
92. I don't think intoxicated people can give meaningful consent. |
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Taitertots (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:48 AM Response to Reply #92 |
94. You should put that on a button if you go to a bar |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:59 AM Response to Reply #94 |
97. Getting legal consents from patients pre-surgery, they have to not be intoxicated |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:28 AM Response to Reply #97 |
104. I dont disagree |
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ManiacJoe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:07 PM Response to Reply #67 |
153. Is this just your opinion or is it legal fact? |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:14 PM Response to Reply #153 |
156. it is legal fact |
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ManiacJoe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:42 PM Response to Reply #156 |
167. Interesting set of terms. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:43 PM Response to Reply #167 |
169. at the end of the day |
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Shallah Kali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:32 PM Response to Reply #1 |
20. Meet the Predators |
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whopis01 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:14 AM Response to Reply #1 |
100. You are so right - just like those unfortunate drunk drivers |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:57 AM Response to Reply #100 |
105. it is exactly like drunk drivers |
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whopis01 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 10:01 AM Response to Reply #105 |
212. you miss the point |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 11:53 AM Response to Reply #212 |
213. Again |
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whopis01 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 01:11 PM Response to Reply #213 |
221. I do read the words that you write. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 03:12 PM Response to Reply #221 |
224. culpability does not equal excusable |
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whopis01 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 06:22 PM Response to Reply #224 |
226. I never said "culpability does not equal excusable" - That really doesn't make sense to me... |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 03:13 PM Response to Reply #221 |
225. I disagree with your definition/relation |
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whopis01 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 06:22 PM Response to Reply #225 |
227. I already responded to this in another post. I'm not sure why you repeated everything twice. n/t |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:09 PM Response to Reply #100 |
154. The differance is we don't arrest men for Drunk driving at let woman go free, nt |
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Deep13 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 06:33 PM Response to Original message |
3. All good points. Let me add one. |
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Archae (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 06:45 PM Response to Reply #3 |
4. Children CAN make it up. |
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Deep13 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:35 PM Response to Reply #4 |
27. They didn't make it up. The kids were coerced into making accusations. |
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LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:38 PM Response to Reply #27 |
30. The end result is the same-childern made the accusations. |
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Deep13 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:46 PM Response to Reply #30 |
40. I'm giving practical advice, not jury instructions. |
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aikoaiko (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:52 PM Response to Reply #40 |
46. I agree with you that an adult should take every accusation seriously |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:48 PM Response to Reply #3 |
42. simply not true in the sense you are saying it |
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Deep13 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:50 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. Juries can rely on instructions from the court. |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 06:59 PM Response to Original message |
7. Honestly the Rape is violence meme is seriously dated. |
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Warpy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:11 PM Response to Reply #7 |
8. Rape is always violent and how do you not get that? |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:17 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. You have a very narrow view of rape... fortunately the law has moved |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:20 PM Response to Reply #10 |
12. If she did not consent, it is rape. If she did not give consent, there was coercion. |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:28 PM Response to Reply #12 |
16. She can say yes and it is still rape. |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:31 PM Response to Reply #16 |
18. addressed here. |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:32 PM Response to Reply #18 |
22. see #19 |
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liquid diamond (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 10:05 PM Response to Reply #12 |
76. Please. Not all women say "yes" before having sex. n/t |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:28 AM Response to Reply #76 |
87. And not all women consent. That is called rape. Of course not all women, or men, say "yes, I am |
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liquid diamond (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:57 AM Response to Reply #87 |
96. Meaningful consent is open to interpretation. It isn't always |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:27 PM Response to Reply #10 |
15. Rape is forced, unwanted sexual intercourse. |
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Tsiyu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:32 PM Response to Reply #10 |
21. Maybe you don't understand how bodies work |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:54 PM Response to Reply #21 |
48. I have been raped. It didn't involve actual violence but it did involve the showing |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:58 PM Response to Reply #48 |
51. Coercion and a gun and you don't think any violence was involved. |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:02 PM Response to Reply #51 |
53. My perception was that the person was unstable... They showed me the gun |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:05 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. Looking back at my life as a young adult, there are things I would never do today |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:08 PM Response to Reply #54 |
57. Thank You exactly... |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:11 PM Response to Reply #57 |
60. I added... |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:14 PM Response to Reply #60 |
61. ... |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 09:53 PM Response to Reply #48 |
72. I am sorry but what you underwent was rape |
