You guys -

[jillan]

I need a hug. Mark has gone ballistic because HCR passed. I don't think I can take this much longer.
He has been brainwashed by all the hate talk, and thinks its me that's been brainwashed.

Anybody have any hugs they can send my way? :(

[gateley]

1. Aw, P --

:hug:

and from the rest of the group :grouphug:

I don't know what, if anything, can help. Rachel did a great job (simple!) explaining what we get, but I don't know if he'd listen and really hear.

I can only hope that he sees that things aren't as dire as those assholes have been saying it will be, and he'll calm down and realize that life is still okay. But that'll take a while, so until then... :hug:

And - look at these guys, you just gotta KNOW it'll be all right!

[jillan]

2. Thanks gateley!!

I tried to explain it, but I'm just brainwashed :P It's just amazing what goes on in their heads...too ugly to put in print.


Rachel was great tonite, she always is. I love her, watch her every nite.


Thanks for the hugs, they felt good :)

[PatSeg]

5. Gee, I must be brainwashed as well

I try to understand different points of view, but in this case I just can't. There is no logic to what the right is saying and most of it seems to be fear based, but I can't figure out what they are afraid of. I understand what republican politicians are doing, being they're bought and paid for by corporate America, but I can't believe how gullible their followers are.

[jillan]

7. There are going to be new taxes.

OMG the sky is falling. I don't mind paying taxes for things I believe in. I do get pissed, however, when I see the same road ripped up times in a year. They are always ripping up the roads here. That pisses me off.

[PatSeg]

8. The thing is

most people are getting so many tax breaks, that they are paying LESS in taxes than before, but people hear the republican politicians talking about MORE taxes and they assume they will be paying more. They still don't realize that Bush gave the wealthy over a trillion dollars in tax cuts. These are the same people who believe HCR reform pays for abortions. Uninformed people are really scary.

[gateley]

10. Really, that seems to be all they care about. During these discussions the

Dems would talk about the care, those in need, the ripping off by insurance companies, the R's would focus on the cost.

[PatSeg]

16. AND they lied about the cost

They're still lying about it. What part of "reducing the deficit" don't they understand? Well, actually we know they understand, but they don't want their constituents to know that.

[gateley]

18. It's like every issue we fight about, they twist it in a way to support their agenda

I mentioned in a couple of posts that it reminded me of debate class -- give me the topic, the stance, and I can offer the argument that my side is 'right'.

A DUer said it reminded him of law school -- learning how to present the facts of your guilty client's case, in a way that proved the client was innocent.

And, we can convince ourselves of these things, too -- I often wonder how often they've convinced themselves they're right, just so they can sleep at night.

[PatSeg]

19. I posted about debate class in a thread

a couple of weeks ago. It really taught me how to see both sides of any issue, BUT we had to deal with facts not made-up BS and we lost points if we interjected emotions into the debate.

Years ago I got into some very healthy discussions with conservatives, but these days I can't find a conservative who is willing to use facts to make a point. It is all opinions based on misleading talking points and they don't even listen. Clearly they never took debate class or they flunked the course. I know there has to still be some level headed conservatives out there, but I think they're being quiet right now, as they are probably too embarrassed by the tea party crowd. We really need that balance again.

Maybe some of these people who are trying to convince themselves they're right are still coping with the fact that they voted for Bush twice and can't admit they were wrong.

[PatSeg]

4. Rachel was great tonight

As much as I have problems with HCR, I did understand it better after she explained it. Watching her is always an education.

[gateley]

11. As usual, she helped me understand it far better than any other explanation

I've heard. I so agree about it being an education.

[PatSeg]

17. It is refreshing

after listening to the talking-heads all day, most of whom just repeat the same things over and over again. I enjoy that to a certain degree, but I really like being informed and Rachel is a natural born teacher.

[PatSeg]

3. Big hugs from me!

Can't believe he buys into the bogus crap the right is throwing around. What on earth does he think will happen? Of course, just look at how horrible Social Security and Medicare turned out!

