a modest proposal for an introductory exercise

[iverglas]

Many here are probably familiar with www.politicalcompass.org

If you have done it and remember your results, tell us. If not, take the quiz - and read around the site, it is really very interesting.

I just thought it would be kinda fun to see where people here who identify as "socialist progressives" fall on the graph. I have quibbles with the quiz, and don't think that outcomes within one or two points on either axis probably distinguish accurately between takers of it, but overall it's pretty good.

I'm not really familiar with the term "socialist progressives". "Social democrat" and "democratic socialist" are what I'm more used to, and kinda fond of. My own positions are largely circumstance-dictated: I find it rather pointless to call myself "a socialist" in the present-day world, for instance.

In the here (me in Canada, most of the rest of you in the US) and now, advocating nationalization of all resource industries, say, would just be kinda silly. As would abolishing private ownership of residential (rental) property. But advocating strict oversight of pricing in oligopolic industries, and giving tenants statutory security of tenure and prohibiting rent gouging, would have a most beneficial effect. And then those things become the norm, and the next generation moves on.

Well, sometimes it skips a generation. ;) But I believe in human progress, and I think history is on my side.

So basically, revolution is out for now, I'd say.

Anyhow, I'll post my results in a separate post. No peeking at other people's results til you've done the quiz!

... oh ye gods, I just did the one at
http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/quiz.php
again for the hell of it, out of curiosity to see where we might all end up on that one. I'm A Liberal. Please, don't believe it.

[iverglas]

1. well alrighty then

As of last week:

Economic Left/Right: -7.38 (left)
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.44 (libertarian)

Oops, I just did it again to get a copy-able graph, and my mood has changed:

Economic Left/Right: -8.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.95

Must have felt more strongly about something today. ;)

Aargh, can't get the graph to copy, but -10/-10 is the bottom left-hand corner point.

[jgraz]

8. Left/Right: -9.25, Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.36

Do I win something?

[Warpy]

17. I'm falling off the southwest edge, actually

It sounds like we're coming from the same place.

[Odin2005]

2. Economic: -8.50; Social: -5.95

[iverglas]

3. now that's funny

I've always had the impression that a majority of DUers, say the middle third of the bell curve, would be reversed, in terms of proportions -- of course way to the right of you on both axes, but more "libertarian" (social) than "left" (economic).

Huh, eh?

Funny to run into someone who's more left than libertarian.

[Odin2005]

6. Yeah, I have somewhat of a communitarian streak.

I am a social liberal, but I'm not really a big fan of "libertine" behavior. I'm not a "no sex before marriage" prude, but for Christ's sake wait till you're going steady.

[scarletwoman]

4. I've done this one a couple times over the past few years. I'm in the far lower left corner of the

left quadrant -- I don't remember my most recent score, only that I'm just about over the edge. :D

sw

[iverglas]

5. good

my expectations were not too high, so far. ;)

Time to go make dinner ...

[IChing]

9. Actually I would like to see a three dimensional vs. a two dimensional

test.


Not a bad test but it leaves us looking at that map that doesn't involve calculus
in the equations.

Not bad ,but it is still a two dimensional evaluation of philosophical standings without
taking in the third dimension which makes it real.

That said is why I don't total agree with didactic Marxists explanations of any economic, philosophical
religious, economic or sociological concepts.

But he was a great thinker back then
the evolution of progressive socialist thought can evolve into something more
three dimensional than a dichotomy. That might be progressive.

[iverglas]

15. your math may have exceeded my grasp

(frankly, I do tend to think of the scores on this quiz as correlating with IQ ;) ) and we may not be thinking about the same thing -- but here's the third dimension I have in mind:

... aargh, have changed computers, don't have the bookmark, can't find the site. Anyhow, "third generation of rights". The libertarian-authoritarian scale is the first, liberté. The left-right scale is the second, égalité. And the third is fraternité, or solidarity rights: the right to a clean environment, the right to national self-determination, etc.

http://www.eycb.coe.int/compass/en/chapter_4/4_2.html

Third generation rights (collective rights)

The list of internationally recognised human rights has not remained constant. Although none of the rights listed in the UDHR has been brought into question in the 50 or so years of its existence, new treaties and documents have clarified and further developed some of the basic concepts that were laid down in that original document.