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Tsiyu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:51 AM Response to Reply #48 |
95. "I look back on it as I would a mugging" |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 01:14 AM Response to Reply #95 |
98. I think I explain it better in another post... |
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SwampG8r (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 08:42 AM Response to Reply #98 |
107. isnt it nice |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:33 PM Response to Reply #10 |
23. I think you have a narrow view of "violence" |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:37 PM Response to Reply #10 |
28. "You have a very narrow view of rape" |
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Lilith Velkor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 09:13 PM Response to Reply #28 |
68. Word. |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 09:16 PM Response to Reply #68 |
69. You owe him a major apology! |
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Lilith Velkor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 09:30 PM Response to Reply #69 |
70. He'll have to use the handcuffs on me again. |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 09:48 PM Response to Reply #70 |
71. I hate when that happens. |
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Call Me Wesley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 02:01 PM Response to Reply #28 |
126. Hey, you know, |
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Xenotime (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 02:01 PM Response to Reply #10 |
127. Agreed. Very wise observations. |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:13 PM Response to Reply #7 |
9. Rape is about control. A question and perhaps you missed this part... |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:27 PM Response to Reply #9 |
14. Both people are drunk... it is rape even if consensual... same with an age difference. |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:29 PM Response to Reply #14 |
17. And none of those involves violence? Rape is forced, unwanted sexual intercourse. |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:31 PM Response to Reply #17 |
19. All forced unwanted sexual intercourse is rape... |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:34 PM Response to Reply #19 |
24. explain what you mean, if you would. Sexual assault rather than sexual intercourse? |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:42 PM Response to Reply #24 |
36. The old narrow view of rape as a violent act that involved intercourse |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:47 PM Response to Reply #36 |
41. There can be a fine line in definitions between sexual assault and rape |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:54 PM Response to Reply #41 |
49. drunk guy |
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liquid diamond (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 10:11 PM Response to Reply #49 |
78. This is bullshit. Why the fuck is it only the man's responsibility? |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:19 AM Response to Reply #78 |
102. trust me |
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Maine-ah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 08:47 AM Response to Reply #102 |
109. but then if both parties are drunk at the time |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 09:02 AM Response to Reply #109 |
112. there is no defense for men that says |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 03:11 PM Response to Reply #112 |
134. "Rape requires penetration of the vagina, sexual intercourse." Not necessarily. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:19 PM Response to Reply #134 |
159. no it isn't universal but common |
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Brooklyns_Finest (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 01:06 PM Response to Reply #109 |
218. Thank you! |
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Withywindle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:28 AM Response to Reply #49 |
88. Well, it's complicated. |
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gleaner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:20 PM Response to Reply #7 |
13. If someone forces or coerces another person ... |
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Deep13 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:42 PM Response to Reply #7 |
35. In Ohio it's sexual conduct by force or threat of force... |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:51 PM Response to Reply #35 |
45. coerced consent is not meaningful consent, neither is intoxication. |
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LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:35 PM Response to Original message |
26. You can argue until you are blue or red in a face that |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:38 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. So? All ages and both sexes can be victims of rape. |
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LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:40 PM Response to Reply #29 |
31. So? If the rape is only about power and control, why would |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:41 PM Response to Reply #31 |
33. What, in your opinion, is rape about then? |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:07 PM Response to Reply #33 |
56. depends |
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moriah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 11:25 PM Response to Reply #31 |
82. Perhaps because they're younger, more inexperienced... |
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LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 11:28 PM Response to Reply #82 |
83. Have it ever occurred to you that a pedophile might not be |
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moriah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 11:39 PM Response to Reply #83 |
84. And why would they develop that attraction in the first place? |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 08:56 AM Response to Reply #84 |
110. it's absolutely not natural |
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Deep13 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:42 PM Response to Reply #26 |
37. Seems like the younger, the greater the risk. nt |
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SheilaT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:40 PM Response to Original message |
32. Speaking only for myself, |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:44 PM Response to Reply #32 |
39. Coercion and not taking No as No are trademarks of rape. |
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SheilaT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 07:50 PM Response to Reply #39 |
43. I certainly felt a stron sense of |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:21 PM Response to Reply #43 |
62. I guess to me it depends |
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SheilaT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 06:12 PM Response to Reply #62 |
175. What I'm trying to convey is that |
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pitohui (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:06 PM Response to Original message |
55. really? it seemed like a good time to link al gore to the definition of rape? |
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:09 PM Response to Reply #55 |
