Reply #27: Nations are a reality, sucky or not. [View All]

[Deep13]

"Some guy just said it is okay to deny healthcare to undocumented aliens, that includes children..."

We deny it to citizens every day. There is no national healthcare system in this country like there is in just about every other one including Mexico. I don't see why American taxpayers should foot the bill for people who have no right to be here anyway.

"American's this American's that, citizens this citizens that....FUCK THAT! I am sick of that designation."

Nevertheless, that changes nothing. People are people and people, being people, are consumers. The economy that depends on ever-growing cheap labor and ever ravenous consumption of resources cannot be sustained. How many Americans are enough? 300 million? 400M? (predicted for 2050) A billion? All that cheap labor has to live somewhere and eat something so we will need more cheap labor and energy to take care of them? Every other industrial nation has a stable population. It is only our greed that makes us different. The people who want to let everyone in for cheap labor are the same ones that bitch about NAFTA! Insteading of sending jobs to cheap labor, we are bringing cheap labor to the jobs.

Nations exist because of sovereignty. Sovereignty is control over a particular chunk of real estate and its people. Possession ultimately is the right to exclude others.There is probably a better way to do things, but as along as nations do exist those nations have a right to protect their borders and their citizens. Jesus! do you expect to be able to sneak into Holland and find an underthetable job and be granted Dutch citizenship just because you evaded justice for ten years?

"One think I can tell ALL who think that we need to protect our citizens first.....you go down that road there is no coming back until it is just one class, one belief, one set of values, one skin color, one orientation."

That's horseshit. The slippery slope is a logically invalid argument. Just because a particular standard is set does not mean another one must be. If people with no legal status are allowed to remain in this country what is to stop us from sliding back into slavery? (Slippery slope again.)

"'I'm an Amerikuhn..don't that count for somethin'?' Well FUCK NO IT DOESN'T."

And with that we loose the swing voters and most of the Democrats. I think we should come out of our holier-than-thou towers and take our cues from the people instead of deriding them for not thinking like us. Give you an example. Here in Ohio in what some call the heartland, about half of Kerry voters also voted to ban gay marriage for all time. Like it or not, these are the people you need to impress to take the country back from the corporate whores.

"I'm sickened by paint chip eating Republicans and brown nosing hand wringing Democrats in Washington."

At least we agree on something. Those hand-wringers, however, seem to be on your side for this issue.

"Because I can't imagine any Democrat taking on positions that deny people rights."

Rights for some invariably means the denial of rights to others. The right to be free from racial discrimination obviously (and rightly) denies the right to discriminate to others. In other cases it is more of a trade-off. The right of a landowner to exclude people from his or her property denies others the right to travel over open country. Frankly, I think that sucks. Granting rights to aliens who have sneaked into this country is unfair to those who have worked for citizenship and those who have worked to create a liveable wage for the middle class. It devalues citizenship and the law. No rights and no freedom is possiple without law to enforce it. Instead of standing up for crime, the Senate Ds ought to be standing up for those whole play by the rules.

People who tresspass into this country don't have any rights to deny. If they want rights, get a passport and come in through the normal way. I suppose you think that anyone who would deny a burglar the right to live in his house should not be a Democrat either. "But look, he fixed the sink and did the dishes!" So fucking what? He is still a burglar. Is it harsh to prosecute illegal aliens as felons? Considering that they have no legal status in this country and, therefore, may be held indefinitely without any legal recourse, I think prosecution is a humane compromise.

P.S. To clarify, I am writing only about those who sneak into the country, not about those who are "illegal" because of technical problems like an expired VISA. Those people were invited here, came with full disclosure of who they are and may very well be permitted to stay under present law once their legal issues are resolved.