These additions have been a result of a number of factors: they have partly come about as a response to changing ideas about human dignity, partly as a result of technological changes and often as a result of new threats emerging. In the case of the specific new category of rights that have been proposed as a third generation, these have been the consequence of a deeper understanding of the different types of obstacles that may stand in the way of realising the first and second generation rights. Increasing globalisation has also revealed the possibility for resources to be diverted towards the removal of these obstacles.

The specific rights that are most commonly included within the category of third generation rights are the rights to development, to peace, to a healthy environment, to share in the exploitation of the common heritage of mankind, to communication and to humanitarian assistance. ...

Regarding the dispute referred to here:

There is, however, a debate concerning this new category of rights. Some experts object to the idea that collective rights can be termed 'human' rights. Human rights are, by definition, held by individuals, and define the area of individual interest that is to be given priority over any interests of society or social groups. In contrast, collective rights are held by communities or even whole states.

The debate is not so much over whether these rights exist but whether or not they are to be classed as human rights. The argument is more than merely verbal, because some people fear such a change in terminology could provide a 'justification' for certain repressive regimes to deny (individual) human rights in the name of these collective human rights; for example, severely curtailing civil rights in order to secure 'economic development'. There is another concern which is sometimes expressed: since it is not the state but the international community that is meant to safeguard third generation rights, accountability is impossible to guarantee. Who, or what, is supposed to be responsible for making sure that there is peace in the Caucasus or Palestine?

-- I don't see the problem. First, groups of human beings are human. Human beings exist both as individuals and as members of groups; DNA alone does not define what is "human". And the fact is that these "rights" are already recognized to some extent. Sometimes the concept is expressed as "no rights are absolute", sometimes there is simply an implicit recognition that group interests take precedence over individual interests (no shouting "fire" in crowded theatres when there is no fire, no lying under oath, no advertising snake oil to cure cancer -- all exercises of free speech, an individual human right, but all prohibited in modern societies). In Canada, it is expressly recognized in the 1982 constitution:

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

I suspect you had something quite different in mind when you said:

That said is why I don't total agree with didactic Marxists explanations of any economic, philosophical religious, economic or sociological concepts.

but what the heck. I never did pursue my Marxist studies, and have probably been immersed in "liberal" rights theory for far too long. ;)

[robinlynne]

7. That was fun. left-right: -8.00 auth/lib: -6.46

never thought I would be called a libertarian by anyone, even a graph....

[Tyler Durden]

10. No surprises here.

theadvocates scores me solid liberal, and the politicalcompass scores me Economic Left/Right: -8.50, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.49, sort of Anarcho-Collectivist, Left and South of the Dalai Lama, exact opposite of GW.

[Tyler Durden]

11. Thanks for suggesting this, by the way.

The general trend so far appears to support the "Socialists who are Progressive" intent of the page.

[iverglas]

20. yr welcome!

Maybe it should be the entrance exam. ;)

[zanne]

dupe

[zanne]

12. Some of the questions could've been more detailed, but....

Economic -8.75 Social -7.54

[Cerridwen]

13. I'm not sure how I moved to the "right" on the economic scale...

Perhaps it's how the questions were worded...I think the first time I took it I was -9 something on the economic scale.

Economic Left/Right -8.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -9.08

I'm very happy (and sad) to see this group here. I still tend to think "socialist" ideals are mainstream democratic. It seems the decades of propaganda against all things "socialist" has taken its toll; even on the Democrats.

Anyhoo, hey, all! Just checkin' in with my creds. Looks like I might be a little south-left of the norm even here. :D

[LWolf]

14. My results:

Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.59

I've taken this test many times, and my results are always in the same general region. Differences occur because I am ambivalent, or don't find the answer I want, on a few questions, so I don't always answer them the same way.

[Greyhound]

16. Just did it for the first time this year.

Economic Left/Right: -7.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.87

Getting more liberal by the hour.

