Reply #28: People is a collective term, it means person plural [View All]

[Liberal Classic]

Main Entry: 1col·lec·tive
Pronunciation: k&-'lek-tiv
Function: adjective
Date: 15th century
1 : denoting a number of persons or things considered as one group or
whole <flock is a collective word>
2 a : formed by collecting : AGGREGATED b of a fruit : MULTIPLE
3 a : of, relating to, or being a group of individuals b : involving all members
of a group as distinct from its individuals
4 : marked by similarity among or with the members of a group
5 : collectivized or characterized by collectivism
6 : shared or assumed by all members of the group <collective
responsibility>
- col·lec·tive·ly adverb


However, there are some people that interpret the word 'people' to be defintion #3b, which is the collective as an entity distinct from its individuals, as in denotation #5 collectivism.

``The right of the people to be secure in their persons...''

What does this mean if people means collective distinct from its individuals? No, it means people, you and me, we have the right to be secure in our persons. At least in theory. How do modern drug tests violate our right to be secure in our person? How do no-knock warrants violate our right to be secure in our houses? What about the so-called Patriot Act, does it violate our right to be secure in our papers and effects? In my opinion, all these examples are violations of our individual rights under the 4th amendment.

However, if secutity is interpreted as a collective right, a right to security of the group as distinct from the members, does this not change the meaning significantly? Of course it does. Let's say the collective not the individual has the right to be secure. What does this mean? Plainly, it means the group has the right to search and seize the individual with impunity, because the individual simply has no rights under the 4th amendment. The group may issue warrants supported by no oath, describing nothing, to investigate any thing the group decides as dangerous for any reason. Under this interpretation the group has rights over the individual, and the individual has no rights over the group. The group may investigate individuals with no rules governing conduct of officers of the law.

I believe this interpretation leads to tyranny. This is why I oppose the so-called Patriot Act. It flies in face of the 4th amendment, with its secret searches and seizures ordered by sealed orders. However, if rights are collective, the group has the right to do things the Patriot Act says they do, because the group has the right to be secure and can investigate individuals however it wants.