58. Because in another thread about the Al Gore allegations, people were saying things like..... |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:11 PM Response to Reply #55 |
59. I brought it up because it's a current hot thread, and wanted to make this broader |
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ismnotwasm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:29 PM Response to Original message |
63. Time for one of my favorite links |
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raccoon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 01:53 PM Response to Reply #63 |
124. Thanks for that link. nt |
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stevedeshazer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 08:56 PM Response to Original message |
66. Thank you. |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 09:56 PM Response to Original message |
73. I'm of the opinion that the "rape is about power" notion does not apply to acquaintance/date rape. |
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moriah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 10:59 PM Response to Reply #73 |
80. Does that not imply a power dynamic in your eyes? |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 11:03 PM Response to Reply #80 |
81. Good point, very true. |
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Withywindle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:38 AM Response to Reply #80 |
89. I think this is very well-said, thank you. |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:41 AM Response to Reply #80 |
91. Thank you moriah, for your input on this thread. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:23 AM Response to Reply #80 |
103. if that were always true it would be about power |
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moriah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 08:58 AM Response to Reply #103 |
111. Women teach men that being overly persistent is good? |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 09:10 AM Response to Reply #111 |
114. I'm talking about media |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 03:17 PM Response to Reply #114 |
136. Coercion does not me agressively physically pushing yourself onto someone. It can be straight psych |
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 03:30 PM Response to Reply #136 |
140. So explain to me your definition of "wooing" as opposed to "coercion" |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 04:11 PM Response to Reply #140 |
144. Persuasion vs coercion? |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:00 PM Response to Reply #144 |
149. yeah I dont agree with that |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:38 PM Response to Reply #149 |
165. Coercion can be "sex or move out". Coercion can be "sex or get out of my car miles from anywhere." |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 06:51 PM Response to Reply #165 |
178. so pretty much |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 06:58 PM Response to Reply #178 |
180. No. But you have to realize that coercion can take many forms. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:02 PM Response to Reply #180 |
181. insulting you? |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:06 PM Response to Reply #181 |
184. Strawman. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:23 PM Response to Reply #184 |
194. uh yeah, it is |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:30 PM Response to Reply #194 |
197. Yes, that is also coercion (do this or get out). Who said it isn't? |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:38 PM Response to Reply #197 |
200. look at the words used |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:05 PM Response to Reply #140 |
151. see below |
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ieoeja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 02:47 PM Response to Reply #111 |
129. Yes, they do. |
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 03:35 PM Response to Reply #129 |
141. See, you made a big mistake with your last word |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 04:16 PM Response to Reply #141 |
145. If you, god help us both, were chatting with me and just up and out grabbed me and kissed me |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:12 PM Response to Reply #145 |
155. not sure most women would agree with you |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:26 PM Response to Reply #141 |
161. I've been interested in getting laid... heck some of my best long term relationships |
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ieoeja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 09:14 AM Response to Reply #161 |
211. Same here. |
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LanternWaste (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 01:21 PM Response to Reply #141 |
222. I would imagine the confusion one feels re: advancing to a level of physical intimacy... |
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moriah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:58 PM Response to Reply #129 |
172. I'm one of those women who appreciates taking things slowly. |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 03:12 PM Response to Reply #103 |
135. Still, that implies power. The power to get what you want by being persistent. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:16 PM Response to Reply #135 |
157. just fundamentally disagree |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:32 PM Response to Reply #157 |
164. Women are either "fragile flowers" or need to be harrassed until they give in? |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 06:44 PM Response to Reply #164 |
177. pretty sure I didnt say that |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:03 PM Response to Reply #177 |
182. I am not the one dealing with dichotomous thinking here. I am asking if this is what you are saying. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:10 PM Response to Reply #182 |
186. I dont seem to be saying that at all |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:16 PM Response to Reply #186 |
190. Wrong about me. Of course people ask each other for things all the time. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:24 PM Response to Reply #190 |
195. and I see that you dont understand |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:32 PM Response to Reply #195 |
198. If you "feel" coerced, you may not be coerced. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:40 PM Response to Reply #198 |
201. then the subjective feelings |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:46 PM Response to Reply #201 |
202. Words. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:52 PM Response to Reply #202 |
203. let's work backwards |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-30-10 09:59 PM Response to Original message |
74. From experience in the field |
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Withywindle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:48 AM Response to Reply #74 |
93. Rape is so underreported |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 08:06 AM Response to Reply #93 |
106. This guy says +1,000,000,000,000 |
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Withywindle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 11:07 PM Response to Reply #106 |
205. Thank you! |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 08:45 AM Response to Reply #93 |
108. I've seen very little |
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Withywindle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 11:05 PM Response to Reply #108 |