[Paulie]

18. -6.13 and -6.26

Almost dead center in square. Which square in Whoopi in? :D

[TommyPaine]

19. Fourth time I've taken this test in the past two years...

...and my results remain in the same neighborhood.

(today's test)
Economic Left/Right: -8.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03

I've stayed about the same on the Social scale (prior three tests were in the range of -4.5 and -5.5), while I've drifted DANGEROUSLY CLOSE TO COMMUNISM *gasp* on the Economic scale. My prior three Economic scores were in the neighborhood of -6.5 and -8.0. I've taken several other political compass tests and have scored everywhere between "moderately liberal" (center-left) to near-anarchist. This particular test seems accurate enough, though "Social" should be split into two sections (Government and Personal, something along those lines), necessitating a Z-axis.

[entanglement]

21. Economic Left/Right: -8.75; Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.10

:hi:

[EV_Ares]

22. Down in the lower left:

[Jim Warren]

23. -8.88/-4.97

Economic Left/Right: -8.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.97

Mnnnn......slightly down and to the left of Gandhi and the Dalai Lama...and I wondered if perhaps old age would have mellowed me some.

[trackfan]

24. Economic Left/Right: -7.88; Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.77

[jmm]

25. I've read that the second quiz has a libertarian bias.

The last time I took it I charted in the liberal area but it still said I was libertarian :shrug:.

Here's my score on the first one-


Economic Left/Right: -8.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.72

[a kennedy]

26. My political compass

Economic Left/Right: -6.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.79

[Greyhound]

27. The Libertarian test pegs me as a fringe liberal (100% personal, 20% economic) n/t

[I Have A Dream]

28. Economic Left/Right: -7.75 & Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03 n/t

[stimbox]

29. Economic Left/Right: -9.63 / Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.77

Your political compass

Economic Left/Right: -9.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.77

[leftofthedial]

30. I seem to have moved upward in the social dimension

Economic Left/Right: -10.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.85


although it might have been a typo or two due to all the badly worded quesions. What with all the double negatives, this was nearly as bad as trying to decipher a referendum written by right wingnuts.

[cannabis_flower]

31. My results of the 2 tests...

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -8.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.41



LIBERALS usually embrace freedom of choice in personal

matters, but tend to support significant government control of the

economy. They generally support a government-funded "safety net"
to help the disadvantaged, and advocate strict regulation

of business. Liberals tend to favor environmental regulations,

defend civil liberties and free expression, support government action

to promote equality, and tolerate diverse lifestyles.

[readmoreoften]

32. Economic Left/Right: -9.75, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.08

So I guess that means I'm voting for McCain, right? Only because Duncan Hunter didn't get the nomination.

[kdmorris]

33. Still in the same place LOL

Guess age hasn't mellowed me any:

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -9.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

[LWolf]

34. I've done this many times,

so I didn't do it again. Especially since I see this thread is a year old, and I have one reply upthread already, lol.

I'm always to the left and south of Gandhi, if that helps. The degree of separation sometimes varies.

[amyrose2712]

35. Economic Left/Right: -8.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.90

I think I may not have understood a couple of the questions properly. I still am a little iffy about free trade vs fair trade. Economics is not my strong subject.

[OrwellwasRight]

36. Economic Left/Right: -8.38; Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.67

It's about right. I'm not far into libertarianism socially because I think that we live in a community and we should act like it. It is important to be kind and neighborly and responsible to each other, thinking about how our actions impact others before we act. We should act like role models, not greedy, self-absorbed sole actors, relying on private police in gated communities. Also, as somebody else said, I'm not really down with being "libertine."

So, for example, though I agree pornography should be legal because I oppose censorship, I would never choose the "strongly agree" position. I would prefer a society in which it is legal but not pervasive because people see the damage it can do to young women and their perceptions of themselves and what is "normal" sexually. If that makes any sense.

On the second test, I am a liberal: PERSONAL issues Score is 80%, ECONOMIC issues Score is 20%

[Two Americas]

37. reviving this

I am -10 and -10 on the test.