...Or another. Interesting discussion, especially the first part about the "greening" of America. There already seems to be some science that may back up that view...
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Forests Could Be Key to Curbing Global Warming
OSLO (Reuters) - Effective control of forest fires may prove crucial in the fight against global warming since blazes from Alaska to Indonesia spew out vast amounts of heat-trapping gases, Canadian foresters said on Thursday.
"Forests are a wild card in the debate" about rising world temperatures, said Brian Stocks, a forest fire expert with the government-run Canadian Forest Service.
---snip---
Trees absorb carbon dioxide as they grow and release it when they burn or rot. Carbon dioxide is also emitted by burning fossil fuels in cars, power plants and factories, and is widely blamed for blanketing the planet and nudging up temperatures.
"Individuals should do everything possible to reduce energy use," Barry Waito, president of the Canadian Forestry Association, said in a statement. But he also urged greater responsibility for managing forests. "Forests will play a central role in the extent of (climate) change future generations face," he said.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20050303/sc_nm/environment_forests_dc--
Some other articles I've read say that even resurgent forests and curbed use of fossil fuels will not stop Global Warming entirely, however. It seems that a certain amount of unavoidable change may already be built into the global feedback system. If it doesn't run away into a "Day After Tomorrow" or even worse, a "Venus" effect, it does seem that a greener world will be a strong possibility.
As for governance and regional/local issues, I think the subjects addressed in your posts above tie in well with some of the things I talked about in my posts below. In a nutshell, some cities and regions are probably going to fare much better than others. Those that do not or can not stabilize themselves for lack of adequate basic resources, are probably going to end up as the "ghost towns" as mentioned above.
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=266&topic_id=401&mesg_id=408NEOBuckeye Donating member (1000+ posts)
Sun Mar-13-05 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I think problems and solutions will ultimately come down to states/regions
State and Local leaders are already starting to realize that they can't count on the Federal Government to help them out of a bind. If anything, the Federal Government has become a hinderance to implementing real solutions.
Witness Montana's Governor, a Republican, who is asking for his state's National Guard troops to be returned home to help fight fires this summer. I've heard that the Governors of Washington, Oregon and Idaho have asked for their troops back as well, for similar concerns and reasons. A lot of good fighting wars on the other side of the world does for you, when your state is burning up in forest fires, or potentially about to be smashed by earthquakes and tsunamis.
In Akron-Summit County, Ohio, where I live, both the Mayor of Akron and the Summit County Executive have stated that they will do whatever is necessary to keep this region afloat, even as the Federal Government and the GOP-Dominated Ohio State Government cut back on funding for Local and County governments. There's also some efforts underway right now, however slowly they may be inching forward, to bring the entire Northeastern Ohio region together into some sort of Regional Government. Similar discussions in the Midwest and Northeast are taking place in Buffalo and Cincinnati.
I think these efforts will see a major boost and bear fruit in the next few years, as peak oil and the energy crisis become ever more painfully obvious. Sen. McCain has talked about the U.S. lack of Naval presence in the Pacific. This is a clear sign of the Federal Government's overreaching, and the Bush Regime is very largely to blame for it. A National Government that can't even afford to police its' own coastlines is fast in danger of becoming irrelevant, if it doesn't first collapse from its' own mismanagement into bankruptcy.
Where the National Federal Government fails, look for State, Regional and Local governments and cooperative/trade agreements to step in. IMHO this is a highly probable outcome in places like the Pacific Northwest (i.e. Cascadia), the Upper Midwest/Great Lakes states, as well as the New England states, mostly because of access to fresh water and the very basic natural resources necessary for survival, even when and where alternative energy should fail.
Likewise, I think the Southern and and Southwestern states/regions are going to have the most painful and catastrophic process of readjustment. The Southwest is experiencing "Peak Water" right now with maxed-out water tables thanks to suburbs sprawling out into the desert in all directions. Let's also not overlook the fact that these areas have little arable land to grow food, which will be important as shipping/supply lines break down. Top that off with regularly 100+F temperatures, and the coming power shortages, and Cities like Phoenix and Las Vegas are going to become very uncomfortable, very, very soon. "Water Wars" here are a likely possibility.
