Reply #51: Let's take one of my points and see if it is either hand waving or a straw man. [View All]

[eomer]

My point:

Another "scientific criticism" in that thread is the comparison of the spectra of elements between the red/grey chips and thermite. You conclude that there are differences between the two spectra and therefore the chips aren't thermite. But this analysis is grossly flawed, scientifically. It is based on an implicit assumption that all thermite has the same chemical composition, an assumption that is patently false. There are many different ways to put together a compound that is thermite. Not only can there be many different superfluous ingredients -- contaminants that do not add to the thermitic nature of the compound but also do not interfere with it -- but there are also different basic ingredients that can be combined to make thermite.

Is it hand waving? Hand waving means using a bunch of words that sound good but fail to put forth a substantive argument or to actually address the question.

But the substantive argument is clearly there in my point. It is that you have only demonstrated that the chip sample does not match just one particular sample of thermite but have not, as you claim, ruled out thermite in general. Your broader claim is obviously false since there are many different ways to make thermite and many different chemical signatures of compounds that are thermite. Therefore, showing that the chip sample does not match just one instance of thermite shows only that it does not match that one instance of thermite. It does not show that it would not match any one of a large number of other ways that thermite can be made. Not only did I provide a substantive argument, it is an argument that shows your point is plainly and obviously false.

Is my point a straw man? It is a straw man only if I made up the point that I attributed to you and then refuted. But here is the direct quote of your point and it is clear that you did make the point that I attributed to you:

The red spectra is from Jones' paint chips. The orange spectra (reproduced twice) is of thermite. These spectras show which elements are in a sample and how much of each element is there (as opposed to a powder diffusion test that will show the presence of actual compounds and their quantities).

The arrows are comparing the heights of various element spikes. As you can see, various elements are present in both spectra, but they are hardly a match. This means that Jones' chips are not thermite.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=240060&mesg_id=240860">Post #342