[jillan]

6. It's more the mentality of why should I do anything for you.

That's how they think. He worked for the post office, has great healthcare, so screw those that don't. It's just sick. Our family has had our share of medical issues - you think that would've been an eye opener. When Olbermann talked about his dad and how thankful he was everyday that they had good healthcare and how it hurt him to think there was people that didn't....that's how i was when Jenny was hospitalized for so long. I thought about that so much - what if we didn't have healthcare - she probably wouldn't be with us anymore and you can't help but think about the other mothers that couldn't give their child a chance to keep on living. I guess repugs don't think that way. Never see past their own noses.


So if I do go talk to an attorney and s/he asks why do I want a divorce - do you think I should answer "healthcare reform"? ;)

[PatSeg]

9. Yeah, people with that mentality

go through life with their blinders on and when misfortune hits them, they are quick to take advantage of any programs the government offers. After all, they paid for it! But everyone else is a loser and a free-loader. There really are two kinds of people in the world and the contrast is stunning. We've even seen some of the "why should I do anything for you" crowd here at DU. They show no empathy for people who are losing their homes or the ones who have lost their jobs and are burdened with overwhelming debt. "There but for fortune......." just never enters their tiny brains.

Oh yes, I think Healthcare reform is a legitimate grounds for divorce!

[jillan]

13. When Mark retired from the Post Office he applied for SS disability.

His foot is all messed up from delivering mail. You can be sure I called him a socialist the whole time he was filling out the paperwork, and yes - he told me he paid into it and deserved it. me me me.

[PatSeg]

14. Exactly!!!

He is a classic republican. When it is "me", it is okay because "I" deserve it.

I wonder how many people who yelled "socialism" back when the Medicare bill was in Congress didn't accept Medicare when they retired. Even John McCain with his wife's millions, collects Social Security and uses Medicare. They're all a bunch of damn socialists!!!

[gateley]

20. Somebody posted a link to FR the other day, with Freeps whining about what

they were going to do if this passes.

One person said s/he lived on a farm in mid Kentucky that the government paid them $800 some dollars to buy, and even if their $245 property tax doubled, they could afford to live there for the rest of their lives. Do they not see the disconnect there? Like you said, when it's ME, it's not socialism. :eyes:

And, how did they get that deal -- being paid to buy land? I want to find out, then you can all come and live with me there! It'll be a Biden Commune! :rofl:

[PatSeg]

21. I was chatting with a relative online

and she said something about her being a republican (not that she ever votes). We basically see eye-to-eye on most things, but I couldn't believe she identified with republicans anymore. We didn't get into a discussion about politics as I warned her that I was very involved.

Afterwords I thought of all the government programs she has used in her life. I remember when she was on welfare, I know she must have collected unemployment at some time, and now she collects Social Security. All these programs came from Democrats. What did republicans ever do for her? All her kids seem to be liberals though.

We are very close and thank god she isn't a wingnut, so I'll just stay away from the subject. I just don't understand why she still identifies with a party that does not serve her best interests. I guess old habits die hard and we were raised in a republican household, but our parents were pretty liberal about social issues.

A Commune? Hmmmm, like in COMMUNISM? OMG!!! But, but, but what about self-reliance and individual responsibility? And what about ME, ME, ME.............

[gateley]

12. They play on their fear. It's shameful. We all have concerns and fears that

we feel may threaten our survival -- those assholes whip it into a frenzy and keep adding untruths to make it even more incendiary.

[PatSeg]

15. And most of us are vulnerable to fear

but these people are so gullible, they'll believe anything..........except if it's fact-based.

[jillan]

22. I'm seriously thinking about getting this keychain....what do you think?

http://www.zazzle.com/annoy_a_conservative_reelect_obama_products_keychain-146300386340162916

That site doesn't let me copy the pic - sorry!

[PatSeg]

23. Oh yes

and get one for your husband too! I know he'll love it!!!!