I mentioned the South for a much different reason: Flourishing forms of extremist Christianity, resurgent Racism (as if it ever went away), and the ages old, unhealed wounds from their Civil War defeat. The Energy Crisis is going to bring all these things back to the surface and out into the open again in a very dire way, as people think "Doomsday" and "Rapture Time". This is the region most likely to see ideologues rise into positions of power and authority, as well as conflicts between churches, towns and even states based upon differing views of fundamentalist Christianity. Eventually, there may be a re-emergence of the old Confederacy, though ironically, it probably won't happen until the original grievances have been mostly resolved.
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1307217&mesg_id=1307767&page=NEOBuckeye Donating member (1000+ posts)
Sun Mar-13-05 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Peak Water is very real -- Water Tables falling rapidly in Southwest US
Edited on Sun Mar-13-05 05:59 AM by NEOBuckeye
One thing that isn't often pointed out in the Peak Oil discussions is that catastrophe isn't going to cut equally across the board. There are some areas are going to naturally fare better than others. And some will fare far worse than others. A lot of it is going to come down to access to the very basic resources necessary to sustain life, most namely WATER, but also arable land -- enough of it to grow crops and food for the local population. And even then, you will likely experience some "thinning" of the population through poor nutrition (not enough food to go around) and disease until a balance is reached.
Consider Phoenix, Tucson, Las Vegas and Reno. All of them are surging boomtowns, and are dramatically expanding, receiving hundreds and even thousands of new people each month, even now, in the current-though-very-troubled petroleum-driven economy. When the Oil/Energy Crisis hits, however, these cities, like others throughout the US, will be utterly devestated by insanely high energy costs. But not only that, because they are situated in the DESERT, they will not be able to in any meaningful way convert to agrarian/self-sufficient models.
People forget that The West is an arid DESERT, not the grassy, more temperate Great Plains. And besides, where will they draw their water? The water tables in much of desert region of the Western US have been ridiculously overtaxed by growth and new development. With very limited rains or other sources of fresh water, "Peak Water" is already quite imminent in this region. Many people just haven't realized it yet, as they continue to move out into the desert to construct their oversized McMansions.
http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?id=4147&method=fullMy prediction is that the Southwest -- Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and Texas to a significant degree, will probably fare the worst in the Energy Crisis, even if they do manage to rig up Solar Electric. Transportation -- getting people and goods from place to place in these sprawling cities and spread-out regions -- is going to be a challenge on par with obtaining water and growing food. Toss in the infamous heat, and you have areas in which only the hardiest of the hardy will survive.
The West is destined to become the most hostile region of the North American continent. If I lived there now, I think I'd be making some serious plans to get outta there, pronto, and go someplace green, like Cascadia. Portland/Washington/Northern California will by no means be a paradise either, but they do seem to have plenty of fresh water and a climate that will support local food production. I'd say the same for the Upper Midwest/Great Lakes and New England regions, though winter will probably be their biggest challenge.
I'd generally try and stay away from the "Bible Belt" of The South, given that Right Wing Fundamentalist Christianity will probably have a great deal of people there expecting the Rapture. There's no telling how these people will react when the misery hits with a vengeance, and they aren't immediately zipped up into Heaven.
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At any rate, it seems that we will shortly begin to receive our "answers" to many of these issues. I am thinking, as some have suggested, that Peak Oil actually hit back in 2001, and that we have just been riding the "plateau" of production for the past few years. We wouldn't be feeling the pinch in production so badly even now, if it weren't for the modernization of China and India.
What I'm thinking is that there will probably be an economic crash of some sort
this year, and it's probably only a matter of months or weeks away. What follows is some pretty nasty political upheaval that will probably put the Bush Regime and the GOP-dominated Congress under a tremendous amount of pressure and scrutiny by an American public too angry to be charmed into a stupor by Faux News anymore. I don't know how it will all play out, but I hardly think that we'll be going to Iran.
The cracks in the "great machine" are imminent, however, and the conditions are ripe for a breakdown in the old structure. Indeed, we can see many of these things being foreshadowed now. I think much of this will become more readily obvious once Pluto moves beyond Sagittarius into Capricorn in 2008.
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