204. I have seen an awful lot of "nuancing" of the definition of rape |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 06:40 PM Response to Reply #204 |
228. Well put. Thank you. |
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chaste labradoodle (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 11:40 AM Response to Original message |
116. I hashed out the rape/drunk girl at frat party debate with a professor of mine |
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chaste labradoodle (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 11:42 AM Response to Reply #116 |
117. Another incident which really bothered me was the Desiree Washington situation |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 11:48 AM Response to Reply #116 |
118. in a drunk/drunk situation we have two bad choices |
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chaste labradoodle (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 11:50 AM Response to Reply #118 |
119. I have heard of scenarios where the man gets the woman drunk |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:02 PM Response to Reply #119 |
120. well |
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chaste labradoodle (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:08 PM Response to Reply #120 |
121. I agree that it is pretty nebulous at times and that sometimes |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:21 PM Response to Reply #121 |
160. well at the end of the day |
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Bunny (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 02:10 PM Response to Reply #116 |
128. I think it's interesting that women are given all sorts of lectures about |
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ismnotwasm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 02:54 PM Response to Reply #128 |
133. Thank you |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 03:22 PM Response to Reply #128 |
138. Indeed. eom |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 03:19 PM Response to Reply #116 |
137. I'd answer you but you are already TS'd. bye |
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Fastcars (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 12:55 PM Response to Original message |
122. Lumping All Rapes Together Is A Dis-service.... |
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raccoon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 01:25 PM Response to Original message |
123. Boy, it sure didn't take long for somebody to come along with this "we-were-both-drunk" crap. |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 04:44 PM Response to Reply #123 |
146. ah so its so rare |
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raccoon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 07:58 AM Response to Reply #146 |
207. Considering what a woman goes through when she reports a rape, I don't think |
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qazplm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 12:21 PM Response to Reply #207 |
215. you assume those women |
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WI_DEM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 03:24 PM Response to Original message |
139. Agreed! too many people here have been incredulous that a 54-year old woman |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:30 PM Response to Reply #139 |
163. We are not incredulous because of the accuser |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 05:47 PM Response to Reply #163 |
171. Balogna. Let's look at your post... |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 06:00 PM Response to Reply #171 |
173. Yes and if the perp was a convicted rapist of some tweeker no-one would question |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 06:10 PM Response to Reply #173 |
174. "If the girl was thirty years younger and better looking one could better understand a miss-commun" |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 06:33 PM Response to Reply #174 |
176. Again if the accused was a rapist I would be on board... |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 06:53 PM Response to Reply #176 |
179. Only accused rapists sexually assault 54 yr old "girls". Psst, we are talking assault, not rape in |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:03 PM Response to Reply #179 |
183. So you are saying Al Gore would hit on a 51 year old woman that looked like that... |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:08 PM Response to Reply #183 |
185. I am saying that a 54 yr old woman who looked like that could be sexually assaulted. |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:11 PM Response to Reply #185 |
188. Of course a 54 year old woman could be sexually assulted... |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:19 PM Response to Reply #188 |
192. This thread is about rape. |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:28 PM Response to Reply #192 |
196. Nobody is incredulous a 54 year old woman could be sexually assaulted |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:35 PM Response to Reply #196 |
199. Nobody is? hahahahahahaha. |
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seabeyond (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 08:17 AM Response to Reply #196 |
209. you said in one post, if she was young and attractive..... so ya, some people |
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moriah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:13 PM Response to Reply #183 |
189. You say that like she's a dog or something. |
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SunnySong (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:18 PM Response to Reply #189 |
191. I think Al Gore deserves and has earned all benefit of the doubt... |
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moriah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:20 PM Response to Reply #191 |
193. I don't know him well enough to say yes or no. |
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seabeyond (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 08:15 AM Response to Reply #173 |
208. i guess is the difference between men and women with this issue. and a reason men cannot comprehend |
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usregimechange (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 07:10 PM Response to Original message |
187. thanks for posting |
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flvegan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-01-10 11:17 PM Response to Original message |
206. Rape is violence. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 08:26 AM Response to Reply #206 |
210. Rape is sex and violence |
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ismnotwasm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 12:17 PM Response to Reply #210 |
214. No |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 12:54 PM Response to Reply #214 |
217. I just don't see the point of denying that it is an act of *sexual* violence |
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ismnotwasm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 01:06 PM Response to Reply #217 |
219. I understand your point |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 01:08 PM Response to Reply #219 |
220. I think your view of "sex" may be more positive than mine |
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Cetacea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-02-10 01:48 PM Response to Original message |
223. I was raped at gunpoint. |
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