tonight was a reminder of why I don't come to DU much anymore

[Muttocracy]

I haven't followed every twist and turn of the health care debate, but it seems like the bill tonight was a few baby steps toward better health care policy. But instead of celebrating, DU dissolves into praise of Kucinich for voting against it vs. those of us saying, um, no. Why do I get sucked into these things?

[PatSeg]

1. Yeah, it gets a bit contentious out there

I've found there are certain topics where "liberal" as in "open-minded" just doesn't seem to be very prevalent. I had some opinions on a couple of topics, but when I checked some of the posts, I saw that people were closed minded and some were flat out rude. I like being liberal and as such, I am interested in other people's perspective, but when they start talking in absolutes, I'm turned off.

You can be sure if Kucinich's name comes up, it will be one of those threads. He's a great guy, but his supporters are often a real turnoff.

[jillan]

2. I just saw that - and I am shocked-

Ya know - Dennis also voted against S-Chip because it wasn't everything he wanted.

What was that Rolling Stones song - You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find - you get what you need....

It's called compromise Dennis.

[PatSeg]

5. Unfortunately Dennis is always "making a statement"

instead of legislating. I remember when he was running for president, he would frequently cite the House resolutions that he wrote, without mentioning that very few of them ever passed. This bill isn't close to what we need, but we have to start somewhere. Improvements can be made later down the road.

[Eurobabe]

3. I hardly EVER come to DU anymore

in fact, since landing home, I have come to think that most of America has blown a gasket or something! :crazy: Our "culture" has degenerated into something freaking unidentifiable. Welcome to the land of trash, degraded infrastructure, marketers pushing false need for cheap products and every second person looking glazed and crazy.

Where is the America I knew and loved? Sheesh. I sadly don't think it exists anymore.

[gateley]

4. I agree -- don't think it exists anymore.

I was just listening to Thom Hartmann and he cited Germany and other European countries that, while facing an economic depression themselves, have low percentages of unemployment.

He said they create jobs (as did Roosevelt and Nixon) and that the wealth of the country comes from US, the middle class, spending our money. If we're not working, we have no money to spend.

He makes a lot of sense. He asked if it was time for the US to become more Euro in its approach. I, and many here, would say 'yes!', but I fear the vast majority would fear it, not really understanding what it meant.

Sigh.

Welcome home anyway. :pals:

[Eurobabe]

8. Plus we do not save $$

We are trained like Pavlov's dogs to spend every last dime we make or have. Why save for a rainy day? :shrug:

Yes, even though the Euro zone is going through tough times, the UNEM is low, and people just tighten their belts and do without. It doesn't make their economy come to a grinding halt, and no one is screaming with a bullhorn: GO INTO DEBT, CASH IN YOUR LAST SHECKLES, IT's THE END OF THE WORLD!! BUY, SPEND!!

I pretty much think America is fucked for a long time, wish I could be more optimistic. :nuke:

[PatSeg]

6. I can imagine the shock of coming back to

all this insanity. I think years of ultra-consumerism and apathy have brought us to where we are now. Sadly I think the hard times we're seeing are inevitable if we're going to see any positive change. I am optimistic that things will change, but it will be a long, hard road for many.

[jillan]

7. I remember when we went to British Columbia, Canada.

We flew into Seattle and rented a car and drove across the border. I'm talking over 10 years ago. Even back then, there was
a difference. When we got into Canada we couldn't believe how clean, pristine and friendly it was.

I can't imagine that comparison now. America definitely needs a focus. We need something to be proud of once again. Like making the best car in the world, electronics - or how about being the leader in green energy?
Unfortunately for this administration, all they are doing is playing catch-up.

[Eurobabe]

9. Yep, Bush & Cronies killed the US

that is evident. I wonder if Obama is wondering 'WTF did I take THIS job??' Poor guy, what a mess to clean up, and where to start.

Canada has always been very "European" - I don't know what it is in the American psyche that causes some of us to destroy and pollute like we do? To me it is just appalling to see how far down the ladder the US has slipped, in four short years! :wow:

[Muttocracy]

10. that saddens me except I'm glad Canada and Europe haven't lost their minds

I hope we can borrow from them. I spent a couple of summers in Canada and it is just such a nicer culture - less extremes of poverty and wealth, although I know the First Nations there have challenges and there are pockets of poverty. And just a different attitude toward treating people. I remember getting laughed at because I got out to pump my own gas, assuming I'd have to pay more for "full serve" at the gas station :blush:

[PatSeg]

12. I think Obama loves what he's doing

as hard as that job may be. He seems to have been born for the job.

I think the excessive consumerism has been with us before Bush came into office and things just snowballed over the last eight years. His disastrous presidency woke a lot of people up though and many apolitical people started to get involved. I think there is still hope.

[ribrepin]

11. I don't come here much anymore either

Sometimes it's hard to believe I am on a Democratic leaning site. I am not a real lefty, but I believe in a better life for the middle class...not lefty purity. Sometimes I think they should rename this site the hard left underground and right to carry site.

My mood's been pretty negative lately.