Reply #27: OUCH! [View All]

[Sweet Pea]

Spanked by the ATC!

I used my words poorly.

"The practical limitations..." comment was indeed address towards why aircraft have speed limitations at specific altitudes and shouldn't have been aligned with the FAA 250 knt rule below 10k. For example, the F-14 program was issued these restrictions in 1996 for a period of time based on aircraft engine problems:

The following requirements and limitations are intended to
permit safe operation of the F-14 aircraft pending completion of
the investigations:
-- F-14A and B aircraft will fly at less than 550 knots when
below 10,000 feet altitude.
-- F-14B aircraft will have use of afterburners restricted
when below 10,000 feet altitude.
-- F-14D aircraft will fly at less than 550 knots when below
10,000 feet altitude (below 17,000 feet if Phoenix fairings are
installed) and will also have restricted afterburner use when
below 10,000 feet altitude.

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/news/navywire/nwsa96/nwsa0227.txt

Again, my bust for equating this with the FAA restriction of speed and altitude.

The noise abatement and sequencing comment was based on my experience flying in and around military bases for most of the 10 yr period from 1985 to 1995. Base course rules were specific with regards to flying in and around the field TCA (terminal control area) and if one busted them it was likely the pilot became the instructor for the Base Course Rules lecture. In addition, most of these military airfields, over time, have ended up in the middle of extremely populated residential areas and as such the course rules were written with that at least partially in mind.

With regards to enforcement of the 250 kt/10K rule, only speaking for myself, FAR 91 regs were pretty much the rule, at least for the years I flew, and we strove to adhere by those regulations:

Sec. 91.117 Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may
operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4
nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace
area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This
paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a
Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor
designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated
airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).
(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is
greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

http://www.gofir.com/fars/part91/index.htm

We flew one F-14 from Calverton, LI to Miramar, CA entirely in the low-altitude structure once - tacan to tacan (vice via jetways or INS direct) or even cancelling and proceeding VFR when we could. Was one of the more enjoyable days I ever spent flying, and I'd say 98% of it was at 250kts or below - not only because we could do it at that speed but because that was the rule (re: the other 2% - we asked for and received clearance to speed up some for weather or other requirements at times.)

1) there's no way the FAA CAN enforce it, and

2) because of that, it's broken on at least an occasional basis.

I'm a bit surprised that the FAA would take such a cavalier attitute towards this. It was my experience that simply because it was a FAR regulation that it was meant to be adhered to. I would submit that it can be enforced if desired but aircraft and controllers (MY OPINION) likely don't ALL THE TIME because of a "no harm no foul" attitude, as long as it is not abused. Heck...I've been mach 1.2 at 50 feet, but that was in a MOA near Fallon, NV. I've also been anywhere from 260 kts to 350 kts or faster while approaching the field for the overhead break, but that was in the approach/landing environment in a Navy field TCA.

The aforementioned post is a compilation of my own thoughts, opinions, observations and published, established procedures and standards.

Anyhow, apologies for my poorly worded post and I'll strive for better lexicon usage and arrangement in the future.

And I *do* have a fairly good understanding of aviation, thankyewverymuch - so there! :)