WARNING -- Honda ST1300s "high speed weave"

[eppur_se_muova]

It seems this affects only the police version of the ST1300, for some fairly specific reasons, but it seemed like information worth passing on.

The {coroner's} inquest in Lancaster heard that the bike began to shake violently in a phenomenon known as high speed weave {and the rider was thrown in the path of a truck}.
***
In one test an examiner broke his leg and fractured both wrists after being thrown off in another high speed weave.

One Lancashire Constabulary examiner, Peter Wilson, reported the problem was "the worst weave on any bike he had tested in his career", the inquest heard.

Merseyside Police immediately withdrew all models from service after the accident, but there are about 450 police Honda ST1300s being used by officers across the country.

The inquest was told that problems affected only police models of the motorcycle with their heavy emergency and communications equipment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/6600897.stm

[Greyhound]

1. It's called wobble here , and that isn't nearly descriptive enough.

There are many causes for it, bad tires, mis-adjusted shocks, wheels misaligned, pad dragging, tweaked frame, etc.

It will really scare the crap out of you if you ever experience it, absolutely no warning, the bike is just instantly out of control.:scared:

[dmallind]

2. I have one (non police) and can speak to this

One of the (very few) issues with the ST13 is its tendency to react badly to "dirty air" turbulence from trucks. For most experienced riders in most cases (and the ST is not exactly something that generally appeals to inexperienced or starter riders let's be honest) this is no big deal. Like many wobbles it is best handled by NOT gripping too heavily on the bars and maintaining a steady line.

However two things exacerbate this - extra weight above COG (like a loaded police top box for example) and rapid changes in speed and direction (like a pursuit or emergency call response for example).

It's also possible that some police riders are gripping too hard. Yes they are well trained and experienced riders, but that's no blanket immunity from poor habits. I'm sure I have some too - we all develop them without constant attention. This may be especially true if the riders came from a more upright bike (most UK bike cops in my day rode the BMW R series which would certainly qualify). The ST is after all a bit of a sport tourer as opposed to outright tourer and the riding position is slightly leaned forward compared to say a Gold Wing or Harley or BMW R/T. Unless you actively retrain your body to adapt to this riding position by bending from the hips rather than the waist etc, the tendency is to put a lot more weight on your wrists, which leads to a heavier grip and more twitichiness in the handlebars. Again, experience is no immunity. I did the same thing the last time I rode a much sportier bike than the ST.

All anyone can offer here is subjective opinion and that goes for police riders too. The ST boards definitely address the issue and it certainly exists, but by far the greatest impact is generally agreed to come from poor setup and inappropriate ergonomic position by the rider. All I personally can offer as far from the best or technically proficient rider out there, but a very experienced one with many miles on ST's and other bikes, is that I feel some buffets occasionally when passing large trucks, but have never had a problem riding through them quite easily and stably, including in some pretty windy areas like the Nebraska prairies.

[ThomWV]

3. Is called a "High speed Wobble" everywhere I've ever heard it, and they are terrifying

This is not the shaking you get in dirty air, its nothing at all like that. A high speed wobble comes on all at once at some certain speed and when they happen the wobble rapidly increases in amplitude. Any mistaken attempt to slow down by hitting the front brake will immediately 'high side' the rider, meaning the bike will slam itself into the ground throwing the rider over the handle bars.

I do not think that bad tires very often cause high speed wobbles. I say that for two reasons, first being that I believe that the condition that cause wobble is responsible for the tire wear, not the other way around, but the other reason is that from experience I've driven bikes will every stage of crappy tire on them without any wobble, but I've had a wobble on a bike with perfectly fine tires. Same thing can be said for brake problems, which can only cause wobbles only if there is extreme flex in either the front end or the swing arm - neither of which is likely on a bike that hasn't been wrecked.

I think what causes wobbles most commonly is wheel misalignment. It can come one of four ways, a bent frame, a bent front end, a bent swing arm, or the most likely way, a poorly adjusted rear wheel. I am sure they almost all come from the last cause.

When people adjust rear wheels, even at dealerships, they will take into account chain play or belt tension but very very few of them every bother to make sure the rear wheel is in alignment with the front wheel (and steering stem center). Both wheels must be pointing straight ahead. If the front end is not bent the front wheel will be in alignment, but the rear wheel may be or may not be depending on how much attention the last guy who adjusted it was paying. Most pay no more attention other than to line up a couple of rough casting marks. Some folks will go so far as to break out a tape measure and find some reference point to make the same on both sides. There is a more sure way to do it if you want to make sure your's is right.

Get two light weight straight edges. Long neon light bulbs work very well for this but absolutely straight lengths of plastic tubing can be used, you''ll also need about 4 feet of rubber surgical tubing. Put the bike up on a jack or have someone hold it upright with the front wheel pointed straight ahead while you do this. Lay one straight edge along side the rear wheel on each side so they extend past the front wheel. Lift them up and tie the tubing around them in front of and behind the rear wheel so that they are clamped to it, one on each side. Now measure from the straight edge to the outside edge of the front wheel. The measurement should be exactly the same for both sides if your wheels track true. If that measurement is not exactly the same you simply adjust the rear wheel until it is. Very easy fix. Please note though that on a very few bikes there is a wheel offset and so you have to take it into account. The point is that both wheels have to be trying to roll in the same direction, if they do not then you can expect a problem - be it excessive tire wear, poor general handling (wheel hop when going around turns), or in the very worst case a high speed wobble.

Hope this help someone.

[smoochy]

4. Poor tires

I'm sorry; but so called dirty air, poor/cupped tires, and ever so slightly tweaked rotors ALL contribute to a high speed wobble/tank slapper. Sport tires, such as those equipped on ST's, if improperly worn/cupped will begin to promote a wobble, which can quickly turn into a tank slapper. Slightly tweaked rotors, triple trees, bearings, etc. all often contribute too.

Yes, poor rear wheel alignment is a problem. However the vast majority of people simply adjust per the swing arm markings, which are notoriously off if you have a proper suspension shop with lasers check. Most people ride with ever so slightly off, rear wheel alignment and never experience a tank slapper.